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Bought a boat. Got a Frankenstein I'm afraid.

ahove89

New member
I bought a 1997 model boat. Old owner told me the "new" engine had been put into the old engine case. The engine mount to the boat reads as a 60 hp engine. I found a sticker on the engine for the timing and it's marked as a 1977, 75 hp engine. They took it to a boat shop (sounds like a shade tree mechanic) and they did the swapping of the power unit. Then they kept it for a year and a half. Told the old owner of the boat that they had it ready and wanted to take it out one more time to confirm the fix. They called the next morning and said they couldn't fix it, there was no charge and to come get it.

My question is, they appear to have used the lower unit from the 1997, 60 hp lower unit, will that be the same as the 1977, 75 hp unit?
 
Model # on the 97 midsection is ?----A 97 lower unit does NOT bolt onto a 1977 motor.------Driveshaft spline is different.-----And a 77 engine does NOT work on a 97 midsection.----Any pictures?
 
Model # on the 97 midsection is ?----A 97 lower unit does NOT bolt onto a 1977 motor.------Driveshaft spline is different.-----And a 77 engine does NOT work on a 97 midsection.----Any pictures?

Model # on the 97 midsection is ?----A 97 lower unit does NOT bolt onto a 1977 motor.------Driveshaft spline is different.-----And a 77 engine does NOT work on a 97 midsection.----Any pictures?
Model number is J60TLEUA.
 
This could well be a case of an older motor with a much newer ID sticker.-----So yes a few more posts and pictures are allowed.----Pictures will sort this out in just seconds !
 
This could well be a case of an older motor with a much newer ID sticker.-----So yes a few more posts and pictures are allowed.----Pictures will sort this out in just seconds !
If this will help any, I found only one number on the cylinder head. 320389
 
On the exhaust SIDE of the motor is there 1 cover ( 20 bolts ) or a stack of 3 covers ?----What color is the engine block?-----What color is the midsection?------Does it have power trim / tilt?
 
It is a dark blue. Almost a metallic blue. It does have power trim.
1000018693.jpg
 
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That is definitely a 77 powerhead.---Maybe just a swap to get the newer power trim / tilt.-----I would not turn the key until it is all checked out !!!----Post the actual compression values.
 
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I put it into gear on the controller. I was able to turn the flywheel by hand several revelutions (struggling with the compression stroke) and the prop was turning.

How should I do a compression test with out cranking?
 
Now that it has stopped raining ( I live in western KY) I was able to get on the boat some. I ran the compression test. Did it dry. I got 90 across the board with only pulling the plug on the one being checked. I [kicks] and giggles, I pulled all the plugs and hit it one more time. As I checked for spark. The compression with them removed was about 93 to 94 psi. But also got no spark either when testing.
 
You said you have no spark. No spark is not a timing issue. If timing was off you would have spark at the wrong time.
 
So long as the flywheel is turning, the stator would power the CDI box and the trigger (the arm that moves as you change throttle position) would still fire the CDI. it would all just happen at the wrong time.

Now if the engine is cranking too slowly then maybe not. Remove all 3 spark plugs, shoot some fogging oil in the cylinders & try again with the plugs removed. Maybe the cyljnder walls are all dry & engine is cranking slow.

Max timing (somewhere around 30 degrees BEFORE TDC ) is set with engine running in gear under load (as in with a test prop or driving boat which becomes a 2 person job) at a specified RPM (3000 if I recall). There is no minimum timing specification. Idle speed is adjusted with the idle stop screw while all 3 throttle plates are fully closed. This idle stop screw stops the trigger arm as the timing retards. In other words, idle timing which may be AFTER TDC is what controls idle speed.

This ignition system is self powering. If it is functioning properly, the engine could be 100% disconnected from the boat electrical (battery cables & big red plug), you could rope start it & have no way to shut it off. So, a short to ground, failed key switch or emergency stop lanyard (if installed) could be the problem. 1st & easiest test is disconnect the big red connector & short across the solenoid to ground. If spark now, problem is forward of engine (If this is you, jump to end of answer). If no spark, problem is ignition component.

Do not go out & buy parts because of the following!!!!!
1) OMC most often CDI failure. Can kill 1 or multiple cylinders. Most often fail after sitting over winter.
2) Ignition coil next but will kill only 1 cylinder. Almost unheard of for all to fail simultaneously. If 1 cylinder is dead, swap that coil with one that fires to confirm problem follows.
3) Trigger, senses magnetic pulses from inner hub of flywheel to fire the correct cylinder. Magnets have N & S poles. This is how it knows which cylinder to fire when. Can kill 1 or all cylinders on a 3 cyl engine. I don't believe it can kill 2 of 3 but I may be wrong.
4) Stator, has 2 sets of windings. Yellow wires go to rectier for battery charging only. If yellow side fails engine will run. Other side charges CDI.
5) Flywheel magnets can loose their magnatism, break or depending on design come loose & move. If key shears (typically from improper torque or hard prop impact) timing would be off but spark would be there if tight enough that starter can spin engine. Actually, if the flywheel were to spin on crankshaft freely you would still have spark from starter spinning it while it eats itself & crankshaft to destruction.

I did not include the possibility of wire damage under the cowling but it is certainly possible. Your 1st picture where you are pointing appears to show corrosion & mouse **** residue. Take a look at damaged insulation or wires chewed thru.

If after disconnection of red plug you have spark: This is a pontoon. Rodents & particularly muskrats like to sit on top of right pontoon & eat the wire harness running forward. Check it for condition.
 
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So long as the flywheel is turning, the stator would power the CDI box and the trigger (the arm that moves as you change throttle position) would still fire the CDI. it would all just happen at the wrong time.

Now if the engine is cranking too slowly then maybe not. Remove all 3 spark plugs, shoot some fogging oil in the cylinders & try again with the plugs removed. Maybe the cyljnder walls are all dry & engine is cranking slow.

Max timing (somewhere around 30 degrees BEFORE TDC ) is set with engine running in gear under load (as in with a test prop or driving boat which becomes a 2 person job) at a specified RPM (3000 if I recall). There is no minimum timing specification. Idle speed is adjusted with the idle stop screw while all 3 throttle plates are fully closed. This idle stop screw stops the trigger arm as the timing retards. In other words, idle timing which may be AFTER TDC is what controls idle speed.

This ignition system is self powering. If it is functioning properly, the engine could be 100% disconnected from the boat electrical (battery cables & big red plug), you could rope start it & have no way to shut it off. So, a short to ground, failed key switch or emergency stop lanyard (if installed) could be the problem. 1st & easiest test is disconnect the big red connector & short across the solenoid to ground. If spark now, problem is forward of engine (If this is you, jump to end of answer). If no spark, problem is ignition component.

Do not go out & buy parts because of the following!!!!!
1) OMC most often CDI failure. Can kill 1 or multiple cylinders. Most often fail after sitting over winter.
2) Ignition coil next but will kill only 1 cylinder. Almost unheard of for all to fail simultaneously. If 1 cylinder is dead, swap that coil with one that fires to confirm problem follows.
3) Trigger, senses magnetic pulses from inner hub of flywheel to fire the correct cylinder. Magnets have N & S poles. This is how it knows which cylinder to fire when. Can kill 1 or all cylinders on a 3 cyl engine. I don't believe it can kill 2 of 3 but I may be wrong.
4) Stator, has 2 sets of windings. Yellow wires go to rectier for battery charging only. If yellow side fails engine will run. Other side charges CDI.
5) Flywheel magnets can loose their magnatism, break or depending on design come loose & move. If key shears (typically from improper torque or hard prop impact) timing would be off but spark would be there if tight enough that starter can spin engine.

I did not include the possibility of wire damage under the cowling but it is certainly possible. Your 1st picture where you are pointing appears to show corrosion & mouse **** residue. Take a look at damaged insulation or wires chewed thru.

If after disconnection of red plug you have spark: This is a pontoon. Rodents & particularly muskrats like to sit on top of right pontoon & eat the wire harness running forward. Check it for condition.
Will my 1977 model have a CDI box? Maybe thats what they are calling the "power pack"?
 
I went on and changed the rectifier because the wire was gone and the backing was split. I have spark now. I put some premixed fuel to it and I got it running, kind of. It ran about 20 seconds on its own. I got to go in and change all the fuel lines from the quick connect to pump then to the carbs. Had some fuel leaking. When i get that completed, I'll check back and let you know what I got going.

This boat has not been out since 2021. The engine is unknown when it was last out. Supposedly when the old owner had the motor swap done, the motor had been out the summer before. So, that would put the motor last running in 2022 or 2023.
 
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