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Bilge Pump - Always on?

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Bebopalula

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When I had the work done on my engine and outdrive they installed a new bilge pump (not that I needed one nor was I asked beforehand). I noticed that after a heavy rain there was about 8 inches of standing water in the bilge. When I checked the dual battery switch it was in the off position. After switching it to No.1 battery on, the bilge pump activated and completely evacuated the water. Shouldn't the bilge pump be hot wired so it's on even if the rest of the electrical system isn't energized?
 
Normally, the primary* bilge pump should be directly wired to the battery with a fuse. ABYC codes stipulate that the fuse on a wire connected directly to a battery (except wires to battery switches and the starter) should be within 7 inches the battery. If your pump is an automatic on/off pump, this is the line that should go directly to the battery via a fuse. That pump will normally also have a direct on lead. This lead should be run to a switch at the helm to a fused feed. The fuses used should be the value that the manufacturer specifies. The wire gauge should be per the standard tables, i.e., gauge depends on the pump draw and the total wire length (round trip, i.e., +12 feed plus ground lengths).

If your mechanic did what you said he did... find another mechanic. He put your boat at risk.


*Primary pump. My 23 ft DeeV I/O has a 500 gph pump wired with an external float switch ( I dislike pumps with internal auto-on... I had one fail during IRENE.) My boat also has a 2000 GPH pump with an external float switch ( I prefer the ones in cages) with the float switch set an inch higher than the water level turn on point for the 500 gph pump. It is this second 2000 GPH pump with its external switch that saved myboat during IRENE when the primary with its built in "electronic" switch failed to come on. A few words about my boat... It is an open cuddy cabin style boat. The deck at the stern is actually below the waterline. Every drop of water that falls on the boat needs pumped out. The boat, while normally fully covered, has a long expanse of canvas ( navy top, side curtains, cockpit cover) that would not survive a major storm, so not wishing to buy/repair canvas covers on a regular basis, I remove all canvas for major storms (gale+ or bad Nor'easters).... Hence the need for a good bilge pump system. To round out the picture... While the boat is a single engine, it has two batteries, a main start duty one and a "house", dual purpose ( deep cycle/start) battery. My electronics and the primary bilge pump are permanently wired to the house battery while the 2000 GPH OS ( OH S$$T!!) pump is wired to the main (start) battery. I've used this system on all my boats for 50 years. Several times, the house battery was run dry and the 2000 GPH took over, the last time was during SANDY, with the boat in the water less than 2 miles from "Ground Zero" in Ortley Beach NJ. There was still more than enough charge in the main battery to crank and start my 5.7L MERC.
 
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Bebopalula said:
When I had the work done on my engine and outdrive they installed a new bilge pump (not that I needed one nor was I asked beforehand). I noticed that after a heavy rain there was about 8 inches of standing water in the bilge.
1..... When I checked the dual battery switch it was in the off position.
2.... After switching it to No.1 battery on, the bilge pump activated and completely evacuated the water.
3..... Shouldn't the bilge pump be hot wired so it's on even if the rest of the electrical system isn't energized?
Click to expand...

1..... As it should be when the boat is unattended.

2.... If switching your MBSS to either #1 or #2 powers up your float switch, they have done you a disservice by wiring this incorrectly.
They should have known better! :mad::mad:

3..... Typically, this would not be called "hot wired" but rather an "Un-interruptable" connection.
But yes, you are correct! Your main bilge pump's "float switch" power should come from an Un-Interruptable power source.

IMO, the best location for this will be at the #2 terminal at the rear of your MBSS (I.E., your House Bank... the largest bank) and of course properly fused.
This is a permanent connection that will not cause any confusion during future battery R&R.
It also prevents this small terminal connecting point from "corrosion" that will otherwise be seen from a direct battery terminal connection.


Some of these shops seem to think that they can perform Marine Electrical correctly. :rolleyes: The shop that you used does not!



.
 
RicardoMarine said:
1..... As it should be when the boat is unattended.

2.... If switching your MBSS to either #1 or #2 powers up your float switch, they have done you a disservice by wiring this incorrectly.
They should have known better! :mad::mad:

3..... Typically, this would not be called "hot wired" but rather an "Un-interruptable" connection.
But yes, you are correct! Your main bilge pump's "float switch" power should come from an Un-Interruptable power source.

IMO, the best location for this will be at the #2 terminal at the rear of your MBSS (I.E., your House Bank... the largest bank) and of course properly fused.
This is a permanent connection that will not cause any confusion during future battery R&R.
It also prevents this small terminal connecting point from "corrosion" that will otherwise be seen from a direct battery terminal connection.


Some of these shops seem to think that they can perform Marine Electrical correctly. :rolleyes: The shop that you used does not!



.
Click to expand...

Good points Rick... Re: your comment on shops and electrical... I work a couple days a week at a local WEST MARINE. Last Saturday had a customer come in complaining about how a local dealer had rewired his twin outboard stepped hull boat.

1) All three batteries were wired in parallel with just one master on/off switch.
2) New fuse blocks installed in know "wet" areas were not IP67 rated but "open"... (clip in fuse... no covers)
3) the transducer for his high ticket multi view brand new sonar was installed thru the hull well aft. Transducer only works at very low speeds. Proper location for a thruhull on a stepped hull is just before the first step, otherwise the transducer is running in highly aerated water!

Bill for this "work", not including parts was in the thousands of dollars. Work was done at the dealer's shop while boat was on a trailer.
 
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Well guys, I can see I'm not alone when it comes to victimization by inept mechanics. I paid a visit to the marina today to check the bilge connection because we had quite a downpour the day before yesterday here on Long Island. Low and behold, the rugs from the middle of the deck and back were wet indicating the rain filled the hull and probably almost sunk her. But when I checked the pump today it was wired to go on with the batteries switched off. So I guess they must have seen the boat listing aft and then realized what they did wrong and fixed it. Now I'm worried that possibly the starter motor and alternator were under water for a day. This place has me taking anxiety pills.
 
There is almost always a tiny bit of oil in a bilge. This will float on any water on the bilge. Check the inside of the transom near the drive and see if there is a high water mark from the oil there...
 
Bebopalula said:
Well guys, I can see I'm not alone when it comes to victimization by inept mechanics. I paid a visit to the marina today to check the bilge connection (you mean bilge pump??)

But when I checked the pump today it was wired to go on with the batteries switched off.
How and where did they connect it?

So I guess they must have seen the boat listing aft and then realized what they did wrong and fixed it. Now I'm worried that possibly the starter motor and alternator were under water for a day.
If you suspect that the starter motor became wet... document it, and leave a copy with them.
Often a starter motor that's become wet won't show signs of damage for a week or more.
Click to expand...


Do you have a Bilge Pump and separate float switch, or an integrated pump/float switch?
FYI.... the integrated float switch pumps are problematic. A separate float switch does a better job, IMO.

Either way, it's not the pump that requires un-interrupted power.... it's the Float Switch that requires it.

And please say NO to any direct battery connections (other than your battery Positive and Negative cables) and avoid the ugly Rat's Nest if possible.

0.jpg


We all have an ideal location for Un-interrupted power.... and it's right here as #1 and #2 terminals.

Switch-Back.jpg


The "Common" terminal is a great location for Interruptable power.



.
 
Rick, I didn't check how it was wired but the pump has a separate float switch. It has wires going into the pump itself and isn't affixed to the surface of the bilge.
 
Bebopalula said:
Approximately how long will a fully charged battery keep the 800GPH bilge pump going before crapping out?
Click to expand...
Bebop, first.... you don't want the float switch to be powered from a single battery. You'll want this to be powered by your HLBB (house load battery bank) of which should be multiple Deep Cycle batteries.

Secondly, as to the question..... preventing your boat from sinking is more important that when/if the bank goes dead.


Thirdly.... if you are slipped, you'll have your O/B Smart Charger active, and won't need to worry about the bank going dead.


Some will install an alarm or buzzer powered at the helm switch for the manual pump function (this is the same schematically)
When/if the float switch activates the pump, this circuit also becomes live..... and will power the alarm/buzzer.
Any passer-byer's will hear it, and will likely walk over to your boat.
With a note on your boat saying: "if anyone hears the alarm/buzzer please call 555-555-1234", you will make a fast trip down to the boat!!!!!



One more thing.... say NO to the Manual/Off/Auto bilge pump switches.
These have no place on any boat that would be stay in the water, unattended.
 

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Thanks again Rick. Just got off the phone with the marina. Complained to them that the float switch isn't secured to the bilge floor. What an expensive comedy of errors this scenario has been. These guys can't do anything right except take my money.
 
Yes, I'm not surprised to hear that.
Perhaps ask for your money back for that portion of the work scope.

Keep in mind that the float switch's elevation must be above the pump's lowest draw-down capability.... otherwise, it may continue to operate the pump.


.
 
The mechanic just returned my call and said he secured the pump and switch to the floor of the bilge and that there would be no charge. I'll have to check to see if he did it right this time, but I have my doubts. Like my mother used to say in despair "Holy Jesus, Mother Of God"!
 
I checked the installation of the switch and pump and the switch is "barely " above the lowest point of the pump. But that isn't the worst of it. Now, there is a
short somewhere blowing the 20 Amp ignition fuse at the helm. There doesn't seem to be an end to this nightmare. My only hope is that I have re-course through the court system and that they truly represent justice for the consumer in cases like this. This marina has had my boat for over 70 days and have billed me for over $5400 in repairs which has been fully paid not counting $1700 for a slip for a partial season from June 6th through October 31st.
 
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