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Alpha One Gen One Shift Cable Binding

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Liberator241

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I have an ‘87 four winns liberator with a 454 and alpha one gen one outdrive. To start off I have replaced the engine in the boat myself along with many many other things and have replaced the impeller a couple times in the 4+ years I’ve owned the boat. After first start up this year I noticed the boat wasn’t getting any water out of the exhaust, dropped the lower unit to find the impeller and housing burnt up. Replaced both the housing/impeller/and the housing base as I’ve done before with no issues. This year after replacing the impeller, I reinstalled the outdrive following everything I’ve read and done in the past. Rotated the lower shift shaft splines clockwise, turn the prop counter clockwise until it locks, holding in place with a bungee cord, paying close attention to the shift shaft making sure it doesn’t spin out of gear while lifting the lower up, everything slides together nicely, the brass shift shoe and foot are seating together as they should. The problem I am having is every time I completely tighten up all of the lower unit nuts and bolts, the shift lever has lots of tension and pops into neutral as soon as I move the lever then will not go back into either forward or reverse. The prop tends to ratchet in one direction or the other and not lock up either way, or spins freely in neutral in both directions. When I get under the outdrive and look up at the brass shift shoe there is absolutely zero clearance between the foot and upper shoe itself. They are very tight together with no up and down movement. If I loosen the nuts to where there is just a little gap between the upper and lower unit, there is then slight clearance between the brass shoe and foot and everything then goes into gear as it should. I have dropped and reinstalled the lower unit more times than I can count the last week and a half with the same results and am nearly sick of it. I have done everything as I know and have read to do and have not made any progress. Was hoping that someone else has ran into this issue before and can help point me in the right direction. I will also add the the boat had no issues shifting before replacing the impeller, and I also replaced the washer that sits at the base of the lower shift shaft splines.
 
What is the thickness of that washer?

It has to be stainless steel and no more that 1/16" (.062")
 
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I am not sure of the thickness off the top of my head. It was one that was on one of the lower unit studs on the sides of the outdrive. I know it was the same or very close to the same as the original. I had the same results with both the old and new washer. The old washer was a bit cone shaped but I can remember it being this way a couple years ago when I previously changed the impeller and everything was working fine before changing the impeller this go around, but decided to replace the washer with one that was nice and flat anyway.
 
Dont decide to do things like that.

The stud washers and the shift shaft bushing washer are TWO DIFFERENT PART NUMBERS. They are not the same
 
Yes, not all of them were the same, I can get a pic in the next day or two once I drop it down again to show you. I chose the one I did because it was much thinner than the others. This boats been through several owners in its time and there’s several nuts bolts etc that’s been replaced and not original. I will double check it though and report back. Assuming that washer is within spec, is there anything else I could check?

And normally I wouldn’t try to short cut it, but after almost two weeks of working on it every night after work trying to get it ready to go on a week long trip, I used what I had on hand trying to get it ready last minute.
 
Only thought is due to install issues possibly incorrectly a few times ans not necessarily because of you,
The Bronze shift arm is bent. Very hard to detect but possible.

My money is on the washer.
You have to meaaure with calipers.
Also look under washer. Should be the shift shaft bishing and I believe a soft washer/ring wich I think kind of seats around seal lips, kind of sunk down flush.
Washer sits on top of all that. Washer is to protect bushing seal from bronze shaft damaging seal
 
That is what I’m leaning towards is the shift arm is bent but didn’t wanna rush and start tearing in to the upper too if there was the possibility of something else being the issue. The bushing and little rubber ring under the metal washer all seems to be intact and in good shape. I can stop and see if the local boat supply house happens to have the exact washer I need in stock or if all else fails I can just order it so I can eliminate that as an issue first.

Is there any way that the shift shaft could’ve accidentally gotten pulled up high enough to where it wouldn’t seat all the way back down but still catch the gears enough to go in forward and reverse with the lower unit removed , but high enough that it makes the brass shift foot shove up into the upper shoe putting it into a bind when everything is tighten up?
 
The washers from the studs are too thick & too small a diameter to bridge the shift shaft bushing correctly.
The brass shoe is hard as he'll. I've seen 1 bend but it's not common. And it can only be bent trying to shove an upper unit onto the bell housing. So if you only puller the lower, no way.
Regarding your last paragraph, there is a hair pin & washer holding the shaft in below the bushing, so NO, not posdible.
 
Droid said:
The washers from the studs are too thick & too small a diameter to bridge the shift shaft bushing correctly.
The brass shoe is hard as he'll. I've seen 1 bend but it's not common. And it can only be bent trying to shove an upper unit onto the bell housing. So if you only puller the lower, no way.
Regarding your last paragraph, there is a hair pin & washer holding the shaft in below the bushing, so NO, not posdible.
Click to expand...
Yes, I have seen/ replaced dozens. Keep many good used one in my inventory!!
 
I’ll give a new washer a shot, with the old washer being cone shaped, would that not have given the brass shift foot the room it needed to move freely? Or would that washer being that shape itself put it into a bind?
 
The washer should be flat.... Also make sure the splines, both the bronze shift arm and the shift shaft are a good slip fit with no binding. Look into bronze arm splines and make sure its clear of crud, built up grease etc maybe use small screw driver and poke inside to be sure its clear.

I cannot begin to remember how many lower unit drops I have done over the years only to find someone before me lost the washer as it was missing or it was cone shaped as you mentioned. I have replaced many for those reasons.
 
I understand it should be flat, it’s just not making sense to me what could be causing the shift cable to get it a bind, why it’s getting that pressure on the brass shoe. Too thick of a washer makes perfect sense, but when it was working perfectly fine before with the old washer which in theory would make the brass foot sit lower than it is now, makes me question why it was still jamming up into the upper shoe. I did take a pick and paper towel and twisted it up into the foot to remove any old grease. I also took an 11/32 12 point socket which seems to fit the lower shift shaft splines perfectly and I pick it up and set it down in each groove to make sure nothing was catching there if that makes sense and it wasn’t. I reapplied a little 2 4 C grease on the shift shaft splines and I can watch the splines slide into the brass foot nicely as I’m lifting the lower unit up so I don’t believe anything is catching there. I will stop and grab a new washer today and replace it and let everyone know my results. Sorry if I seem to be shooting any advice down, I’m really not I just feel like I’ve done everything 30 times at this point and haven’t had any luck lol
 
Just to clarify, did you pull the upper off the transom or just drop the lower?
With the correct washer (flat, not bent) there is a bit of vertical freeplay in that brass shoe. BUT in your case zero clearance/vertical free play.
 
Droid said:
Just to clarify, did you pull the upper off the transom or just drop the lower?
With the correct washer (flat, not bent) there is a bit of vertical freeplay in that brass shoe. BUT in your case zero clearance/vertical free play.
Click to expand...
I only dropped the lower unit to replace the impeller. Everything was shifting good prior to this. And correct, there is not any clearance/play between the brass foot and shoe.
 
Liberator241 said:
I am not sure of the thickness off the top of my head. It was one that was on one of the lower unit studs on the sides of the outdrive. I know it was the same or very close to the same as the original. I had the same results with both the old and new washer. The old washer was a bit cone shaped but I can remember it being this way a couple years ago when I previously changed the impeller and everything was working fine before changing the impeller this go around, but decided to replace the washer with one that was nice and flat anyway.
Click to expand...
Bet the lower wasn’t in fully fwd when you put the two halves together. Been there done that.

Also are you using OEM water pumps ? In my experience on a gen 1 the OEM lasted 2 x even the good aftermarket’s like Sierra
 
I’m very confident it’s completely in forward. It’s locked in forward when I tighten everything up. Go up to the lever at the helm and as soon as you pull back into neutral it’s goes to neutral then won’t find forward or reverse after that.
 
Liberator241 said:
I’m very confident it’s completely in forward. It’s locked in forward when I tighten everything up. Go up to the lever at the helm and as soon as you pull back into neutral it’s goes to neutral then won’t find forward or reverse after that.
Click to expand...
So with the drive off it cycled through R/N/F ok? Its only about 90 degree turn on the drive shift shaft to go through all three.

I think you need to pull the drive and make sure drive is shift ok by it self - locks both CCW and CW depending on gear, and see if shifter moves the rod and swivel shaft appropriately.

Did you do any other work while it was off? I didnt fully seat the bushing in bellhousing where the swivel shaft goes and it put just enough drag that i couldnt shift on the water but could on dry land....
 
Yes it goes through all the gears with the lower off. Turn the shaft clockwise for forward, prop locks counterclockwise. Prop free spins in neutral. Spin the spline shaft counter clockwise for reverse, prop locks clockwise. Prop stays locked in forward with everything tightened up, until I move the shift lever at the steering wheel, then it goes to neutral and won’t go all the way into reverse or forward.
 
You said in post #8 above: The bushing and little rubber ring under the metal washer all seems to be intact and in good shape.
*What "bushing & little rubber ring" under the metal washer are you referring to?

To be clear, the shift shaft bushing #49 treads into the gearcase. It contains a seal #50 that seals the splined shift shaft....Then a rubber washer #51 sits in the hollow of the bushing directly on the seal.....Then the stainless washer #52 goes on last. It lays directly on the shoulders of the shift shaft bushing as in metal to metal contact. As said earlier, it is thin & the diameter of the shift shaft bushing.

In post #3 you said: I am not sure of the thickness off the top of my head. It was one that was on one of the lower unit studs on the sides of the outdrive. Why would you swap washers? This is your problem as Ghost said in post #4

There is NO "bushing & little rubber ring". Perhaps you are using the incorrect nomenclature? The washer contacts the shoulder of the shift shaft bushing. NOTHING goes on top of the washer!

Question: Did you replace the shift shaft bushing #49 & #50 (these 2 are purchased/serviced as a unit) during the event but perhaps fail to disclose this fact?
*If YES, the bushing from an outboard is different but I believe it would indeed thread in but it has a different upper shoulder area that I think could cause this problem.
*IF NO, then everything from #50 & down must still be correct.

You say it shifted fine prior & you DID NOT pull the upper off the bell housing. So there is in my opinion NO way the shift shoe could be bent upwards causing the shaft to be forced down. TBH, I've seen 1 bent over the years & can't imagine how the gorilla could exert that much force.

You are on day 4 of posting here & I don't know how much time prior but summer is clicking away. REMOVE THE DAMN LOWER END & FIND YOUR ISSUE BEFORE IT SNOWS.
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As I’ve said I have dropped it close to 30 times trying to get it right. Just in the last two weeks. I also work full time and raising a 16 month old. And the rubber ring and bushing I’m referring to is number 50 and 51 in that picture UNDER the stainless washer and is most definitely there, I never said on top. And as stated, NOTHING has been replaced other than the water pump housing, impeller, and base. I replaced the stainless washer cause the original was cone shaped, as stated, but was working fine prior to replacing the impeller.
 
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