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Crusader 1996 454XLT Hot start problems (ECUs issue?}

Port Engine first: We relocated pump and both filters on a plate near the back and bottom of the tank onto the stringers. Tank supply line from the "anti-syphon" fitting now much shorter and directly to the primary gas water separator filter. High pressure line goes directly from secondary filter to the back of the T.B. doing away with the original O.E.M. tubing. Also developed a direct return line from the T.B. to the tank also doing away with the O.E.M. tubing. All components meet ABYC and USCG requirements. To compare both gas delivery systems, the Starboard engine remain the same with original gas tube system directly mounted to the engine. After multiple sea-trails (testing) the starboard engine continued having the "hot" start / stall problem we were experiencing. But the port engine started perfectly! We now have converted the starboard engine with the new style gas delivery / return system. Due to our crappy weather lately, test (sea-trials) has gone well but limited. Both engines have started at "hot" shutdown multiple times through several hours of testing. I feel confident the new style system has corrected our problem finally after over 3 seasons dealing with this problem and testing without really confirming the true causes that totally limited use of our boat. Thanks to everyone for their input on this crazy situation!
 
Captainfredsr said:
To answer, spray pattern seems good. I have been questioning the quality of the gas causing my engine staring issues. Finally had a chance to do a visual comparison. Information on what I see as follows: Note in December 2024 I put approximately 70 gallons in each tank gas ( tanks are 173 gallon capacity and no crossover} that gave me just over 3/4 level in each tank three days before pulling for the winter. Currently I purchased a gallon of gas in a gas-container ( ValvTect, brand ) from my marina as normal. Its extremely clear. Back on 4/10/2025 replaced primary filters and the gas has a slightly amber tint and the media was clean, no water dropout. On 6/14/2025 changed both filters again, this gas is slightly darker amber tint (but almost the same) and again the media is clean and no water dropout. Unfortunately not sure which tank since I have samples from both sides. Both engines continue to have the same continuing problem when at normal engine temperature, will start but will not stay running after sea tail for about 45 minutes to an hour. Cold starts are fine, no problem. I've been running the boat around the area to drawn down as much of the tank gas a possible before adding new. Could this tint be to much additive causing my hot start issue? (vapor in the high pressure lines at the TB's) Will be pursuing this gas samples with the marina owners shorty. What do you think?
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What color was the fuel (related to the color of the additive)?Fuel stabilizer doesn't burn as well as gasoline, so using far too much could cause a roblem but it shouldn't cause what you're experiencing.

I haven't seen it mentioned (didn't read all of the posts closely)- have you checked the fuel tank vent lines? Clogged vents can cause problems that aren't always easy to find.

Have you run the boat with the engine cover partially open, to determine if that eliminates the symptom?
 
jimn said:
Related to the color of the additive)?Fuel stabilizer doesn't burn as well as gasoline, so using far too much could cause a roblem but it shouldn't cause what you're experiencing.

I haven't seen it mentioned (didn't read all of the posts closely)- have you checked the fuel tank vent lines? Clogged vents can cause problems that aren't always easy to find.

Have you run the boat with the engine cover partially open, to determine if that eliminates the symptom?
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The color of the gas per our marina operator could be aged gasoline and/ or the additives even though I add at least 60-80 gallons which filled the tanks to over 3/4 every year at the end of the season since use of the boat was limited. I'm still wonder if last top-off last year (2024) I got a abnormal amount of additives from the gas supplier of ValvTect. (We'll never know) Lately this season I ran both tanks down as far as possible (about 20 gallons) using a "measuring stick" without taking a chance of being towed back to the slip then added fresh gas to half tank. This didn't help the hot start issue. I haven't changed the filters yet to compare the original samples. Also yes we had checked or replaced all vent, supply and return lines. In the past we did leave the tank caps loose and the engine bilge hatch open and the bowers "ON" on our sea-trails to eliminate those two possibilities. There were no changes on the hot start problem. At this point, (October) with both gas delivery systems relocated, engines have run as normal at all RPM's and both start correctly after shutdown at anytime. The problem seems to finally be corrected so far with our sea-trails. Still need more time on the water to convince myself this was the answer to the problem although we may never know why it started in the first place!
 
Captainfredsr said:
The color of the gas per our marina operator could be aged gasoline and/ or the additives even though I add at least 60-80 gallons which filled the tanks to over 3/4 every year at the end of the season since use of the boat was limited. I'm still wonder if last top-off last year (2024) I got a abnormal amount of additives from the gas supplier of ValvTect. (We'll never know) Lately this season I ran both tanks down as far as possible (about 20 gallons) using a "measuring stick" without taking a chance of being towed back to the slip then added fresh gas to half tank. This didn't help the hot start issue. I haven't changed the filters yet to compare the original samples. Also yes we had checked or replaced all vent, supply and return lines. In the past we did leave the tank caps loose and the engine bilge hatch open and the bowers "ON" on our sea-trails to eliminate those two possibilities. There were no changes on the hot start problem. At this point, (October) with both gas delivery systems relocated, engines have run as normal at all RPM's and both start correctly after shutdown at anytime. The problem seems to finally be corrected so far with our sea-trails. Still need more time on the water to convince myself this was the answer to the problem although we may never know why it started in the first place!
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Does/did it smell like fresh gas, or is it funky?
 
jimn said:
Does/did it smell like fresh gas, or is it funky?
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funky so I do leave since usage was limited, the addition of fresh gas each year was not enough to overcome the original gas in the tanks. tanks are 173 capacity with about 12 gallons of "unusable gas" per (Ocean techs) gives me 158 gallons without running dry. (per tank)
 
Captainfredsr said:
funky so I do leave since usage was limited, the addition of fresh gas each year was not enough to overcome the original gas in the tanks. tanks are 173 capacity with about 12 gallons of "unusable gas" per (Ocean techs) gives me 158 gallons without running dry. (per tank)
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Take a fuel sample anytime bad performance occurs unexpectedly- if the gas contains Ethanol, it will absorb water from the air due to temperature changes that effectively cause the tank to 'breathe'. The temperature drops, the air inside contracts, drawing more air in mand when the temperature goes up, the air expands, expelling some air. As humidity in the tank increases, the Ethanol works its magic and some of the water mixes with the Ethanol, then phase separation occurs. This is seen as a milky substance that's heavier than the gasoline, so it lays at the bottom of the tank, right where the fuel pickup tube reaches. If the engine ran better intermittently on choppy water, it likely means that layer had been partially dispersed in the clean fuel. There's no good way to mix anything in order to eliminate this layer- it must be removed and since your engine is from '96, it wasn't designed for high % of Ethanol.

If phase separation occurred and it contains a significant amount of water, 12 gallons is a lot of bad gas.

If you have a fuel/water separator, it probably filled with the combination of fuel and water and bypassed, so the bad fuel was sent to the engine.

If we only had a choice......
 
Captainfredsr said:
Port Engine first: We relocated pump and both filters on a plate near the back and bottom of the tank onto the stringers. Tank supply line from the "anti-syphon" fitting now much shorter and directly to the primary gas water separator filter. High pressure line goes directly from secondary filter to the back of the T.B. doing away with the original O.E.M. tubing. Also developed a direct return line from the T.B. to the tank also doing away with the O.E.M. tubing. All components meet ABYC and USCG requirements. To compare both gas delivery systems, the Starboard engine remain the same with original gas tube system directly mounted to the engine. After multiple sea-trails (testing) the starboard engine continued having the "hot" start / stall problem we were experiencing. But the port engine started perfectly! We now have converted the starboard engine with the new style gas delivery / return system. Due to our crappy weather lately, test (sea-trials) has gone well but limited. Both engines have started at "hot" shutdown multiple times through several hours of testing. I feel confident the new style system has corrected our problem finally after over 3 seasons dealing with this problem and testing without really confirming the true causes that totally limited use of our boat. Thanks to everyone for their input on this crazy situation!
Click to expand...
Fred, I've been following this thread and your prior troubles back to 2023 when I was having SAME "no re-start" problem on one engine. I responded then that my mechanic disconnected fuel return to TB, plugged return port and returned fuel to tank. Problem solved! If you're still having issue, try this work-around. FWIW, the tank had a fitting that permitted the return line to be connected without alot of befitting.
 
CaptJoe3 said:
Fred, I've been following this thread and your prior troubles back to 2023 when I was having SAME "no re-start" problem on one engine. I responded then that my mechanic disconnected fuel return to TB, plugged return port and returned fuel to tank. Problem solved! If you're still having issue, try this work-around. FWIW, the tank had a fitting that permitted the return line to be connected without alot of befitting.
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Forgot to mention, my engines are 454XL TBis, 1993 and 1994. Only one had the problem (starboard, Reverse rotation) We are convinced it was a heat related/vapor lock issue. In our case, was never able to restart after extended cool down without priming pump.
 
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