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130HP Apparant fuel Issue

S

ss396fish

Contributing Member
I have had a tread working on the Johnson forum for a couple of weeks about low fuel pressure. I must not be living right but myself and a couple of buds have a 2000 130 Honda acting the same d__n way. Takes off, runs good, falls on it's face. Can pump the primer bulb and run to Mexico and back. Have pulled pickup in tank, knocked out anti siphon valve, new lines to motor, took off quick connect and changed low pressure fuel pump, Also the criminally expensive high pressure filter which has to done almost yearly. After I gave up a local mechanic took apart the high pressure pump and could find nothing wrong with it. He has now taken it to the Honda dealer. Anyone have any thoughts?
 
More questions than answers...

Is this motor new to you?

Has this always happened or has it just started?

When it fails and you squeeze the bulb, do you squeeze it just the one time and then it runs ok? Or do you have to keep squeezing the bulb for the motor to continue to run?

Has any work been done on this motor just before this started? Like work on head or valve clearances adjusted....valve cover removed?

Has the local mechanic checked compression? Fuel pressure?

See....lots of questions.

Mike
 
hondadude said:
More questions than answers...

Is this motor new to you?

Has this always happened or has it just started?

When it fails and you squeeze the bulb, do you squeeze it just the one time and then it runs ok? Or do you have to keep squeezing the bulb for the motor to continue to run?

Has any work been done on this motor just before this started? Like work on head or valve clearances adjusted....valve cover removed?

Has the local mechanic checked compression? Fuel pressure?

See....lots of questions.

Mike
Click to expand...

Have had motor 10 or 12 years. Owner disclosed it was trapped under a dock on a rising tide and went under. Was taken to dealer dried out and a new starter installed. No issues since that I know of. Whenever these symptoms have happened in the past a high pressure filter fixed it. When it stalls it takes a few squeezes to tighten up bulb then away we go sonetimes for maybe 10min. but more likely only1/4 or 1/2 mile. This motor had 10yr. head warranty but of course mine lasted 11. This same guy installed new head around 2012. Has run fine since. Don't think compression was checked, don't know about fuel pressure. Just like my 90 Johnson it runs great right up till it dont. Will putter at 1500 indefinately in gear, or at least past no wake which takes about 15-20 min. Thanks for answer.
 
Sounds like a fuel starvation issue....which you have already mentioned...

You seemed to have eliminated potential restrictions from the tank to the engine.

In an ideal world, the next thing to check would be fuel pressure. Most likely, you do not have a gauge, so this will be a little hit and miss....hopefully hit.

If I understood correctly, if someone keeps squeezing the bulb, the motor will run fine.

If that is the case, then compression, high pressure fuel pressure is probably ok.

It appears that somehow the low pressure pump (which you said is new) is not either drawing enough from the tank (possibly air in the line) or the pump is not pushing it thoroughly into the vapor separator bowl or the float in the vapor separator is closing off before the fuel gets to the proper level.

It might be possible that the vent in the vapor separator is clogged. It is the hose that comes off the top of the vapor separator and runs straight up through a filter to the top of the engine. Most people do not change that filter and if it is clogged, it could impede fuel flow into the vapor separator. You can test just by pulling the hose off the nipple on the vapor separator and blowing through it....or even running the engine without it attached for a test.

The other possibility, although you said the valve clearances have not been checked.....
I asked about that, because if someone takes the valve cover off and is not careful when working with the adjustments, they can rotate the low pressure filter cam out of place. The result would be that the low pressure fuel pump would work, but it would not pump as strong as it should and the motor will only run at lower speeds. The fuel pump cam is part #10 http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H.../BF130A4 LA/CAMSHAFT CYLINDER HEAD/parts.html

Another possibility is one of the hoses on the engine could be slightly collapsed or an internal piece of the hose lodged itself in the intake of the vapor separator....slightly blocking the flow of fuel.

To check for air in the line....get a short piece of plastic hose and insert it in various places in place of some of the fuel line on the engine. If you put it between the low pressure pump and the vapor separator and there are no bubbles when you throttle it up under load, then it is not sucking air....and you can go to other things. If there are bubbles.....then move it along the fuel lines on the engine back to the tank, until the bubbles go away. Then you will have located the problem.

It is just going to be a process of elimination until you find it.

Mike
 
Good info! I do have fuel pressure gauge but me and it are in NC and boat 's in Fla. Got tired of driving 500 mi. to work on the boat. That's when we turned it over to the the local mechanic. After making another trip to fish after low pressure pump replaced to find same problem and he did'nt find anything wrong with high pressure pump he has taken it to dealer. Hopefully they know to run test procedure you described. Glad to have your info so I can make sense of what they tell me because I know nothing of their reputation and can know enough to recognize if I'm getting smoke blown up my arse. Thank you! Brian
 
hondadude said:
Sounds like a fuel starvation issue....which you have already mentioned...

You seemed to have eliminated potential restrictions from the tank to the engine.

In an ideal world, the next thing to check would be fuel pressure. Most likely, you do not have a gauge, so this will be a little hit and miss....hopefully hit.

If I understood correctly, if someone keeps squeezing the bulb, the motor will run fine.

If that is the case, then compression, high pressure fuel pressure is probably ok.

It appears that somehow the low pressure pump (which you said is new) is not either drawing enough from the tank (possibly air in the line) or the pump is not pushing it thoroughly into the vapor separator bowl or the float in the vapor separator is closing off before the fuel gets to the proper level.

It might be possible that the vent in the vapor separator is clogged. It is the hose that comes off the top of the vapor separator and runs straight up through a filter to the top of the engine. Most people do not change that filter and if it is clogged, it could impede fuel flow into the vapor separator. You can test just by pulling the hose off the nipple on the vapor separator and blowing through it....or even running the engine without it attached for a test.

The other possibility, although you said the valve clearances have not been checked.....
I asked about that, because if someone takes the valve cover off and is not careful when working with the adjustments, they can rotate the low pressure filter cam out of place. The result would be that the low pressure fuel pump would work, but it would not pump as strong as it should and the motor will only run at lower speeds. The fuel pump cam is part #10 http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H.../BF130A4 LA/CAMSHAFT CYLINDER HEAD/parts.html

Another possibility is one of the hoses on the engine could be slightly collapsed or an internal piece of the hose lodged itself in the intake of the vapor separator....slightly blocking the flow of fuel.

To check for air in the line....get a short piece of plastic hose and insert it in various places in place of some of the fuel line on the engine. If you put it between the low pressure pump and the vapor separator and there are no bubbles when you throttle it up under load, then it is not sucking air....and you can go to other things. If there are bubbles.....then move it along the fuel lines on the engine back to the tank, until the bubbles go away. Then you will have located the problem.

It is just going to be a process of elimination until you find it.

Mike
Click to expand...
Heading back down there tomorrow to see what dealer did. Gonna take fuel pressure guage with me. Where would you
put it in line? I'm thinking between low pressure pump and vapor seperator. What should the pressure numbers be? Thanks!
 
Not sure what they should be there. The suction from the tank should be around 3 lbs or so. It would seem that the positive pressure would be somewhere there or more.

You might also did up a small piece of clear plastic hose and insert it there to see if there are any air bubbles. If so, then move it to the other side of the lp pump and see if you get it there. If so, keep moving it from junction to junction back toward the fuel tank. When the bubbles go away, you have just pasted the problem point.

Mike
 
Well I feel like an idiot. Local mechanic said the low pressure filter never stopped up so that was the only thing That was not changed. So with new fuel pump and dealer changing the other filters that only had 2 hours on them due to no communication between phone guy and shop, I only have 600 bucks invested in a 33 dollar filter. Live and learn..... Now have something else going on. Will start new thread
 
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