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Starter Advice

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HarryCarry

Member
While trying to start my port 454 Crusader it was cranking like normal then click. The starter engages but does not spin. I checked battery connection, ground connection, voltage and all were good. I tapped the starter a bunch of times with a hammer, but still won't spin. I noticed movement from the bendix spring and some smoke coming out of the hole in the bendix case where the spring is after several attempts to start. My next thought is to turn the engine to see if the problem is with the flywheel. What's the best way to do this? Any advice would be much appreciated.
 
Are you sure there is no water leak into any cylinder? The fast test is to remove all the plugs and try cranking again.
 
Dave...if there was water in the cylinders, and I think you are referring to hydro-lock, I don't think he would have been able to crank it like he did prior to the problem...My WAG.......sounds like a bum starter.
 
Boy, I sure hope Jeff and Willow are right! Dave, hydro-lock is a possibility I don't even want to consider just yet! It was cranking fine and as usual, it takes a while to fire, usually 3 tries, after sitting for a week. On the third try is when it died. In the past and on rare occasion, that starter has spun without engaging. It looks like that starter is gonna be a real pain to remove. I won't be able to get to the boat until Sunday, so I want to be prepared in every way to deal with the problem. I think there are 2 5/8 nuts to remove which I can barely feel, let alone see. I see they sell brushes for these starters, so is it worth rebuilding? Are you guys fairly certain it's a bad starter? Would a starter just die without warning? Is there a possibility of a bad flywheel? Sorry for so many questions. I'm probably what-if-ing this to death.

Thanks,
Harry
 
Harry ,

I would not believe you are suddenly faced with a bad flywheel. But I do smell several strange possibilities. Were it a bad flywheel, you would probably have a missing tooth and in the chance the gear gets stopped in this point you would hear the starter whiring but not grabbing. Since my engines are v-drive my "fronts" face to the rear and I have a bit of space to work. To reduce the risk of damage from extreme condensation in the winter haul out, I now remove the plugs and spin the engine from the harmonic balancer with a wrench and then crank with the starter. One year we had a 1/2 cup of water push out of the #1 port cylinder. 4 years before we had hydro-lock and the attempts at cranking, bent pushrods and broke some in pieces. One year we had a drive damper bolt loosen and bind against the bellhousing. It was when the centrifugal force of the engine rotation that allowed the steel fin of the damper to flare out and jam against the bellhouse cover and lock things in place that 4 starters couldn't budge it. Granted none of these are likely your problem so DON'T SPECULATE until you get in there and start tracing the conditions that you have. Another great possibility is a bad wire or battery connection. After all aren'nt all of theses first seasonal startup attempts?
Start with the starter and see how that checks out...good luck....the regular guys here are like a TEAM OF pros. You can't miss.
 
Thanks Knuckle47- I know you're right about speculating. I'm driving myself crazy thinking about all the problems that could be. It's just that I can't get back to the boat until Sunday. I know you and the other guys give great advice! I'm going down there with a new starter {Father's Day present} and a bunch of wrenches on Sunday. It looks to be the original starter from 1973, so it should be fun removing the nuts. I have V-Drives too, but the hatches don't allow much access on the port side. I figure if I can get to the raw water pumps all by feel, then the starter shouldn't be too bad. Anyway, I'll let you guys know how things "turn" out. I really appreciate the advice!!!
 
Harry,

I just changed an EASY motormount today. Shed enough blood to cover 9 months worth of glucose tests. I firmly believe that the designers and engineers who drop this stuff in place, should be made to change parts on a prototype before production. They just might find a better place to put something here and there. My forearms are more than abused tonight.

Also, PB Blaster is your friend (despite that smell) and watch out for shrinkage since the boat is in and out of water. My brother and I have noticed a big difference in the space between the engines over the last several years.

Good luck with your starter, just make sure you have the correct rotation....don't ask :)
 
A socket on the balancer bolt and a breaker bar usually is sufficient to spin the engine over, provided you have enough clearance to access the balancer.

Don't be surprised is you have to remove the "electrical accessory" box to get access to the mounting bolts.

Also, it is common for the studs to come out with the nuts...just put it back in just like it came out.

Also, sounds like its time to take the starter to the local overhaul shop...just make sure they know what "marine" means before you leave it.
 
Jeff-No relation to those Careys. Harrycarry was my CB handle when I drove a long-haul car carrier.

Knuckle47--HaHa...I probably spilled a couple of gallons of blood into the bilge by now. I agree with you about the designers.

I actually like the smell of PB Blaster except in high concentrations like down in the bilge- it gives me a headache, but the stuff is awesome. Shrinkage? I thought it was me getting wider. I have definitely noticed that space getting smaller every year though.

I called the shop to make sure he has the starters in stock and he's got both RH and LH rotation. So I'll bring the old one in to match up.

Mark---I'll see if I can get a breaker bar and socket in there.

Let's hope the studs don't break off! I never should have said that! I'm glad they used studs instead of bolts for the starter. I can't imagine how hard it would be to line up the holes while holding the starter all with one hand.

I might try to rebuild the starter myself with "marine" grade materials and keep it as a spare. I see iBoats sells the parts.

Thank you guys for the help and support!! I really appreciate it!!

Harry
 
Update: Got the starter out, BIG PITA!!! Took it home and bench tested it and it runs fine. So now you can imagine my concerns. Never got a chance to bar the engine over, so we'll see what happens this weekend when I get back to the boat. Is it possible that the starter could run fine on the bench, but not so much as budge under a normal load?

Harry
 
Replaced the starter and she fired right up. Looks like it was the original starter- almost 40 years old. Not a bad run.

Thanks for all the help and advice, guys!!

Harry
 
Thanks for finishing the story - it would be nice if everyone would provide a wrap-up on their solutions after posting the original problems.
 
You're welcome, ejboyd5. I agree with you on the wrap-up because it's frustrating when people leave you hanging. Thanks for the acknowledgement.

Harry
 
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