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1985 force 85 motor wiring issues

D

Docwiese

New member
Motor sat for years and we changed water pump and started it, but could not get linkage to work until a washer under each four screws on the Alternator Stator, which took the pressure off the Trigger assembly when the flywheel was tighten down so it could move. The throttle Linkage then worked and trigger assembly would move when giving it throttle forward or backword. However, the motor would not start. Yes, it started before in neutral, but linkage would not move, nor Trigger Assembly also would not move, which i assume deals with timing as the motor is throttle up in gear. NOW all these parts work, but motor will not start... I was told to sand off some of the rusty look on the Stator heads and slight sand on the inside of the Stator, which I realize had a plastic coating and was not direct metal. I was told this would not effect it starting. Also put on new choke solenoid, which worked fine with direct wire to battery, BUT green wire from wire junction block has no power to green wire. Checking all other wires on this juncion plate there is only one that shows power and that is a heavy red wire all others there is no power. See attached photo of what I am talking about. I assume that if one red wire has power the breaker box at the bottom is not shorted out, however I do not understand why there is no other wires on this Junction block not having power, that is question 1. Then the fact that the motor did run and now it does not and it just keeps flooding the carbs if choked and turning it over and over. Sometime it will detinate with a backfire. Starter works fine so there is power there. You can write me at [email protected] as this forum might not contact me to let me know someone has responded.
 
No photo unless you have 3 or 5 posts. All the leads connected to the terminal block: Most get power when the item is activated.
The 1985 choke : push in the key and power is supplied to the unit. WD 40 sprayed into the key switch can help make better connections.
The Orange lead (temp)won't have power unless the motor gets hot/overheated.
Do a spark and compression test??? Post results.
Starting procedures: Squeeze the primer ball until firm, Neutral for the shifter.
Turn the key and push in and hold the choke/primer then turn the key all the way then as the motor turns(key still in) the motor should pop/start/ cough.
Then release the choke and turn the key.
The shifter has a fast idle position: Side of the shifter pull the handle out or push the button, this free's the shift arm, push forward for fast idle.
Those steps should help if you have spark.
 
Jerryjerry05 said:
No photo unless you have 3 or 5 posts. All the leads connected to the terminal block: Most get power when the item is activated.
The 1985 choke : push in the key and power is supplied to the unit. WD 40 sprayed into the key switch can help make better connections.
The Orange lead (temp)won't have power unless the motor gets hot/overheated.
Do a spark and compression test??? Post results.
Starting procedures: Squeeze the primer ball until firm, Neutral for the shifter.
Turn the key and push in and hold the choke/primer then turn the key all the way then as the motor turns(key still in) the motor should pop/start/ cough.
Then release the choke and turn the key.
The shifter has a fast idle position: Side of the shifter pull the handle out or push the button, this free's the shift arm, push forward for fast idle.
Those steps should help if you have spark.
Click to expand...
I can't figure how to down load the junction block photo, but it does not matter as most people like yourself knows what that is... Are there suppose to be more than one in and out hot (red) all other are dead for power. We did not test when running, when it did run, but with key on I would think some or all should show hot on the hot side going into the junction box and then going out. Even the green choke wire should be hot when key is on to close choke, or did you say the ignition key has to be pushed in for it to become hot? What say you... do you have a phone number, so I can talk with you about this with a better understanding?
 
Boat wire block.jpg
 
GOT IT TO STARTED, don't know how to dellte my post here.. No need for others to contact me over this. I let it run for 25 minutes to get everything moving again after 5 years of sitting... Jerry, I apprciate your comments. First checked for spark plug spark and they were all good. Second went down and bought new plugs, as I was afraid they might have been fouled from being in there a long time. Rechecked the flywheel key to make sure it was in place, being it had dropped out before putting the flywheel on, which again motor would not start for sure with that issue, but it was now correctly in place. Jerry your statement about pushing in on the ignition key for choke was a new on on me and yet it worked, which told me that the junction Block had power to this wire. However it still would not start. Ran the battery down numerous times and jumped it to give extra power. When choking gas was pouring out the carbs, assumed plugs were to wet, pulling them showed no gas, so i choke it lots more, gas dumping out, but motor began to sputter and try. Just kept working it and low and behold it went from sputter more and more till it acatully started. After 25 minutes put it into gear forward and back and it also worked, put throttle handle has to go a distance into forward to get linkage to work and motor to rev up with prop turning. After turning it off, waited 15 minutes to see if there were going to be issues again in the start, but no, it immediately started up again.. However motor is hot, don't know if tomorrow cold there will be issues again with choking and long time turning over again before the start. NOW i CAN ADVERTISE AND SELL MY BOAT
 
IF??? you think the motors hot??? Test the overheat system. Key on and run a wire from the orange lead to ground.
That should make the horn sound off. If that doesn't make a sound??? then replace with a motorcycle or car horn.
I have in my box of tools: 12v test light, analog multi meter, and a heat gun to check the temp of the motor.
The thermostat is set at about 130d. Si the gun reads over 150 the impeller probably needs changing or the thermostat is clogged???
If you suspect the thermo is bad? be VERY careful removing the slotted screws, replace them with stainless 1/4-20 screws. The reason it took so long to start: you flooded the system and needed to clear it out.
Excessive fuel from the carbs could be a bad fuel pump diaphragm???
Good luck selling.
 
Jerryjerry05 said:
IF??? you think the motors hot??? Test the overheat system. Key on and run a wire from the orange lead to ground.
That should make the horn sound off. If that doesn't make a sound??? then replace with a motorcycle or car horn.
I have in my box of tools: 12v test light, analog multi meter, and a heat gun to check the temp of the motor.
The thermostat is set at about 130d. Si the gun reads over 150 the impeller probably needs changing or the thermostat is clogged???
If you suspect the thermo is bad? be VERY careful removing the slotted screws, replace them with stainless 1/4-20 screws. The reason it took so long to start: you flooded the system and needed to clear it out.
Excessive fuel from the carbs could be a bad fuel pump diaphragm???
Good luck selling.
Click to expand...
I have no idea if it got hot or not, but I went to take the positive connection off the battery and it was so hot it was smoking, could not even touch. Regarding the Orange wire, I assume in the middle of the junction box is what you are talking about, the lead Orange wire touching what for ground and if hot will make the boat horrn sound off? If it does not sound off means what, the motor is not hot? I just replaced the horn out on the boat, the one under the dash works already.
I have a volt tester do not know how 12v test light would test heat... do not know what an analog multi meter is nor have a heat gun. I clearly need to find out after getting it running if the temp of the motor is to much.. Starter was also very hot, just like battery connection, but we assumed it was all the cranking of the motor trying to get it started. I guess i have to buy a heat gauge, which how is this used by placing prob on motor somewhere? We also assume after running it for 25 minutes that it was good because the new water pump impeller was spittig out water just fine. I have no idea where the thermostat is on this boat motor, maybe it just should be replace for happiness sake, unless it is to difficult to get to !!! What do you mean careful removing thermo screws, what can they fall somewhere damaging?
I assumed the system was flooded by all the gas pouring out of each carb, but then turning it over without further choke, motor showed no signs of starting UNTILL I choke again, to a kinda start then big backfire die. I assume from all the gas or timing.. but I again choked with ignition key 2 second push and same thing, did it a few more times and finally it started and as I said let it run once started for 25 minutes to just loosen things up after 5 years of sitting..
 
P.S Have no idea wher the fuel pump is at this moment for a possible bad diaphram. With a bad diaphram, will this cause the the gas to pour out the front when choked... Of Course it does not do this when it is not choked, but then it would not start... Maybe now with only one quick choke it will start without gas dumpage now that we had it running for 25 mimutes to get everything loosened up. That is a big question, as boat motors seem to be a big bag of worms. I have build many car motors and got even older motors, such as 1941 flat head that had not run for maybe 60 or more years to run without all these issues that these boat motors seem to possibly have after only five years... But then the peson before me sold it because now i believe he was into this motor and did not know what he was doing either, such as leavng the prop bushing off after replacing the prop and a few other issues I have already found.
 
The problem most people find is the outboard doesn't get ran enough.
The worst thing for an outboard is inactivity.
The fuel pump is on the side of the motor with the coils and power packs, it's shaped like the number 8 .
The fuel coming from the front of the carbs is probably from over choke or priming. It sounds like it was flooded,
most times you can't see gas on a plug.
You ran it for 25 min, it should be ok.
Good thing you found the prop bushing missing.
 
I appreciate you taking the time to reply on my questions, as your information has helped... Regarding the choke dumping fuel out the front of the carbs verses a bad fuel pump, how would I know if the pump is working or not? If it was not working due to sitting all these years would the motor start without choking and the pump working or if the pump was not working would it maintain once running or would it die?
 
I enjoy answering these question. At 115-125$ an hour it can get pretty expensive going to the shop..
IF??? the diaphragm is intact and no rips/ tears or pin holes??? and the compression is good the pump should be working.
Test : The hose to the bottom carb, undo it and turn the motor over. It should have a small amount of fuel coming from the hose.
The squeezie/ primer ball, it's only function is to draw fuel from the tank. If the equipment is in good shape, the ball should get firm. Once firm the ball just sets there and does nothing, there's a 1 way valve in the ball that can go bad and allow fuel back to the tank.
The choke only works if the key is pushed in and held in. Just pushing the key does nothing but activate the slide in the choke.
Once started the choke shouldn't be needed.
Choke vs. Primer : Choke enriches the fuel going to the motor. Primer gives a tiny squirt of fuel into the bowl of the carb, the motor should be turning over to give the primer fuel(hope that clears up some questions.

Yes it's possible the motor can start with out using the choke, Takes longer. It just makes the starter work harder and wear out faster. Once started you shouldn't need the choke unless the motor cools down.
As long as the diaphragm is good?? the pump should work..
 
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