1966 Evinrude 60hp -Running rough

[Mikka8701]

I recently got this 1966 Evinrude sport-four model 60652 tuned up by my mechanic however it is running extremely poor.
The reason why I say this is because it feels likes its only running on two cylinders instead of 4 .I say this because when the engine is running i will pull the ignition leads off the sparks plugs to see if the engine struggle and only seems to affect two cylinders at any one time. It a strange problem because it keeps swaping from two cylinders on one side to the other when using the slow speed adjustment needles. I am trying to idle the engine correctly with the slow speed needles but i want to make sure both that all 4 cylinders are firing.

I have no idea how to fix this problem.

Note:
I have checked for sparks on all four plugs all are ok
Fully cleaned the carb, float and slow speed needles.
Have pressure tested the engine all 4 seem really good.
The engine is in neutral when testing the engine and is not in a test tank.

Do outboard engines work on two cylinders when in neutral ?
What other adjustments could be made to fix this, the thing that is throwing me off is the fact that when adjusting the slow speed knobs the cylinders switch to different sides of the engine meaning that all four do work just not all at once.

Any help or suggestion would be appreciated as I have to take the boat out this weekend.

 

[Boobie]

What is your initial setting on the slow speed needles ??

 

[racerone]

It runs on all 4 at idle.----Seems you missed something in the carburetor.--------Did you remove the high speed jets that are way inside behind those drain plugs.

 

[Mikka8701]

It runs on all 4 at idle.----Seems you missed something in the carburetor.--------Did you remove the high speed jets that are way inside behind those drain plugs.

I don't know where the high speed jets are located. Do you think this could affect idle? Do you have a picture of where this is located?

 

[Mikka8701]

What is your initial setting on the slow speed needles ??

In the Evinrude manual it told me to gently seat the needles. So i screwed them all the way in until they don't turn in anymore gently (Clockwise) and then turned the needle (Counterclockwise) 1 1/2 turns.

 

[joereeves]

(Carburetor Adjustments - Older V/4 Downdraft Carb)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE: The early model downdraft carburetors incorporated "Adjustable High Speed Jets". The later model downdraft carburetors used "Fixed High Speed Jets". The high speed jets would be located in back of the two bottom drain screws. Follow the below instructions accordingly.

NOTE: If you do not have adjustable high speed jets, ignore those paragraphs pertaining to same...... BUT do make sure that you manually inspect and clean the two brass fixed high speed jets which would be located in back of the two 7/16" slotted hex head bolts in the bottom front portion of the float chamber.


Lift the center High Speed Control lever and turn it so that the point faces forward, resting on the high ridge. This will disengage the lever control gear from the individual high speed jets (slots). Have the slow speed needle valve knobs installed upside down so that they can be turned without encountering any obstruction.


Gently seat each of the High Speed needle valves, then back each one out one (1) turn. Gently seat each of the Slow Speed needle valves, then back each one out one and one half (1-1/2) turns. NOTE... have the jam nut on the s/speed needles snug so that vibration won't have any effect on them, but loose enough so that you can turn them without a great amount of effort.


(High Speed)
With a reliable person at the wheel, and one kneeling in front of the engine, start the engine (yes, it will run lousy with the above initial needle valve settings), put it into forward gear, and apply full throttle. Start with the High Speed adjustment on the left using a screwdriver that properly fits the slot.


(High Speed Adjustments)
At full throttle, with the proper size screwdriver, slowly start turning one of the H/S needles in segments of 1/8 turn, waiting momentarily for the engine to respond, then repeat turning. You will reach a point where the engine will start to die out. At that point, back that needle valve out approximately 1/4 turn. Now, go to the other High Speed needle valve and repeat that procedure. At some point in that 1/4 turn out, you will find the smoothest high speed setting (you can now lower the throttle rpm). That will have both high speed needle valves set correctly, and at that point you can lift that center lever adjustment of that high ridge, keeping it lifted until the point is facing the engine, then lower it into its proper position. (When you turn that lever now, you're adjusting both High Speed needle valves at the same time.)


(Slow Speed Adjustments)
Now, lowering the rpms of course, take the engine out of gear and set the throttle just to where the engine will stay running. Again, in segments of 1/8 turn, slowly start turning in one of the slow speed needle valves, waiting a few seconds between each turning for the engine to respond. As you turn the s/speed needles in, the rpms will increase..... and as it does, lower the rpms to where the engine will just stay running (otherwise the rpms will climb quite high). You will reach a point whereas the engine will either start to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back the needle valve out 1/4 turn. Repeat the process with the remaining slow speed needle. Again, at some point in that 1/4 turn out, you will find the smoothest setting. When finished, tighten the jam nut somewhat, then remove and reinstall the s/speed knobs correctly (right side up).

 

[Mikka8701]

Do you think adjusting these high speed needles should fix the problem of only firing on two cylinders to four?
why does the engine have to be put into toward gear and not neutral?

Thanks for the detailed response

(Carburetor Adjustments - Older V/4 Downdraft Carb)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE: The early model downdraft carburetors incorporated "Adjustable High Speed Jets". The later model downdraft carburetors used "Fixed High Speed Jets". The high speed jets would be located in back of the two bottom drain screws. Follow the below instructions accordingly.

NOTE: If you do not have adjustable high speed jets, ignore those paragraphs pertaining to same...... BUT do make sure that you manually inspect and clean the two brass fixed high speed jets which would be located in back of the two 7/16" slotted hex head bolts in the bottom front portion of the float chamber.


Lift the center High Speed Control lever and turn it so that the point faces forward, resting on the high ridge. This will disengage the lever control gear from the individual high speed jets (slots). Have the slow speed needle valve knobs installed upside down so that they can be turned without encountering any obstruction.


Gently seat each of the High Speed needle valves, then back each one out one (1) turn. Gently seat each of the Slow Speed needle valves, then back each one out one and one half (1-1/2) turns. NOTE... have the jam nut on the s/speed needles snug so that vibration won't have any effect on them, but loose enough so that you can turn them without a great amount of effort.


(High Speed)
With a reliable person at the wheel, and one kneeling in front of the engine, start the engine (yes, it will run lousy with the above initial needle valve settings), put it into forward gear, and apply full throttle. Start with the High Speed adjustment on the left using a screwdriver that properly fits the slot.


(High Speed Adjustments)
At full throttle, with the proper size screwdriver, slowly start turning one of the H/S needles in segments of 1/8 turn, waiting momentarily for the engine to respond, then repeat turning. You will reach a point where the engine will start to die out. At that point, back that needle valve out approximately 1/4 turn. Now, go to the other High Speed needle valve and repeat that procedure. At some point in that 1/4 turn out, you will find the smoothest high speed setting (you can now lower the throttle rpm). That will have both high speed needle valves set correctly, and at that point you can lift that center lever adjustment of that high ridge, keeping it lifted until the point is facing the engine, then lower it into its proper position. (When you turn that lever now, you're adjusting both High Speed needle valves at the same time.)


(Slow Speed Adjustments)
Now, lowering the rpms of course, take the engine out of gear and set the throttle just to where the engine will stay running. Again, in segments of 1/8 turn, slowly start turning in one of the slow speed needle valves, waiting a few seconds between each turning for the engine to respond. As you turn the s/speed needles in, the rpms will increase..... and as it does, lower the rpms to where the engine will just stay running (otherwise the rpms will climb quite high). You will reach a point whereas the engine will either start to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back the needle valve out 1/4 turn. Repeat the process with the remaining slow speed needle. Again, at some point in that 1/4 turn out, you will find the smoothest setting. When finished, tighten the jam nut somewhat, then remove and reinstall the s/speed knobs correctly (right side up).

 

[Mikka8701]

It is allways best to adjust the slow needles in the water under a load. It takes alot less fuel to make it idle in neutral, then when you put a load on the engine there is not enough fuel to run properly. Allways error a little on the rich side counterclockwise. Engine oil is mixed with the fuel and if running it too lean is the same as running low on oil. Especially if you do alot of slow speed operation (trolling). Run it rich to protect the motor it also helps on cold starts and the hole shot.

So will the fuel being delivered to all cylinders be caused by the slow speed needle adjustments?
given that there are two slow speed knobs would I be correct in assuming that each knob controls two cylinders ? And the knob that controls the two cylinders is on the same side ?

 

[Mikka8701]

(Carburetor Adjustments - Older V/4 Downdraft Carb)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE: The early model downdraft carburetors incorporated "Adjustable High Speed Jets". The later model downdraft carburetors used "Fixed High Speed Jets". The high speed jets would be located in back of the two bottom drain screws. Follow the below instructions accordingly.

NOTE: If you do not have adjustable high speed jets, ignore those paragraphs pertaining to same...... BUT do make sure that you manually inspect and clean the two brass fixed high speed jets which would be located in back of the two 7/16" slotted hex head bolts in the bottom front portion of the float chamber.


Lift the center High Speed Control lever and turn it so that the point faces forward, resting on the high ridge. This will disengage the lever control gear from the individual high speed jets (slots). Have the slow speed needle valve knobs installed upside down so that they can be turned without encountering any obstruction.


Gently seat each of the High Speed needle valves, then back each one out one (1) turn. Gently seat each of the Slow Speed needle valves, then back each one out one and one half (1-1/2) turns. NOTE... have the jam nut on the s/speed needles snug so that vibration won't have any effect on them, but loose enough so that you can turn them without a great amount of effort.


(High Speed)
With a reliable person at the wheel, and one kneeling in front of the engine, start the engine (yes, it will run lousy with the above initial needle valve settings), put it into forward gear, and apply full throttle. Start with the High Speed adjustment on the left using a screwdriver that properly fits the slot.


(High Speed Adjustments)
At full throttle, with the proper size screwdriver, slowly start turning one of the H/S needles in segments of 1/8 turn, waiting momentarily for the engine to respond, then repeat turning. You will reach a point where the engine will start to die out. At that point, back that needle valve out approximately 1/4 turn. Now, go to the other High Speed needle valve and repeat that procedure. At some point in that 1/4 turn out, you will find the smoothest high speed setting (you can now lower the throttle rpm). That will have both high speed needle valves set correctly, and at that point you can lift that center lever adjustment of that high ridge, keeping it lifted until the point is facing the engine, then lower it into its proper position. (When you turn that lever now, you're adjusting both High Speed needle valves at the same time.)


(Slow Speed Adjustments)
Now, lowering the rpms of course, take the engine out of gear and set the throttle just to where the engine will stay running. Again, in segments of 1/8 turn, slowly start turning in one of the slow speed needle valves, waiting a few seconds between each turning for the engine to respond. As you turn the s/speed needles in, the rpms will increase..... and as it does, lower the rpms to where the engine will just stay running (otherwise the rpms will climb quite high). You will reach a point whereas the engine will either start to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back the needle valve out 1/4 turn. Repeat the process with the remaining slow speed needle. Again, at some point in that 1/4 turn out, you will find the smoothest setting. When finished, tighten the jam nut somewhat, then remove and reinstall the s/speed knobs correctly (right side up).

I attempted to do what you said withy the slow speed knobs and clean the high speed needles which are fixed still not running on all fours and the motor still shakes quite abit.


Do you think it may be to do with the timing being a little off? I can't think of anything else

 

[joereeves]

I attempted to do what you said withy the slow speed knobs and clean the high speed needles which are fixed still not running on all fours and the motor still shakes quite abit. Do you think it may be to do with the timing being a little off? I can't think of anything else

The two small black egg shaped knobs on the front of that carburetor are "Slow Speed" adjustment needle valves. They are for adjusting the idle speed only.

Your 1966 model should NOT have high speed adjustable needle valves BUT should have two fixed brass jets way in back of the two slotted hex head drain bolts at the bottom front portion of the carburetor. Those two brass jets must be absolutely clean. You can carefully clean them with a piece of single strand steel wire.

Does that engine have magneto or automotive igniiton?

Have you checked the compression and spark? If not do so. Let us know what the compression psi readings are for each individual cylinders.... also the spark must jump a 1/4" gap with a strong blue lightning like flame... a real SNAP! Does it? Note that the 1/4" gap is important... DO NOT attempt to check the spark by using your spark plugs as that is a waste of time.

You need to determine whether your problem is due to an ignition... OR... fuel... OR... a mechanical problem.

Have you owned this engine for some time and this problem just popped up... OR... is it new to you? Explain the circumstances.

 

[Mikka8701]

The two small black egg shaped knobs on the front of that carburetor are "Slow Speed" adjustment needle valves. They are for adjusting the idle speed only.

Your 1966 model should NOT have high speed adjustable needle valves BUT should have two fixed brass jets way in back of the two slotted hex head drain bolts at the bottom front portion of the carburetor. Those two brass jets must be absolutely clean. You can carefully clean them with a piece of single strand steel wire.

Does that engine have magneto or automotive igniiton?

Have you checked the compression and spark? If not do so. Let us know what the compression psi readings are for each individual cylinders.... also the spark must jump a 1/4" gap with a strong blue lightning like flame... a real SNAP! Does it? Note that the 1/4" gap is important... DO NOT attempt to check the spark by using your spark plugs as that is a waste of time.

You need to determine whether your problem is due to an ignition... OR... fuel... OR... a mechanical problem.

Have you owned this engine for some time and this problem just popped up... OR... is it new to you? Explain the circumstances.

I located the two brass jets and attempted to clean then with Carb cleaner. I also shined a torch in there to make sure they appeared clean.

My engine has a magneto ?
I have also checked the compression and all where within %10 of each other. I can post results if you like when i get home of the PSI.The spark on the plugs is extremely strong i changed them to brand new ones last week.

I have had this engine for appox 1 year and have since been trying to restore my boat in the meantime so i have spent about 2 months trying to get the engine up and running.

 

[Mikka8701]

Yes we like to see numbers and when you say it has a strong spark at the plug tells us you have not done a spark gap test. Stick a phillips screwdriver in the spark plug wires and hold it approximately 1/4 inch away from a good ground. Chip a little paint off a bolt if you need to it must jump the gap with a brite blue snap.

Arent the plugs pre gapped to specs already ? They are b8hs ngk's. I have taken the plugs out and ran the motor with one of the plugs exposed and was attached to a solid ground it had such a strong spark all around the plug?

 

[racerone]

Not good enuff !------You need to establish a gap of 5/16" for a proper spark test.---You can not do a proper test with the sparkplug !

 

[Mikka8701]

Get some champion J4C plugs and always check the gap before installing the plug, never trust they are correct. Set them exactly .030

I will check the plugs tonight by testing the spark on all four plugs with the screw driver method. I will post the results tonight. If the spark is fine is there a chance it could still be a timing issue? Maybe the timing is slightly off ?

When outboards are in idle are they meant to run fast or are they really slow ?

If it helps i can take a video and attempt to upload it tonight in terms of how its running atm ?

I also noticed the NGK B8HS plugs come pre gapped at .024" (0.61mm) and i havnt adjusted them could this also be the issue?

Thanks for all your help so far...

 

[Mikka8701]

I will check the plugs tonight by testing the spark on all four plugs with the screw driver method. I will post the results tonight. If the spark is fine is there a chance it could still be a timing issue? Maybe the timing is slightly off ?

When outboards are in idle are they meant to run fast or are they really slow ?

If it helps i can take a video and attempt to upload it tonight in terms of how its running atm ?

I also noticed the NGK B8HS plugs come pre gapped at .024" (0.61mm) and i havnt adjusted them could this also be the issue?

Thanks for all your help so far...

i posted a video for you guys to watch http://youtu.be/7_O4DsoWLgY

 

[Mikka8701]

Get some champion J4C plugs and allways check the gap before installing the plug, never trust they are correct. Set them exactly .030

I regaped the plugs to .030 and I have put a video of the engine running the link is above this post could you take a look and let me know what you think.