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A Serious Ethanol Problem

fastjeff

fastjeff

Gold Medal Contributor
This was year # 3 for my inboard boat with 10 % ethanol gas. The results are in, and they are NOT good.

The negative effects of ethanol gas are apparently cumulative, for I had far more problems this year. And that makes sense, for the White Gook left over (unburnt) from year # 1 adds to the new batch created in year # 2, and now were in year # 3. Several times this year I had to use the Fastjeff Ethanol Recovery Method to get out of my slip. (To wit: With the motor idling best as it can, shut off the fuel delivery system--close a valve, or pull the fuse with electric pumps. Then run the carb dead empty, pumping the gas madly as the motor dies to burn up every drop. Then turn the gas back on. Works great--until the White Gook returns.)

So what's the solution to our ethanol pollution debacle (other than firing all of the government jackasses who stuck us boaters with this crap)? Assuming the problem will get even worse next summer (and it will), then I'll have to run my tanks dead empty and then drain the tanks fully--get every drop of 'liquid' out of them. I can then start all over again, getting a few years out of it until the White Gook builds up again.

Suggestions?

Jeff

PS: For those of you who have never seen the liquid that forms when ethanol and water meet, here's a photo of it (and the bottom of the container). No known additive will make that White Gook burn.
 

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Fuel tank systems will have to "tuned" to how we use our boats. We will have to adjust tank size to the amount of gas we use so that we don't store it for more than a month. One large tank that gave us range may have to be converted to several smaller tanks. I know of a few boats that had tanks pulled,cleaned & a drain installed in the bottom of the tank. Every year when the boat is hauled a hose gets fed thru the hull drain & connected to the tank drain. Open the valve & drain the tank completely I know its illegal. But,gravity may be less dangerous than some of the pump systems that are being rigged up.
 
Ayuh,.... I just carry spare fuel filters, 'n freezer baggies,...

When the motor starts stutterin',...
I pop off the filter, drop it into a baggie, 'n screw on another 1,...

Repeat as necessary,...

Last Spring, I built my own "Fuel Polishin' system"
An ole electric fuel pump, 'n a gallon sized Mack 2ndary fuel filter,...
I pull the fuel line off the boat's fuel filter, 'n cycle it through the polisher, back into the tank, 'n toss that Big filter when done,...
 
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fastjeff...you are running carbs so you are not as critical as a efi..with an efi you would have a project on your hands completely cleaning tank...i added a big water filter and it got junked up good with the white stuff...but some of it did get thru and fouled up a new efi engine...the tank is where it will not come out of the boat so i finally just pumped it dry and capped it off and use portable tanks..but i will say that the water filter trapped a good 95% of it so it helped...what was surprising was that the filter on the engine looked clean and i could blow thru it...but it was bad too..the way to tell is to press a finger on it and if it tends to stick at all to the finger at all it is bad..
i use a boat year round down here...it may sit for 30 days in the feb time frame but thats it...so cycling the gas is no problem..especially with the portable tanks..but i use stabil a lot....if i am at camp and running tank after tank thru the boat the i run untreated gas...but when i fill tanks for the last time down there i add stabil because i know its going to set....and i can never say for sure how long its going to set...i left camp in late august and wife cracked an ankle sept 5 and the boat has not been run except on a trailer with a hose a couple times...the other thing thats critical is the level of the tank when you are going to be set up...i either want tanks completely empty or completely full...very little air in there or no gas where the air can screw it up..
i will never have another boat with a built in tank unless it had two things...a good drain....you can always use the gas in lawnmowers etc...the 2nd thing is a plate on top of the tank that i could remove once a year with the plate being large enough to see inside the tank and to enable me to clean it if necc...
another problem with the e10 is water..it makes water...so when an engine is missing with it its not just the white stuff thats the problem...the stabil will take care of most of that...
i have saw marinas in florida (on the web) that have a fancy flushing and cleaning procedure for gas tanks...they remove the gas and then filter it...then they run something else thru the tank for an extended period and filter it and just keep running and cleaning...then they put the gas back...the rig looked expensive....as far as i know we have none of those in my part of louisiana...but i dont think draining your tank is going to get rid of all the debris...draining it and adding the water filter will help and you probably will be able to run a carbed engine though..
sorry i typed too much but i been the route on ethanol...and thats e10...e15 is coming.....
 
Note: White Gook will go right through water separators and filters, for it is lighter (and thinner) than water.

I drain my separator regularly and have never seen any in the glass jar I collect the drainage in--and it must goes through it since the carbs get it. I also change fuel filters every year to no avail. This stuff is bad news!

I like the fuel polishing idea. may have to rig up a system on mine and give it a try.

Jeff
 
And THAT would be the problem! The cost of getting a certification--and the time involved--would be excessive.

Jeff
 
I never had a problem since we had to go with EtOH in our fuel. I think the key is to not let your gas get too old. In my case, that is never a problem since my Egg Harbor loves to drink gas. :) I have also been storing my tanks full over winter lay-up and with no issues come spring. When EtOH was first introduced, I did completely drain my tanks and make sure they were clean. I know many people who have had problems since they had crude in the tanks and the EtOH acts as a solvent that cleans the fuel system and clogs up filters and separators.
 
craig_collins said:
I never had a problem since we had to go with EtOH in our fuel. I think the key is to not let your gas get too old. In my case, that is never a problem since my Egg Harbor loves to drink gas. :) I have also been storing my tanks full over winter lay-up and with no issues come spring. When EtOH was first introduced, I did completely drain my tanks and make sure they were clean. I know many people who have had problems since they had crude in the tanks and the EtOH acts as a solvent that cleans the fuel system and clogs up filters and separators.
Click to expand...

I also have not had any real problems. I try keep to keep the tanks filled,use the boat & change filters. I always winter stored with full tanks. When just running around locally I now keep dumping in 20 gallons that I pick up at a gas station every time I go to the boat. I used to just run it until it was low & run over to Jersey & put 200 gallons in. I was surprised when I was looking at a gas sample from a friends boat. It looked ok to me. He added some fresh gas to the sample & let it sit over night. Next day you could see a clear line betwee the old & new gas. The water just doesn't drop to the bottom like it used to .
 
Thanks for all your inputs. People like me (who boat in Maryland) end up with about half the year out of the water, which allows all kind of hell to take place in the fuel tanks. I'd love to plug off the vent (using a charcoal canister deal like cars use) but it's illegal, and my marina would never approve.

Those of you running 10 % ethanol who haven't had a problem, great! Neither did I, for the first 2 or 3 years. Let's hope MY problem doesn't become yours.

Jeff
 
fastjeff said:
Thanks for all your inputs. People like me (who boat in Maryland) end up with about half the year out of the water, which allows all kind of hell to take place in the fuel tanks. I'd love to plug off the vent (using a charcoal canister deal like cars use) but it's illegal, and my marina would never approve.

Those of you running 10 % ethanol who haven't had a problem, great! Neither did I, for the first 2 or 3 years. Let's hope MY problem doesn't become yours.

Jeff
Click to expand...


I've wondered why plugging the vent in the off season would be an issue if you left it at say 3/4 or 7/8. It doesn't expand that much does it?
 
fastjeff said:
Thanks for all your inputs. People like me (who boat in Maryland) end up with about half the year out of the water, which allows all kind of hell to take place in the fuel tanks. I'd love to plug off the vent (using a charcoal canister deal like cars use) but it's illegal, and my marina would never approve.

Those of you running 10 % ethanol who haven't had a problem, great! Neither did I, for the first 2 or 3 years. Let's hope MY problem doesn't become yours.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Your charcoal canister idea got me to thinking. How about desiccant? I did a search and found this for 55 gallon storage drums. I'm sure some company could get this to work with our tank vents.
Disposable Desiccant Cartridge dries displacement air entering storage drums to -100° F dewpoint. It prevents condensation of water vapor and resulting contamination. The indicator window turns from blue to pink when the cartridge is exhausted. When used with the adapters shown here, these cartridges provide economical and versatile means for preventing moisture contamination in drums and small tanks.
 
My two cents............

From southern Ontario

10% ethanol/regular, on the road gas station gas used all the time....never buy at a marina..use Jerry cans.... gas station to the boat

Twin Crusader 350's

Boat in fresh water 01 June-01 October

Change fuel filters at least two times a year, (10 micron)

On the hard the rest of the time with full fuel tanks and STABILIZER .

Have been doing this since I bought the boat in 1996. (1991 model)

So far, absolutely no problems

Could it be the Stabilizer that is keeping me out of trouble ?? ( the reason I ask is that many of the posters have not mentioned that they use stabilizer when laying up their boat for the winter)
 
Jeff, I use an electric fuel pump at the beginning of each season and pump out roughly 1/2 a gallon from each tank. usually half of it is water and gunk. it is a bit of a pain but it works for me. I also use startron all through the season and at the end of the season I use stabil. I also run a separate filter on each tank and a water seperator
 
fastjeff said:
Thanks for all your inputs. People like me (who boat in Maryland) end up with about half the year out of the water, which allows all kind of hell to take place in the fuel tanks. I'd love to plug off the vent (using a charcoal canister deal like cars use) but it's illegal, and my marina would never approve.

Those of you running 10 % ethanol who haven't had a problem, great! Neither did I, for the first 2 or 3 years. Let's hope MY problem doesn't become yours.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Jeff, how have you only been boating with EtOH for 2 or 3 years? EtOH has been around in Maryland for a lot longer than that.
 
1995 454xl. I have had the boat for 7 years. Only burn non-ethanol. Yeah it cost a few bucks more, but have had zero problems. I try to use marinas with valvtect. There is a few filling stations in town that sell mid grade non ethanol. I use them once in a while. But a pita to tote 2 hundred gallons of gas in jerry cans to save a hundred bucks
 
valvtect....that's what I meant. I use it too but here in California it has ethanol in it. Supposedly their additive package minimizes the effects of ethanol. We can no longer purchase non ethanol marine fuel...at least that's what I'm told.
 
Most marinas don't allow LARGE amounts of refueling of boats from Jerry cans for insurance reasons. (Some will even toss you out if they catch you!)

This year was year # 4 with ethanol for us. No local marina sells non-ethanol around here--blast it!

misnancy: I like the idea of pumping out a few gallons before starting engines in the spring. That's a GREAT idea, in fact! It's going on my spring commissioning list as we speak.

Jeff
 
quicksilver used to sell a reusable water collecting "sock" with a lanyard for pulling water out of tanks....drop it in, let it soak, and pull it out...sit it out in the sun and it would shrink as the water evaporated....don't know if they still sell them...my issue, with a single large tank, was getting to the "low" point - fill port is at the "uphill" front end.
 
Jeff...same story here. I asked and was told my lease would be terminated if I fueled from cans. On a side note, has anyone tried methanol to minimize the water? I know its miscible with water and it burns.
 
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It also has an affinity for water, which would add even more to a vented tank. In a car, the methanol absorbs what's already there. Not having a vent (like a boat) more water does not come in from the atmosphere. The purpose of "dry gas" is to improve gas that you bought with water in it.

Jeff
 
Jeff, when I do the fuel in the spring I hook into the line before the filters that way I don't draw any crap in the filters. Paul
 
missnancy said:
Jeff, when I do the fuel in the spring I hook into the line before the filters that way I don't draw any crap in the filters. Paul
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be better to remove the fuel send and get right to the bottom of the tank? Otherwise you are only getting what the fuel pick-up tube can reach which isn't getting to the bottom where the bad stuff is located.
 
By "send(er)" I assume you mean the float gage opening? One of them is a b*tch to get at on my boat, so...

The fuel inlet is low and aft, and the boat is stored bow high, so they should do the trick. We'll see.

Jeff


PS: Gotta do better than last year!
 
fastjeff said:
By "send(er)" I assume you mean the float gage opening? One of them is a b*tch to get at on my boat, so...

The fuel inlet is low and aft, and the boat is stored bow high, so they should do the trick. We'll see.

Jeff


PS: Gotta do better than last year!
Click to expand...

Yes, I meant the sender mounted at the top of the tank. Otherwise removal of the pickup tube itself if that is easier to get to. But just using the existing pickup tube doesn't get what is at the very bottom of the tank. I agree, when out of the water and stored bow high with an aft area pickup tube you will get more than when the boat is in the water. Hopefully enough.
 
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