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2001 Crusader won't start without excessive cranking

J

j.cowling

New member
I have a pair of 2001 Crusader, Captains Choice 5.7 MPI engines. The port one starts fine, but the STBD one takes excessive cranking. I have to adjust the throttle, and do all sorts of stuff to finally get it to start. Sometimes it's starts right away, other times it can take several minutes. I've replaced the low pressure, high pressure fuel pumps, the FCC filter, fuel/water separator, distributor cap, rotor, and coil. Any ideas what else it could be? Once it's running, it runs fine. Could the timing be off? When I go to time these engines, what should I set it at? Retarded, or advanced and what degree? Thanks for all the help. If I use starting fluid, it starts right up. I don't do it often, just a test.
 
To do much beyond parts changing (much of which you have covered) you will need to use a scanner to determine what the Engine Control Module (ECM) is telling you. You likely have an MEFI 3 or MEFI 4 in the engine. But first get the MEFI diagnostic manual (search for a download on the internet). It lists a long series of actions that can be taken for problems such as yours (although the solutions usually start with a scan). Timing should not be the problem since the ECM should set it automatically.... but the manual for your controller will tell you for sure. Perhaps on your engines (if they are MEFI 3) you have to set the base timing and the computer only does the advance. See the manual.

If starting fluid starts it right up it could be fuel starvation or a very weak spark. You can put a pressure gage on the fuel rail to determine if it pressurizes to spec (see the manual) when the ignition is turned on. A spark issue could be caused by a distributer adjustment (called cam retard) needed on some MEFI engines to insure that the rotor is correctly pointed at the plug wire post when the coil fires. Again, you need the manual (and a scanner).

I did not know the Captains Choice 5.7 MPI was made before '02. Are you sure of the year? If it is an '02 with a MEFI 4 I can give you some additional places to go for information. An article on the website Pirate 4x4 has an article with pictures to identify MEFI controllers.

CaboJohn
 
Maybe they are 2003's. I think you're right. I'll definitely look into that troubleshooting manual. Where do you actually hook a scanner up on the engine? I know cars have the OBD 2 plug. What about boat engines? I've got a scanner for cars, will it work for this? Thanks a lot. You've given some great information.
 
The manual (search for MEFI 4 Diagnostic Manual) will show you where to hook up. There is a rectangular plug on a pigtail near the ECM. It has a cap on it. As for the scanner, unfortunately automotive scanners will not work. The ECM (Marine Electronic Fuel Injection - MEFI) is a special controller made by GM for marine applications (and also favored by the hot rod community). Only Rinda makes a scanner for the unit. Their TechMate is the least expensive. Not cheap, but cheaper than boat parts.
CaboJohn
 
CaboJohn said:
The manual (search for MEFI 4 Diagnostic Manual) will show you where to hook up. There is a rectangular plug on a pigtail near the ECM. It has a cap on it. As for the scanner, unfortunately automotive scanners will not work. The ECM (Marine Electronic Fuel Injection - MEFI) is a special controller made by GM for marine applications (and also favored by the hot rod community). Only Rinda makes a scanner for the unit. Their TechMate is the least expensive. Not cheap, but cheaper than boat parts.
CaboJohn
Click to expand...

Thank you. I'm gonna try and find this scanner. I hope we get this problem fixed. It's frustrating changing out so many parts to no prevail. Thanks again!
 
Since it is intermittent, it could be the relay is corroded or a connector isn't fully seated...troubleshooting vs "throwing parts" at the issue will get you a solution much faster and usually with economy, too.

Make sure you understand that the scanner is a wonderful device but it isn't "all-knowing"...on many pre-MEFI-4 setups, the computer has little knowledge of the fuel pressure or the fuel pump for that matter...in other words, it can only let you know what it can read and nothing beyond that....

I doubt moving the throttle really makes any difference...I'd be inclined to put a pressure gauge on the rail and ensure that the pump delivers fuel every time you turn the key on...no fuel in the rail or too low of a pressure = no start...
 
Step one is to get a diagnostic manual. Search, find it, and do a download. They are around 300 pages so use double side print. Then spend several hours reading it and you will be amazed at how much better you understand the engine. Maybe you will not need the scanner. Some of the "non-scanner" suggestions in the manual for long cranking time: "Check the camshaft position sensor for proper mounting and/or a bad connection. A long crank time occurs if the ECM does not receive a CMP signal." "Check for proper fuel pressure." "Check for proper ignition voltage output." "Check for a ECT sensor shifted in value." This is the Engine Coolant Temperature sensor and while a scanner is the best way to check, it takes about 5 minutes to swap it with your other engine and that will also tell you if that is the problem. "Check for proper operation of the TP (throttle position) sensor." "Check for proper operation of the IAC (idle air control) valve."

None of this stuff needs the scanner. There are other things (like the cam retard setting) that require a scanner so they are very useful. And they are particularly useful with twin engines as you can compare outputs item by item and look for what is different. Best place to buy from Rinda is on their website.

But first get the manual. It is essential whether or not you get a scanner.

CaboJohn
 
Sounds good. Once I get some time off work I'll head down to the boat and give all these things a shot. Thanks for the help. I will find that manual because I really don't know these engines well. Thanks for all your help. I'll keep you updated. I've found a couple manuals, not exactly sure which one is my engine. Is there a good place to go to find it? Thanks again.
 
As I said earlier, go to Pirate 4x4 and read the article on MEFI controllers so you can identify yours. But I think it is a 4 and the link on that site will get you to the correct manual. It not it is likely a 3 and those are also available if you search.

CaboJohn
 
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