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57L Crusader power loss

S

snooper

New member
I have 2 - 5.7L 2007 Fuel Inje

I have 2 - 5.7L 2007 Fuel Injected Crusaders: I am having power problems with one. At cruising speed the power suddenly drops off. I changed the main fuel filter and the one in the fuel-cell. Any other suggestions??
 
"Any alarms or DTC codes? Fue

"Any alarms or DTC codes? Fuel is the most likely suspect, I'd put a pressure gauge on it and see what happens."
 
"Rick,
I don't have any

"Rick,
I don't have anything to read codes. Where would I put the pressure gage - low pressure or high pressure pump? Also what do i compare it with.
My main problem is that I can't find anyone local to work on these engines. Even under warranty
I am a retired marine engineer, so I understand the systems, just do not have enough experience with the engines.
Thanks,
John"
 
"[b]"My main problem is th

""My main problem is that I can't find anyone local to work on these engines. Even under warranty"

Ayuh,... That Sucks,...

Without the 'puter,... You're runnin' Blind....

Btw,...
"Where would I put the pressure gage - low pressure or high pressure pump? Also what do i compare it with."

The Hi-pressure side, there should be a pressure port/ schrader valve...
Compare it to the Good runnin' Twin..."
 
Stop by your local autoparts s

Stop by your local autoparts store and buy a cheap FI pressure gauge. You will be able to read the pressure in the fuel rail at the schrader valve port.

I purchased the Rinda software for my 07 Crusader engine. I think they changed ECM types to a CAN data type in 07 so the cheap Rinda reader won't look at it. One visit to the shop would probably pay for the software and interface. Give them a call. So far I've had a ECM failure and two oil pressure sender failures on my 07 8.1L engine. I also carry a elcheepo oil pressure gauge that I can attach to the spare port on the Tee on the block where the sensor attaches. I think I'm going to put a real sender on it to use instead of what the ECM sends to the gauge. I would still have the low oil pressure alarm from the ECM.
 
"Great advice - I will purchas

"Great advice - I will purchase the gage and go from there. Would one of the alarms pull the throttle back - ie: high temp, low oil press etc? I agree with the theory of the tee in the port, I would valve it off though if you you are going to keep it local, and only use when you are testing or checking. I have seen a bourdon tube blow from vibration - not pretty."
 
"Joe, You already have RPM re

"Joe, You already have RPM reduction built into your system, you also have a low oil pressure alarm.

Regarding fuel pressure, you should have 57-62 psi at WOT. It is important to be able to check the pressure at WOT although, if your problem is fuel related, you will see a drop in pressure corresponding with your drop in RPMs. Good pressure at idle does not necessarily tell you anything."
 
Rick is correct on the fuel pr

Rick is correct on the fuel pressure. I failed to mention the pressure at WOT. Rick also mentioned the auto power reduction which should occur if you develop problems like oil pressure etc. When my oil pressuree sensor failed on two occasions and dropped the reading to zero I did not get a rollback in power. I'm not sure what parameters would cause the PCM to roll the power back.

I would check the fuel pressures against the other engine at several RPM's and record the ones from the good engine for future reference. Crusader only requires a reading at WOT on the installation documentation that the installer/dealer sends in after the installation.

With the Rinda software you can save snapshots of the engine running at various RPM and have some good references of almost every parameter for possible future troubleds.

I had a PCM & crank position sensor failure before aI ever got mine in the water with the new engine. The nearest warranty shop to me was 300 miles so I worked with Crusader after purchasing the software. They also provided me with the manual for the PCM system which details every connection and information on every sensor on the engine.

I believe it applies to the engines smaller than my 8.1L engine. If it does I can email that to you if you do much of your own work.
 
"Joe,

Your engine has two O

"Joe,

Your engine has two OP sensors. One for the gauge and one for the ECM. If the gauge sender fails, it will not go into RPM reduction because you still have oil pressure and the ECM sensor is still operating properly.

Also regarding crank sensor failures on new engines. I have seen these failures and most of the time it is not actually a failed sensor but metal filings stuck to the magnetic tip which prevents the sensor from reading the signal from the crankshaft. These filings come from the machine process and try as they might, they don't always flush them all out when building the engine. These filings are captured in the oil filter in pretty short order but sometimes they build up on the sensor before that can happen.

It sounds like you have learned a lot about these engines and are well prepared to handle your own service issues. Congratulations!"
 
"Joe & Rick,
here's

"Joe & Rick,
here's the update: I managed to convince one of the dealers to meet me at 7am Friday at the boat and bring the computer. Unfortunately, it turned out that he had the right software, but the wrong adapter to read the error codes. The manual on my 07's mentions the CAN interface that is designed to match up with the optional "MurphyView" gage system. But, it seems that there is a different setup for actually reading the engine ECM codes. He has ordered the correct adapter from Crusader and will return next week. Here is what I have learned from his experience with these engines: He said that if the engine backfired, or overheated, even for a minute the ECM puts the engine in a mode which will automatically reduce the max RPM. I did have a backfire on the first occasion after having been at idle for about 3 hours fishing. He claims that they have worked with Crusader on this issue and that there is no other way of clearing the code without the computer. This does not give me great confidence in the system since I frequently run to the Bahamas and that is why I did the repower. Any kind of moisture in the fuel etc could cause this and then I would be stuck until I can get to someone with the software. I will of course look into purchasing this after we have "proven" that is the problem. Any input on this will be greatly appreciated. For the record, I am a retired Marine Engineer with 22 years of experience working on mechanical and electrical systems up to 50,000 HP diesel engines. I do not want to work on my own engines anymore, but it seems that may be the only alternative.
With all that said: Joe, I would very much appreciate you emailing me the file you have @ [email protected]
I apologize for the lengt of this post.
Thanks again for all your help!!
John"
 
"John,

It sounds like you b

"John,

It sounds like you better learn how to work on this system yourself. The current version of electronics used by Crusader has been in production for nearly three years. If this "technician" does not have the proper hardware to connect to it, that means that in the past three years he has not worked a new Crusader engine.

Also, any backfire or hickup will not put your engine into RPM reduction. RPM reduction is triggered by three issues. They are overtemp, low oil pressure and trans temp, and once in RPM reduction, you do not need a computer to get out of it. You can simply turn off and restart the engine. If the situation is not corrected it will go back into reduction, but if it is, you're fine. A backfire will only engage "knock retard" which simply temporarily retards the timing until the condition is corrected.

All of these issues will store codes which can be viewed by the diagnostic software or the Murphy gauge. If you're going to spend money to work on this, I would recommend the Murphy gauges rather than the diagnostic software. They will display much of the same information, but other features more useful to the user such as a trip log, fuel flow meter, etc.(just a thought).

These DTC or stored codes will automatically be erased after 50 starts with no issues.

I hope this was helpful.

Regards
Rick"
 
"Rick,
I was just reading t

"Rick,
I was just reading the ECM manual. I agree with your post. I had been over to the boat and started the engine, I had a slight misfire at the start and then it was fine (this has not happened before). After warming the engine, I brought it up to 3000 RPM and it did not pull back with no load on it. Now I am confused...
I will give this guy a chance next week and then go forward with your suggestion. I do not remember how much the Murphy gages were ( I have 2 engines) , but I will call the distributor. Also, I don't know if I mentioned it or not, but I have the Synch N Cruz system on mine. That required an additional wiring harness and I believe an adapter. I don't know if that is part of the issue with the computer. By the way - it was Crusader that told this guy he had the wrong adapter. He did not really believe them, but figured he would have them send it before pressing the issue... .

Thanks again,
John"
 
"John,

"I don't kn

"John,

"I don't know if that is part of the issue with the computer."

I'm not convinced there is an issue with the computer. How did you make out with the fuel pressure readings?

Regarding the Murphy gauges, Half the battle is won. That new harness also accommodates the Murphy gauges so you won't need to buy that again.

Rick"
 
"Rick,

I noticed that you m

"Rick,

I noticed that you mentioned that there are two OP sensors. My 8.1 has but one. It's fed by a reference 5v and has a potentiometer in it that puts out a voltage to the PCM related to the oil pressure. This is the one I have had fail twice,. I have a spare port on the adaptor for the OP sensor that I plan to install a standard OP sender and let the alarm be generated by the factory sender. I don't know what year tis started. I was told by Crusader that they changed to the new type CAN PCM in 07??"
 
"That is correct. Early '

"That is correct. Early '07 production 5.7s and PowerPack engines will still have two but everything with the ECM-07 electronics will have the single cam bus sensor, including your 8.1"
 
"I have been away with work an

"I have been away with work and vacation (without the boat). I apologize for the late update, but here it is: The mechanic showed up with the correct plug and the software. He found NO error codes or anything else wrong with the engines. He did a fuel pressure test, but only at the dock, again, no problem.
I proceeded to purchase the fuel pump pressure tester and after attaching and bleeding the line, ran the boat at different RPM's. I got all 57-62 psi results, and tested against the other engine. They are identical. Now here is the weird part: I have had no further problems with the engine. I am wondering if there was air in the fuel line and it was bled out by the gage. I ran the boat yesterday for 6 hours at different speeds and fishing ( 1 sail released 2 missed ), not even a hiccup. I spoke with the rep at crusader: it appears the Murphy View gages are about $1200.00/each. Whoa - that is a little much. How about the software and the setup. Anyone know what that cost is?
Well, that's it for now. Again, sorry for the late post. Life, work and the holiday's kind of got in the way."
 
"Here's the info on the so

"Here's the info on the software Rinda sells. You will need the $699 version that has the later CAN adaptor. It's called Diacom software and comes with the cable and interface and can be used on a laptop. I believe there is a serial and USB port version. It's the same software that the service folks have. Just talk to them and they can tell you what you need. Unfortunately they don't have the cheaper small plug in code reader for the engine.

One serevice call could possibley pay for it. I saved several files of the engine readings taken at multiple RPMs so that I would have reference readings.

http://www.rinda.com/acro/prodlist.pdf"
 
"John, If you have the engine

"John, If you have the engines that return fuel directly to the tanks you did not have air trapped. It is possible you had a stuck ball check in a fuel pump that freed itself.

Keep that gauge handy, it will come in handy."
 
"Rick,
I have the cooled fu

"Rick,
I have the cooled fuel cells without the returns. I think the fuel gage is actually the easiest way to bleed it off.
Have you heard anything about these being a problem?"
 
"No, only on initial installat

"No, only on initial installation seatrial or after running out of fuel, although the system, by design, does lend its selt to the problem."
 
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