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1976 F-30 with single 440 water in oil

C

canoe1

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Purchased 1976 F-30 Trojan Express FB cruiser with single chrysler 440 engine. Engine ran smoothly on all 8 started easily after a couple hours idling got water in oil. Took engine down pressure tested heads machine shop says no cracks in heads not warped. Installed new head gaskets head bolts, etc confident that job was done right. There was evidence that head gaskets replaced, had not sealed. Top of pistons all uniform black no evidence of water getting in cylinders from manifolds no evidence seen of a cracked cylinder wall. Reassembled, ran a couple hours at idle more water getting in oil now. I replaced the oil cooler when we did the heads. Engine runs smoothly on all eight, starts with no problem no evidence of hydrostatic lock but getting water in oil. People telling me block is cracked below piston ring travel area but I have trouble beliving that a crack would not travel all the way up cylinder wall. Does anybody know anything that might cause oil in water other than a crack in the block. Engine is raw water cooled not fresh.

Also, can this boat reach planing speed if I repower with a chrysler 318, if so, what trans. ratio, what diameter and pitch prop. Are motor mounts in same exact location as the 440. Would very much appreciate anyones expertise thank you !!! Also looking for good condition fresh water cooled chrysler 440 or 318 if I can use it in this boat to buy. Thanks again.
 
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It's possible that the water might be coming in from the exhaust manifolds seeing it runs so well. That said, I would not even consider going with a 318, for everything is different from a 440; you'd have to mess with the prop as well. Finally, your gas mileage will be WORSE unless you only putt-putt around.

I'd say, find a 440 block, swap over your marine parts, and you'll be much better off.

Jeff
 
Are you sure it's water and not gas? I've seen it more than once. Everybody was sure it was water and turned out to be gas.
 
If the motor has been raw water cooled all its life it is very possible that it has rusted through at the bottom of the block water jacket, which is below the frost plugs, and the lower ring line. I have a M383 with this exact problem on my bench from an engine I was to rebuild last fall. It has a few Cavity pits in that area and leaks through. I used a fresh block and built the engine as fresh water cooled. If you want to take the time isolate and plug all the cooling lines in and out of the block. Drain the oil. Mix up some water with red dye in it. Fill the block and take it to 20 psi. If the red water shows up in the oil pan but not the cyls you will need a block or complete engine. This is the draw back of fresh water cooled engines and 30 years use. The reason I only built fresh water cooled engines. Although a bit time consuming this method pin points the problem. I usually isolate the manifolds from this test as they can be removed, hooked to air pressure and dunked in a tank to test them.
Hope this helps.
Dan
 
Tahoerover said:
Are you sure it's water and not gas? I've seen it more than once. Everybody was sure it was water and turned out to be gas.
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Thank you all for your responses. The substance filling up the crankcase vent and on the inside of the oil fill tube as well as inside valve the covers and lifter valley when we did the headgasket job was a milky cream colored stuff. After doing the head gaskets the same colored stuff is again present. We changed the oil and oil filter twice after doing the job. But I think you might be on to something when you say it might be gas, probably hopeful self delusion given this is a boat engine !!! But I have not taken this boat out and put it under load. Have only put maybe a total of 3 hours run time at maybe 1100 rpm at dockside and the engine has gone through about twenty gallons of gas alot even for a 440 I think. Clean exhaust some gas fumes but no clouds of smoke. How can I tell if it is gas not water? Oil on dipstick motled color with cream colored stuff on tip. Does not smell like gas though. I understand that bad fuel pump diaphram can cause gas to get in oil any way to be sure??? Thank you again. Anybody have a good fresh water cooled 440 for sale.
 
Just a thought. I did have a fellow who brought me a ski boat with a 400 Chrysler big block that would milk the oil after a change within 2 hours. After all the normal test it turned out to be a cooling system problem that was keeping the sides of the block so cold that condensation was forming in the crankcase and turning the oil milky. It was a raw water cooled engine with the standard 140 deg stat, that was failing. To fix other problems not related, as well as the engine being run in 40 deg F water early and late in the year we fresh water cooled the engine and ran it at 160, made some changes to the way the crankcase breathed and it cleared up the oil problem completely.
Maybe your engine is running too cold in the block area, the side of the block below the frost plugs and around the frost plugs should not be cold but fairly warm. Just a thought.
Dan
 
If the oil doesn't smell like gas, then its not gas. Like 510 says you could try to plug all the coolant ports and pressurize the block 25-30 psi and listen for the leaks.

Or you might pull the intake and valley pan. Check for cracks along the walls behind the push rods.
 
canoe1 said:
How can I tell if it is gas not water?
Click to expand...

Water having a higher density than oil will settle to the bottom like in the picture. Gas having a lower density than oil will float on the top.


-JJ
images_emulsion_experiment_part1_pr.jpg
 
Tahoerover said:
Are you sure it's water and not gas? I've seen it more than once. Everybody was sure it was water and turned out to be gas.
Click to expand...
Ran engine today at idle or a little above 1100 rpm, checked oil on dip stick creamy stuff on tip but oil has lost viscosity and DOES smell heavily of gasoline. Can gasoline in oil give the same creamy stuff as water in oil??? Thank you for your suggestion. Should I remove and replace fuel pump change oil again and see if this is the problem or is this not likely to be the issue based on if gas makes the oil the same color etc. as water in oil. Thank you again for this idea
 
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