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What protocol for pair of digital 2008 BF 150 hp's

T

twin 150

Contributing Member
I have a pair of BF150's (2008) and want to know what protocol the engine (fuel) data communicates on. I know I don't have N2K, due to age and serial numbers. I want to try and access the data....somehow.
 
Re: What protocol for pair of digital 2008 BF150 's

I thought it was obvious but I guess not. Protocol--communication language.

CanBus
OBD

I want to tap into it. Seems crappy that the only way to get fuel data is a huge 4" - $950 gauge. I don't want to trade in $13,000 motors JUST to get N2K

Since 2006 the "digital" adoption...I want to see my fuel data.

I know Yammie didn't publicize that it was a "sniffable" language BUT IT WAS (before they publicized N2K).
 
Re: What protocol for pair of digital 2008 BF150 's

Not a big "techy" but I do know that the current HDS (Honda Diagnostic System) with the HP Teradyne (Compaq PDA) handheld and PC interface utilizes the OBDII (On Board Diagnostics) serial communications protocol.

I do not believe that the software would be compatible with the CAN bus (controller-area network) as I have not seen any Honda Marine apps using multiplexed or PLC (programmable-logically controlled) devices such as would be the case in automotive applications. There simply isn't a great need or marketability for CAN in the outboard motor world due to virtually no wiring to speak of that would need to be eliminated.

That is not to say though that a NK2 network sniffer could not or would not intercept the signals for processing or analysis. I ain't the guy that could tell you that.
 
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Re: What protocol for pair of digital 2008 BF150 's

Yep - those gauges are expensive and not very readable, and in some areas, not accurate. I have them, but don't like them one bit. One of my main disappointments with my Honda 225 when I bought it in early 2008 was that there was no NMEA 2000 interface, so I researched it to see if there was some way to convert the ECM outputs to the NMEA 2000 protocol. The bottom line is that there is not unless you can break the proprietary code Honda uses. They apparently are NOT using the standard SAE j1939 protocols, but I have not been able to definitively confirm that.

Of course, Honda finally came out with a NMEA 2000 interface in their new 2010 engines, but in my conversations with them, they claim there is no way to retro-fit that to a pre-2010 engine. I question that statement. If you figure out anyway to sniff out those codes and convert them to an NMEA 2000 protocol, I'm sure there would be a lot of folks interested since almost all of the digital GPS chart plotters allow you to display engine performance right on the screen using standard NMEA 2000 protocols.
 
Re: What protocol for pair of digital 2008 BF150 's

I am willing to buy the J1939 converter to see (From Maretron). I just wish I had a better understanding as to what they use for the post 2006 digital gauge data. It's either try the J1939 converter, or attempt to hook up the existing wiring as an N2K bus. Either way, I have to try!

Anyone know what the wiring colors likely mean on the existing dig gauge wires? (pre-N2K of course)
 
Please keep us posted on your progress - several of us are very interested. I'll get out my manual and see if I can figure out the color codes for the various gauges.
 
I grabbed the circuit diagram for the dig gauges. Seems that there are specific wires for specific inputs. (see the are identified as Speedometer)

As you can see. The can/bus thing might not work. I see separate pulse for the motor 1 input.(Green) That bothers me. I would have expected to see the pair black and bl/yellow carry the full data.

What are your thoughts.
 

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Except for the fuel level sender, this just looks like power and ground to the board to me. And, I don't get why the green wire is connected to the Bl/Y wire (power?) going to the tach side. Does you book have any other speedo associated schematics?
 
I went back and studied the full wiring diagrams in the back of the shop manual. I followed leads from sensors to ECU to main power relay to fuel/spark outputs, and to digital gauges. Apparently no single set of wires carries that data, each is individually wired, so that likely takes any direct connect for picking up engine performance data from the digital gauges off the table. It seems that the only way to get continuous performance outputs would be to duplicate what the Honda Diagnostic System does when it is plugged into the 4-prong service connector. I've certainly gone beyond my level of compitence at this point. However, I suspect a competent electronics engineer might be able to reverse engineer the query system and output signals from the service connector, and possibly feed those into an EPROM, and translate them to the NMEA2000 standard.
 
Chawk-

I suspect, as do you, that the diagnostic port may very well be the ticket. Again, the individual wire inputs to the gauges gave it away. I wonder what the odd port is that is left dangling at the rear of one of the dig gauges is for...Might it be a way of seeing the data AFTER the gauge has filtered it out? The manual calls it a "mini din connector". Im thinking the dig gauges act like a service data request and that DIN's output may be similar to a scan tools output...

Of course, therein lies the probable issue. If you don't have the gauge to interpret the inputs to THAT gauge, you may not get the outputted data your looking for.

Thoughts....
 

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Good day. I have a BF225 2007 and have installed a fuel flow meter($125.00) which inputs into my chartplotter. It gives me fuel flow/hr, fuel/nautical mile, fuel used, fuel left, and range. Works great. I have a Northstar plotter, but you canget them for Garmin, and Lowrance chartplotters as well. I am waiting for an answer from our installer regardinng a j1939 to nmea 2000 conversion that he did. If it sheds any light on this issue I will pass it on.
 
Brian - that would be some great information if indeed the output from the fuel flow meter was in J1939 and he converted it to NMEA2000.

TWIN 150 - That mini DIN coming out of the speedometer is VERY interesting. If it is an 8-pin DIN, them that could be a possibility. I'm going down to my boat later today and will take a look. Would need to find a matching DIN and hook it up to an oscilloscope to see waht is being output, if anything. Now, is that small cable coming out of the tachometer gauge another mini DIN, or just a ground wire?
 
My point was. Instead of reinventing the wheel, and possibly wasting money with parts that will only convert J1939 to Nmea 2000 There are other affordable options to get at the very least, fuel info, which was TWIN150's stated desire in the first post.

If you have a chartplotter that will take nmea 2000 you can install an nmea 2000 fuel flow sensor. The northstar plotters, even the cheap ones will take a northstar non-nmea 2000 fuel flow sensor and work great. Another option is a Lowrance LMF200 or LMF400 nmea 2000 multifunction gauge that will take an array of sensors. The LMF200 with the Ep 60 fuel sender unit are very affordable and work well.

I sell and service marine electronics, and we try to find the best, most sensible solutions for our customers to obtain their objective. In my opinion if he wants to get fuel info there are more practical ways of doing it, with results that will work. The conversion process could turn into a full time hobby. I'll shut up now.
 
Brian - I understand, and thanks. My quest is a bit different than the one Twin 150 is going after. I think he is after mainly the fuel data, and your solution is a good one. I already have those damn Honda digital gauges and would like to get rid of them and use all the signal outputs from the ECM to feed directly into an NMEA 2000 network, which I can then display on my chartploters. That would include additional information such as RPM's, alternator output, head temperatures, fuel pressure, and all the other stuff. Essentially, I would like to duplicate most of the realtime info that is output through the Honda Diagnostic System. I know it's there, I just can't figure out how to get it and translate it.
 
Ooh. I thought you guys were still on his problem for the fuel. Good luck. If we run into anything useful I will pass it on.
 
chawk_man said:
Brian - that would be some great information if indeed the output from the fuel flow meter was in J1939 and he converted it to NMEA2000.

TWIN 150 - That mini DIN coming out of the speedometer is VERY interesting. If it is an 8-pin DIN, them that could be a possibility. I'm going down to my boat later today and will take a look. Would need to find a matching DIN and hook it up to an oscilloscope to see waht is being output, if anything. Now, is that small cable coming out of the tachometer gauge another mini DIN, or just a ground wire?
Click to expand...

Nope, that's the vac tube for the speedo.

I think the connector actually matches an old stereo type connector, a Super-VHS. Looks identical.
 
Yep - it's a 4-pin mini DIN. I have no idea what it is for, but will e-mail the Honda folks in Atlanta and ask.

If you are just after the fuel consumption data, I think Brian's solution sounds like the best.

As I stated previously, I would like to get all the real time data coming out of the ECM, and I think intercepting the 4-prong service connector is the key to that. But I have no idea how to get in there without blowing up the ECM.
 
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