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2001 E250 cranks but wont run

C

CCAP

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First I will say hello, new to forum and Evinrudes. I have a center console with twin 250's. Port motor wont start. Fuel pump runs when cranking. All fuses good, including 20A inline fuse near PDP. Hooked up software and can fire all 6 injectors, also connected spark tester to each plug wire(plugs not removed) and can fire all plugs with software. Dedicated batteries for each engine are new and fully charged. Voltage at start solenoid 12.6, voltage pink wire at solenoid 12.6, drops to 10.5 at cranking. Pink/white wire at connector to emm reads 11.3v key 'on' then goes 20v when cranking. Have swapped following parts from running stbd. engine to port, each time putting parts from port engine onto stbd. engine. Stbd. engine continues to start and run fine with port components. Port engine fails to start with stbd components: electric fuel pump, spark plugs, emm, power distribution panel, 40v capacitor. Port engine WILL fire right up with ether, but I don't do that for more than 5-6 seconds. I am stumped!
 
Oh, I like this one!!! A real head scratcher.

OK, you changed the electric fuel pump...Did you change the pump only, or did you change the entire vapor separator assembly?

If it were me, I would pull an injector off and visually verify that fuel was being shot out the injector pintle while trying to start.

Also, if you have fuel, spark, and compression....well, do you have spark at the right time? Index the flywheel and check that #1 sparks at or near TDC.
Do it for all cylinders.

Do you have any codes? Crankshaft position sensor, for example......
 
Also, operating the injectors individually with the software does not ensure that the EMM is actually operating them while trying to start.

The EMM may be saying...nope, I have detected this fault, and I am not gonna give it any gas....

Double verify that you actually have gas to the injectors and that it is being injected...not just that you hear an injector click when operated by the software.
 
Fuel for both engines from same tank, but to be sure I drained Racor and secondary fuel filter and I am feeding port racor with fresh gas from jerry can. Also I changed entire pump assy., including vapor canister. Today I am going to remove injectors and test for spray while cranking. I am concerned about pintle assy. shooting out so I am going to bolt injs. to a spare bare head I have. I have no faults showing. Thanks
 
O.K., so when I remove inj from head and let hang, as soon as turn key on pressure from fuel pump leaks out head of injector because removable pintle/spray nozzle tip is not seated. So I bolted 2 inj to spare head and let that hang and cranked motor- I did not see any spray from injectors. I reinstalled injectors and cranked motor a few times. Once again it tried to start and kind of coughed. This time I got 2 active faults both indicating lack of oil pressure AND SLOW mode was activated. Oil prime ball is rock hard. I have a good emm and set of injectors from a 200, I was thinking swapping those over tomorrow, then maybe swap CPS. Any thoughts?
 
O.K., so when I remove inj from head and let hang, as soon as turn key on pressure from fuel pump leaks out head of injector because removable pintle/spray nozzle tip is not seated. So I bolted 2 inj to spare head and let that hang and cranked motor- I did not see any spray from injectors. I reinstalled injectors and cranked motor a few times. Once again it tried to start and kind of coughed. This time I got 2 active faults both indicating lack of oil pressure AND SLOW mode was activated. Oil prime ball is rock hard. I have a good emm and set of injectors from a 200, I was thinking swapping those over tomorrow, then maybe swap CPS. Any thoughts?
 
OOPs, Anyway not sure what to do about oil pressure issue. This was never there before and was certainly not the cause of original shutdown
 
I thought you said you swapped EMM from the other motor,? Why would an EMM from the 200 make any difference?

Got no injector action while cranking, but you have good fuel pressure at the injectors. Just no signal? Is that it?

I will have to go get the book.....meanwhile measure the voltages at the injector connectors while cranking.
 
Correct, I did swap emm from other engine. I installed emm from 200 because I also intended to install the injectors from the 200 also, granted the emm install would seem to be unneccesary. I will check voltages at injectors.
 
Also, unplug one injector, and try crank/start. Verify that the EMM throws a code for an open injector circuit.
If you have the head and injector setup you had for testing, can you operate the injectors via the software with the key on (fuel rail pressure) and verify that fuel is ejected using the software?
 
Good call, forgot to mention that. With key on and fire injectors with software, can hear inj clicking but NO fuel comes out, that is why I felt inj bad. Only tested 2 inj this way. Inj 1 and 3 are the injectors that I bolted to bare head and tested. I will try unplugging injector and verifying fault code, wont get back to boat till noon or so.
 
voltage at injectors key on is 11.8, same as system voltage on 'moniter' page of software. voltage goes to 20v while cranking, ditto system voltage. Each time I crank engine it will eventually 'catch' and run for 1-2 seconds. ohmed CPS 1.12 K ohm port, 1.15 K ohm stbd
 
I know I keep asking questions, and not offering answers.....but that 20v system voltage seems low to me. I thought it should be around 40, but it may normally be low when cranking....so, can you guess what my next question will be?

On the engine that runs, what is the system voltage when cranking?

Also, you get system voltage on both pins of the injector connector, or just one?

If you have system voltage (20 when cranking) on both pins, then the EMM is not providing injector firing signal. One pin should be system voltage,
the other pin will go to ground whenever the injector fires. It will be a very fast transition to ground, and then back to that 20v system voltage.

What I cannot get is what would cause the EMM to not fire the injectors....puzzler.

And please verify absolutely....you DO have gas at the injectors, and you CAN see spray when operating the injector with the software, right?
But when observing the injector operation while trying to start...no spray....right?
 
Correct, 20v while cranking, called 'start assist', raises too 40v once running. No, I did not see fuel at injector when fired from software with injectors bolted to bare head, that is odd. On injector connector, was only getting voltage on white wire. inj. 1&2 blue and white wire, 3 &4 purple and white wires, 5 & 6 green and white wires. Was not getting any v on colored wire with key on, did not check while cranking. I figured since I found v at white wire, both 11.6 and 20, colored wire was just ground. Questions are GOOD. In addition, I did swap out all injectors and rail assy. with the set from the 200 hp, figured why not? No change. Will check stbd engine system and run v tomorrow
 
removed no 6 inj from each eng and bolted to bare head. neither inj sprays key on firing with software, each inj has 20v while firing. cranked stbd eng key on, sprays fuel while cranking and when running. 20v at inj goes to 40v once running
 
port eng no fuel from inj key on while cranking starter, have 20v at inj while cranking motor. Also today eng does not cough and try to start, just flat cranking. Have spark tester hooked to plug while cranking, good spark. So no fuel from injectors even though all my voltage signals seem to be ok. What am I missing?
 
You know where the fuel pressure test port is? Down low on the rear of the vap separator, there is the fuel return line. Fuel returns to the vap sep from the rail. In that line, there is supposed to be a Schrader valve for testing fuel pressure. Locate that line, press in the valve core center, and see if fuel sprays out.

Two things happening....you either have no or very little fuel pressure, or the injectors are not firing.

I am betting on the no fuel pressure angle. You should have 23 lbs minimum at all running speeds of fuel pressure.
Even better, if you can get a fuel pressure gauge on that port.....

Maybe there is a Schrader valve on the output of the HP fuel pump....the line that feeds the injector input rail.
 
To clarify....immediately when key on, the HP fuel pump will run for about ten seconds. It then shuts down.
If you are doing the software testing, looking for spray, and the ten seconds are up, then it may not have enough residual pressure to spray.
Just depends. When engine is cranking, fuel pump is running.

I would get a fuel pressure gauge on the defective engine fuel rail. I don't think there is any fault that will keep the injectors from firing when trying to start. So, I bet on low to no fuel pressure.
 
Roger that, have checked Schrader valve several times. I don't have gauge but comparing to stbd motor, pressure appears ok, but I will get gauge. On another note, have been playing with engine all morning. Finally decided to run it on ether for 10-15 seconds. Now it will start and run on its own. Did inj drop test while running and no change #5, so shut down and pulled plug, saturated. I am making progress! Pulled inj 5 to try check spray pattern, will bolt to bare head.
 
Sorry, look at end of first post. It always would run on ether. Been sitting maybe 1 year. Ok, here is the full story, opted to leave out but here it is. Have a 1979 23 mako and the old 1989c 225 crapped out. Found set of 2001 250's for sale, guy was repowering 4 strokes. Had local dealer do static tests and compression both engines and fault history(they were both on pallets) Both engines checked out fine. Owner stated port motor had ran rough last time run, plugs looked fouled. He divulged all this prior to sale. I bought both for 3000. I placed stbd motor on 23 mako and has run flawless for a year. Recently purchased a 1986 251 mako with 2004 E225's, port engine blown. I installed both 250's on this boat and put good 225 back on 23 mako.
 
Well.....so. What do I do? I will offer you this piece of advice.
If those engines have been sitting for years, and if the fault was indeed gummed up injectors, causing no fuel flow, then you will ALWAYS
have a doubt as to whether they are clean and flowing at the proper rate.

You could be on the verge of an RUD. In the world of aerospace, specifically SpaceX, an RUD is a Rapid Unplanned Disassembly.

Good luck. Just be real careful.
 
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