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Boat wonbt start with key only when the starter is jumped

1stboat

1stboat

Regular Contributor
"I have a 94 5.7 VP Gi. A coup

"I have a 94 5.7 VP Gi. A couple of weeks ago everything was fine. Last time we went out the boat would not start with the key. Tried jumping it from a running car; nothing. My friend came up with the idea of touching the two bolts on the starter solenoid together; viola. It started. What would cause this?

A little history:

...this winter we put a new dash on the boat. I didn't actually do it a friend did. He said he took every wire from the back of each of the gauges and put them right back on when he took the gauges off the old dash and also when he put them back on the new panel. All except the water temperature gauge. He said there was a blue wire coming off of it, but he couldn't remember which post it went on. He apparently picked one and put it on there. I noticed the ignition 20 amp fuse was fried. I then used spare 10, 7.5, and 5 amp mini fuses in its place and they all fried as well. We ran out and bought a 20 amp fuse it didn’t fry. We went out on the boat for the day and it started with the key just fine. The water temperature gauge didn't work the whole time, it’s always worked before this. So I had him put the blue wire on the other post on the back of the water temperature gauge and the fuse on the ignition started blowing every time I turned the key to on. I had him put the wire back to the original post and the fuse stopped blowing. However, I haven't been able to start the boat with the key since.
I replace the key switch. I have also measured the voltages at the key switch. The key switch has three connections; one for battery, one for ignition, and the last one for solenoid. When I measured the voltage on the key switch with the battery on it read 12 v. When I measured the ignition post it read 12 v when I turned the key to the “on” position. Lastly, the solenoid reads 12v when I turn the key past on to attempt to start the boat. So as far as I know the key switch is operating properly. I could be wrong.
I did take the whole starter and solenoid assembly to an auto parts store to get it tested and it passed both the starter and solenoid tests. I then went out and bought a new solenoid anyway. I put it on and hooked up all the wires except the bracket it came on; still nothing. I have since read in another post that the bracket acts as a ground for the starter/solenoid assembly. I’ll have to wait till tomorrow or Wednesday to see it that matters. What other thing can I test, try, or look into to solve this?"
 
"Interesting story. Have you c

"Interesting story. Have you checked the starter relay? (part 26 on the link)


http://www.volvopentastore.com/ENGINE_WIRING_HARNESS_5_7GL/dm/cart_id.928216478- -session_id.576607675--store_id.366--view_id.311933

If you have the Seloc manual for your engine (I assume it is a Chevy V8) you will see that the starting circuit is pretty simple (look at page 10-68) Basically, between the S terminal on the ignition switch and prong 86 on the relay you only have the safety neutral switch and a harness connector. The wire going to prong 86 is supposed to the yellow/red, so check for continuity between the S terminal at the ignition switch and the wire connector at prong 87. If all OK, then either the relay is toasted, or one the other 3 wires connected to the relay is either wrong or connected to the wrong terminal.

From the 4 wires connected to the relay, the one going to prong 86 comes from the ignition switch (yellow/red); the one connected to prong 85 goes to ground (black); the one connected to prong 30 comes from the large post in the starter where the + from the battery is connected (red); and the one connected to prong 87 (red) goes to the S terminal in the solenoid valve.

I don't think your starting problem is too difficult to solve. After you have solved it, you may want to re-check the water temperature gauge wiring again, this time either with a proper drawing or tracking the water temperature wire from the engine to the dashboard. After you know where it goes, then connect there your gauge wire (check the back of the gauge for proper connections as well)."
 
"I did not manage to open the

"I did not manage to open the link, too lazy to go by proxy, but.
If that engine has a start assist relay prior to the solenoid, that relay is taking ground from the alternator field! This to prevent the starter from engaging when engine is running."
 
"El,

I do have the seloc ma

"El,

I do have the seloc manual, but its at a friend's house. I took the relay in to the auto parts store with me to see if they could test it (part 26 on the link you are talking about), but the guy there didn't know how to do it. I've tested relays before; troubleshooting electrical gremlins there. I know there are two connections that have to be jumped and there's suppose to be a clicking noise, indicating that the relay is working.

The yellow wire with a red stripe is connected right, I believe, or I would not be getting voltage to it when the key was turned.

I will follow your steps and let you know how it turns out."
 
"The picture shows the prongs

"The picture shows the prongs and schematic of a typical relay. Basically, the coil goes between the prongs 85 and 86, 30 is input voltage from battery, 87 is normally closed when the relay coil is energized, and 87A is normally open. In your application: 85 goes to ground (black); 86 to the S in the ignition switch (yellow/red)-{NOTE: you can also connect 86 to ground and 85 to the S in the ignition switch); 30 to the large post in the starter (red); and 87 to the solenoid S (red/yellow).

282493.jpg


To test the relay is simple. With an ohm meter, you should get the resistance of the coil between 85 and 86; continuity between 30 and 87A, and open circuit between 30 and 87. If you apply power from a battery between 85 and 86 you will hear a click, then you can measure open between 30 and 87A, and close between 30 and 87. "
 
"El,

Thanks for the explana

"El,

Thanks for the explanation. I've read it a couple of times already. I tested what you explained before I read it and the starter engaged with the key in the on position like normal. I will replace my relay today and let you know tomorrow if it was it or not.

Thanks again!"
 
"El,

The relay does not app

"El,

The relay does not appear to be the issue. I think I might have figured out the problem though. I think its the connection between the yellow/red wire from the switch to the relay itself.

I forgot to mention earlier that we also re-upholstered the whole boat this winter. When I mentioned that everything worked fine two weeks ago was because we took it on a trial run with no upholstery in the boat. We did put on the bare right side wood backing that the upholstery is stapled on, to be able to mount the shift lever. When we put the upholstery on the wood the wood and remounted the shift lever we had some tight fit issues. I'm guessing that we might of knocked a connection loose in one of the wires that connect the shift lever to the starter relay. Do you happen to have any diagrams of the shift lever connections and how it connects to the starting circuit. I know that I tried to start my boat in gear before and it thought I was having electrical issues then because it wouldn't start. Turns out the boat won't start in gear. Maybe I knocked that connection loose and the boat thinks its in gear so its not sending the start signal to the engine.

I checked that yellow/red wire at the starter solenoid itself. The solenoid relay is not getting the signal to engage the starter. The yelow/red wire on the starter solenoid gets no voltage at all. It doesn't matter what position the key is in.

Also, I did some checking with my MM and found out the following:

the B terminal on the switch gets 12v at all three key positions.
the I terminal on the switch gets 12v only when the key is turned to the on position.
The S terminal gets 12v when turned to on or start positon."
 
"Your ignition switch is fine,

"Your ignition switch is fine, and so is the 20 A fuse. So it looks like you are on the right track and the problem is either with the safety neutral switch or one of the wires (yellow/red) going to it. The schematic you are looking for is on page 10-68 of the Seloc manual.

Check your e-mail."
 
"I stayed clear of this thread

"I stayed clear of this thread until now as it has gained my curiosity.

Questions:
Engine fires while starter is running only? (jumped or otherwise???)
If so, then the relay IS working! This is it's job to provide full 12 vdc power during cranking... Yes/No?

Engine will not run once key switch momentary "start mode" is released? Yes/No?
If so, this may indicate that the relay is taking the ignition-start-by-pass out of the loop after key is returned to "run" position AND that there is no normal resisted voltage to the coil via ignition switch and ignition circuit! .... Yes/No? (again, that is the relay's job to take this out of the loop, and return the circuit to the normal resisted ignition coil voltage)

I'd be looking at the normal "ignition on" circuit!
Do you have power to the ignition (coil) when the key is set to "ignition on" position?

A safety Neutral Switch should affect "Start Circuit" only..... Yes/No?
It does on all boats that I have worked on.
IOW's, it does not affect "Ingition" mode! If it did, an engine would not run unless the shift selector was in "Neutral"!
A properly working Neutral Safety switch will affect starter motor mode only... not ignition!

Have you tried pulling your main engine harness/hull harness connection apart?
This harness includes your starter circuit as well as all else for the engine.
This will/should be clamped to the transom somewhere.
You may need to clean all terminals.
If you do not wish to pull each connector from the plastic housing and inspect them/replace as needed....., at least spray a corrosion blocker on the fittings and pull this fitting apart and push back together....... apart/back together... and so on..... and repeat several times.
Often these connections can become somewhat corroded and loose continuity.
On some of the older boats..... especially salty ones, I recommend replacing these fittings.

."
 
"El,

Thanks for your email.

"El,

Thanks for your email. Soon as I get off of work I'll be tracing the yellow\red wire from the ignition switch through the shift lever to the starter solenoid.

Again, I'll post what I find out."
 
"El,

I found a wire that wa

"El,

I found a wire that was not connected. When I plugged it in there appeared to be progress because I could hear the starter push out when I turned the key to the start position. When I put everything back together still no go with the key. I can hear the relay clicking when the key is turned to the start position, but the starter does not engage.

Also, yesterday I thought I might have gotten the ignition and solenoid wires crossed so I put each one on the post the other was on. After I did that the fuel pumps only came on when the key was in the start position. They would not energize in the on position. I put the wires back to where they were originally and today the fuel pumps energized in the on position like normal. So I thought the engine was going to turn over, but it didn't.

I looked for the wires that control the shift lever and whether its in neutral or not, but they must be plugged in in the handle because I can not see where they connect.

I'm going to check the input voltage to the three prongs in the relay housing with the relay not inserted to see what effect the key has on them."
 
"El,

You won't believe

"El,

You won't believe my luck. I finally got the manual from my friend and it stops at 10-18. The rest of the book somehow got lost. I looked in the table of contents; wouldn't you know it those are the parts in need the most for this issue. .... when it rains it pours."
 
"Well, what can I say. Accordi

"Well, what can I say. According to Murphy's law, chances are the next breakdown you have will be covered in the portion of the book you lost. So if you want to beat Murphy, maybe it is time for you to get another copy of the manual...
biggrin.gif
"
 
Tell me about it.

What do

Tell me about it.

What do you think about an online manual service? I've seen those as well while looking for the hard copy of the manual online.
 
"I haven't tried the onlin

"I haven't tried the online versions, but it seems they charge either $34.95 or $38.95 for a 3 year subscription which allows you unlimited access to a single make/model/year engine/drive system. They are probably good and more up to date, but I am sticking to the printed version. Another matter would be if they had the manuals on CD ROM or DVD."
 
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