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Force 1989 85HP Synchronization

L

lgaytan

Member
Hi I need some help for the synchronization of my Force 85HP motor.
I have the Seloc manual and have seen some videos but still I have some doubts.
First thing according to the manual is to check the throttle cam inscribed line alignment to the roller on the excentric screw. Doing this by removing the cam link from the throttle tower (sorry if I'm mixing some names, I don't have the manual infront of me), once aligned turn the excentric screw until it barely touches the cam.
After that I'm supposed to attach the cam link to the tower again, but that now changes the possition I left the cam before, is it supposed the cam line and roller remain aligned at that point?
Then according to Seloc I should verify that the Carburetors are opening and closing evenly with the link bar that is attached to the 3 carburetors, I noticed that the bottom carb was a little bit off, when making the adjustment there, the previous adjustment went off, so I guess like some videos I have seen this step had to be done before.
Next I should push the throttle tower to WOT stop and verify if carbs open completely, there comes more questions not explained in the manual or videos.
1. I assume I should disconect the throttle cable from the remote control in order to do this.
2. My carbs were not opening completely when pushed the throttle tower to WOT sop, I'm supposed to adjust this by making adjustments to the cam/tower link, when I got the carbs to open fully (making larger the link) when I got back to neutral the possition of the cam vs excentric was off again, is this adjustment done this way?
3. I found also that when pushing the remote control to WOT the cable was not moving enough to move the tower to WOT stop, is this adjustment made in the cables? in order to get the tower to move completely? I did that and then what I observed is that the tower now didn't returned fully to what we had as Idle stop.

Well too many questions to put here, I'm looking to see if there is any other good video or other thread that explains fully this procedure, the Seloc or other videos I have seen missed some of the things I have doubts.

Thank you
 
Google "link and sync Chrysler Force outboard"This shows a lot of links to help.
If Seloc is all you can get? it's not the best. Find the factory manual.
Frank Acampora did a good video on the procedure, see if you can find it?
iboats covers the repair real well.
 
Thanks Jerry,
I redid all adjustments last night, and seems to be working better. My main concern was that I couldn't get the throttle tower to the WOT stop with the remote, I noticed that the cam was stiff, I lossen the nut and lubricated it, now I'm able to get to the WOT stop.
I will check this weekend the idle speed, I read in previous threads you recommended 1000-1100 RPMS in muffs and 800 - 900 idle in gear, is that right? Can I check in gear RPM's in a big bucket or this only can be checked in a lake?
After that is done I will check on static timing 28° BDC is what is recommended?

Another thing I'm planning to repair is leak on the lower unit, I see according the diagram there is only 1 prop shaft seal, is that right? all videos I have seen for other outboard brands shows 2, is Force different on that?

Regards
 
Yes, just 1 seal on the prop shaft. It's not cheap about 25-30$ F586118-1
The idle should be set in the water along with the in drive setting.
Idle about 800 650-700 in gear.
With the right prop and not overloaded about 5400-5500(some vary)
In a bucket it can be (N)as much as 1000.
Static can be done on a hose/bucket.
 
Here's a post that was lost then recovered.
From another forum.
Take a look, FrankA was the BEST older Force/Chrysler guy on the net, he's been sorely missed since his passing :(

Synchronizing Carbs and timing on a 75-150 Chrysler or early Force

In order for these engines to idle correctly and acheive full rated RPM, it is necessary to sync the carbs and timing. Follow these steps: 1. Disconnect the ball link to the carb cam at the timing tower. Disconnecting at the cam risks bending the cam. Move the cam away from the carb roller...
forums.iboats.com forums.iboats.com
 
Thank you Jerry,
I think I have done the set up as Frank describes so I belive Sync is ok now.
I have set the Idle speed to 950 in bucket, but it doesn't seem very stable, it fluctuates from 800-950 RPM's, sounds a little bit rough, it doesn't stall and goes into gear without issue but doesn't sound very stable. I adjusted the Idle needle on the carbs as best as I could, I think I will have to take it to a lake to actually make the adjustments in idle in gear.
I didn't have the chance to check on the lower unit leak, maybe next weekend.

Thanks for the support I will post updates.
 
I missed the part where you mentioned Frank passed away, didn't know him but I have seen a lot messages from him in the iboats forum helping amateur mechanics/boaters as me. For sure he's missed by many people.
 
Do this test: start the motor, remove the hood, then take a can of starting fluid and spray around the intake side of the
motor. Around the carbs, under the coils/packs, all over.
If this makes any difference then it's sucking air somewhere??

Coughs and backfiring and running rough could be the port cover gaskets are bad and sucking air.
 
Now that you mention that, couple months ago I had to replace the Mid Carburetor, it was leaking fuel, anyways I didn't take much of attention or replaced the carburetor gasket, I could even have not put it there :oops: I will check on that, make some tests in the week end.

Thank you
 
Not yet, I have been distracted in the lower unit issue of the other thread, I will be testing this weekend probably, I ordered as well the carb intake gasket, as I mentioned I have changed top and middle carbs recently and never changed or inspected the gaskets, so I think they may have some wear, just waiting for all spares that are in the mail to get my hands on this motor again, I will give you updates.

Thank you
 
Hi Jerry,
Finally I got the chance to make the test and as you figured out when I spray starter fluid behind the carbs, the motor starts to bog, over all I think the motor is running stable just when I sprayed the starter fluid it bogs, I will order that seal and see when I can change it by now I will try to do the idle set up in water by the end of the month, hope it works well in water.

Thanks
 
From the video it shluld be the gasket

27-F85159-1 right? Gasket intke manifold.​

I don't wwnt to mess around more than needed, I have never got behind the carbs before is there anything special to pay attention while disassembling/assembling or should be an easy fix?

Thanks
 
I tightened the screws and seemed to work, spraying starter fluid dont make any change now, it surprised me that some screws I could turn about half a turn with ease, I didn't find torque specs anywhere so I just tightened firmly.
So even with that it still bogs, I adjusted the idle needle from the carbs and I found out that the lower carb seems to work much better between 1/2 to 3/4 of turn much better close to 1/2, I read somewhere that adjusting those needles below 1 turn could also damage a piston, is that right? Should I keep it in 1 turn even if it feels worse?

Thanks
 
I wouldn’t go under 1 turn, maybe a hair less but definitely not 3/4. Idle won’t be quite as smooth but at least you’re not running too lean.
 
The 85 Force , the air screws should be set at 1 turn out and left there.
The rod connecting the 3 carbs, does it move the butterflyi all 3 at the same time.
Are the butterflies all set the same?
Find the link and synk in one of the first 6 posts and see if that helps?
 
Thanks, I'll leave it at 1 turn as your suggestion not very smooth but don't want to damage anything,. Yes the rod moves the butterflies of the 3 carbs at the same time, I have already gone through that link and synk steps before, I will double check to see anything changed after all I have messed around after I did it.

Regards
 
Another question here, I can always see some fuel pooling in the carb intake little quantity couple drops, could this be an indicator of reed valves gone bad? See picture attached
 
That few drops is normal.
The sign that the reeds are bad is LOTS of fuel coming out the front when running.
These older motors didn't really idle all that great.
The 3 port covers under the fuel pump and coils/packs did you spray the starting fluid there?
The gaskets are famous for going bad,one tiny cough or backfire can blow the gaskets and cause the poor idle.
 
It's the little things that add up.
Used to work as a paper cup machine repair tech(horrible job) there was 50+ things to adjust to make the cup machine run perfect. ONE!!! tiny thing could throw the results way off. I've owned 6 88/85 Forces and they can be a pain but get it running right, they are great motors.
 
I haven't lost my faith in this motor, I think all this issues are age related, old seals/gaskets, carb tunning and things that with good diagnosis shouldn't be expensive or hard to fix, the key thing is the diagnosis and for that my friend you have been of much help, I would be completely lost in some stuff you have recommended.
What makes all this harder to me is that I live in a semidesertic area hehe bodys of water are at least 1.5 hours from home, so each trip to a lake has to be planned, and it is dissapointing to get there and find something bad that you couldn't detect in the muffs or water barrel, but it is what it is, I enjoy all this process.

I'll let you know what I find in those ports.

Thanks
 
Gone to the lake not leaking in any ports anymore y checked with the starter fluid, I checked idle screw and set it up to 780 - 800 RPM seems to idle good. I checked also timing and seems to be in 28 degrees wot in static there are some scribed lines in the flywheel so it’s aligned the first from
Right to left in a series of 3 scribed lines, according to the manual should be right. In the lake in the motor didn’t developed speed or increase RPMs above 1500 o 2000 at Wot, I checked timing there again and it seems to be between 30 and 32 line, hard to see exactly due to light. I noticed now another part has gave up due life, the idle exhaust boot is completely broke, spilling water all over I just stopped and take the boat to the trailer. Question now is, should that boot cause the motor not to develop speed or increase RPMs? I’m replacing it just want to know if it related, believe the issue could be fuel related but I really don’t know where to start looking anymore any suggestions are welcome.
 
If your running with the cover on and the boot leaking that will kill the motor from running higher RPM's.
Your burning the exhaust thats mostly burned air.
s
 
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