new poster introduction twin 318 project

[KMD]

I would like to introduce myself, first time poster long time viewer. Please have patience with me I will be posting a ton of posts over the next couple months during my project. I have been working on boats since I was 5 with my dad first handing him tools then as an adult pretty much my whole life. I am not a professional in any means just a guy who loves working on boats and I would have to rate my experience a little above the average DIYer. I just purchased a 1988 28’ Marinette with twin 318’s in it that needs a ton of work. The boat has not been used in a few years one motor full of milky oil, other runs fine (450 hrs on it). I purchased a set of 1973/74 (forgot the exact year) fWC’d LM318 Chryslers from a gentleman who had them professionally rebuilt 10 years ago by a reputable marine engine company that has been in business for years, but he never installed them (boat got vandalized). The previous owner provided me with about 8k dollars in receipts (all new manifolds, engine rebuild receipts, etc…) of what he paid to have all the work done (of course I didn’t pay this since its been a 10 year lapse). They were kept in dry storage, fogging oil put in cylinders, motors hand turned a couple times a year with plugs out, etc….. He basically when the rebuild was done he went to the rebuilder, motors were started tuned, then the rebuilder fogged engines, winterized motors (drained all water from manifolds, antifreeze etc…) and the owner put them in his heated shop.
I have old motors removed from boat. And I am starting to work on getting motors ready for install.

This is what I am doing to the old/new motors I just bought prior to installation:
1. I don’t like his FWC set up. This year motors has dual pocket pumps. He has another impeller pump on each motor, one pump for fresh water side, other pump for raw water side. This year engines did not have an automotive style water pump. I have been told I cant use the dual pocket pump for both fresh and raw water, because its not totally sealed and raw water can bleed through to the fresh water side. I don’t like having 2 impeller pumps, I am going to install an automotive style marine water pumps on the motors, and pull the brackets, single Sherwood impeller pumps, pulley arrangement from the motors I pulled out to put on the motors I will be installing. If I had the room in front of the engine I would install crankshaft pumps. I am just trying to simplify the design.

2. The original motors have original distributers, the motors I pulled out have a couple year old Mallory marine electronic ignition distributers. I am going to switch these out as well.

3. Fuel pumps, the fuel pumps on all 4 motors dont have the drain line from the pump going to the carb so if the diagram ruptures fuel can dump in bildge. I am updating fuel pumps. I am also adding fume detector in bilge as well.

4. Carb update. I have had great success with Edelbrock carbs, I am installing 2 1409’s 600 CFM on angled plates. Original carbs are carter afb’s, carbs on pulled engines are Holleys.

5. Alternators. The alternators on the original boat were replaced with NON marine ones so they are going by by. The ones on the rebuilt motors I bought are old 50 amp prestolites with a separate regulator. I am going to upgrade to at least a 90/100 amp, alts, upgrade orange power wire going to solenoid and change original 50 amp fuse to 90/100 amp fuse.

If anybody sees anything I am not doing right please let me know and give me some suggestions, just trying to make this boat run good and safe.

Look for multiple posts from me trying to get suggestions on different items.
Thanks in advance for any advice
KMD

 

[JJDebeers]

Now is a good time to replace or revitalize the rest of your propulsion system: stuffing box, prop shafts, etc...

If you don't mind, send me some pics of the Carter AFBs, specifically the choke side of the carbs. I run AFBs and I'm always looking for spare replacement parts. If you're not using them maybe we can work something out.

thanks,
JJ

 

[RicardoMarine]

KMD................

This is what I am doing to the old/new motors I just bought prior to installation:
1. I don’t like his FWC set up.
Please define FWC set up for us.

Some people will refer to Lake/River water as "fresh water cooled".
"FWC" (in a misnomer fashion) is also used to describe a Closed Cooling system. There's nothing "fresh" about Ethylene Glycol!
With an actual "closed cooling system", the Chrysler Engine Circulating pumps would be required.

This year motors has dual pocket pumps. He has another impeller pump on each motor, one pump for fresh water side, other pump for raw water side.
In my opinion, this is rather silly today with the different sea water pumps that are available.

This year engines did not have an automotive style water pump.
This would be what's called the "Engine Circulating Pump".

I have been told I cant use the dual pocket pump for both fresh and raw water, because its not totally sealed and raw water can bleed through to the fresh water side.
Correct.
This is why I asked you to describe FWC for us.
I'll assume that by FWC, you mean "Closed Cooling".


I don’t like having 2 impeller pumps, I am going to install an automotive style marine water pumps on the motors, and pull the brackets, single Sherwood impeller pumps, pulley arrangement from the motors I pulled out to put on the motors I will be installing. If I had the room in front of the engine I would install crankshaft pumps. I am just trying to simplify the design.

I fully agree........ I'd loose the dual pocket pumps and the additional pulley system, and install Johnson F6B-9 crankshaft pumps along with installing the Chrysler style Engine Circulating pumps.
This requires some changes to the plumbing, but will be well worth the efforts, IMO.

NOTE: if this is actually a Closed Cooling System, you do not need the more expensive Marine Circ Pump...... the auto version will work just fine.
They won't even know that they're in a Marine application, unless you tell them!


2. The original motors have original distributers, the motors I pulled out have a couple year old Mallory marine electronic ignition distributers. I am going to switch these out as well.
Chrysler was big on VR triggering technology.
If these are VR, I'd sure stay with them, if the shaft bushings and the curves are still good.

3. Fuel pumps, the fuel pumps on all 4 motors dont have the drain line from the pump going to the carb so if the diagram ruptures fuel can dump in bildge. I am updating fuel pumps. I am also adding fume detector in bilge as well.
Good call.
Remeber that if you go with electric fuel pumps, you must have the low oil pressure switches that disrupt power to the pumps in the absense of oil pressure.
This is a USCG regulation.

4. Carb update. I have had great success with Edelbrock carbs, I am installing 2 1409’s 600 CFM on angled plates. Original carbs are carter afb’s, carbs on pulled engines are Holleys.
Personally, my preference would be the Holleys.
BTW, 600 CFM is more than adequate for our lower RPM engines.

5. Alternators. The alternators on the original boat were replaced with NON marine ones so they are going by by. The ones on the rebuilt motors I bought are old 50 amp prestolites with a separate regulator. I am going to upgrade to at least a 90/100 amp, alts,
Alternator charge rates are gravely misunderstood.
Most lower budget high amp alternators cut back on the charge rate rather quickly.
IOW, we only THINK that we're going to get 100 amps from them for any length of time.

Unless you go with a high end Balmar (example only) you're spending money needlessly, IMO.

If you want both alternators to assist in House Bank charging, BlueSea offers an excellent ACR unit that joins both.
This is different than the old school "Isolator" technology.

upgrade orange power wire going to solenoid and change original 50 amp fuse to 90/100 amp fuse.
This is wise if you do go with high output alternators.
Just make sure that you're not confusing the breaker for Hull Harness power, with the charging circuit breaker.
You'll want to keep the Hull Harness circuit protection as it was.

Side note.....
Some of the older boats were equipped with helm Ammeters.
Ammeters require the charge circuit to go forward and back again.
These exceptionally long charge circuits won't easily handle excessive charge rates.
I'd not load these circuits with more Amps than what the circuits were originally rated for.

Perhaps consider changing to Volt Meters, and then circumvent the charge leads that originally went forward and back again.
Or leave them in, and use them (along with a new Negative circuit) for accessory items.

We don't actually need Amp Meters today anyway.

Sounds like you're in for a good sized project.
Have fun.

.

 

[KMD]

JJdebers, I will let you know about the AFB's what I am done everything still witing on new equipment.

Ricardo, Thanks for the comments. I will try to answer your questions here, and have also have a few more based on your answers. .

The motors are FULL FWC, it has heat exchanger with antifreeze running through motor, fresh side of HX, and manifolds. The oil cooler and risers are RWC. I live in middle chesapeake bay md (solomons island), are water is brackish(not as salty as ocean).

From what I can tell the modification I need to do to add the engine circulating pump is pull the timing chain cover off my old 1988 motor and put it on this 1973 motor that I am installing along with a new water pump. The 1973 timming chain cover has a hole in the middle (I was told this was for a mechanical tach. If I don’t put the new one on I could fill the oil side of the motor full of antifreeze.

Your mention on adding a crankshaft impeller pump. I love crankshaft pumps, my last John Deer marine diesel I had one and my current shamrock inboard has one, its one less belt to worry about. The only issue is these motors are in a Marinette. I don’t have 3” of clearance between the front of the motor and the bulkhead, no room for these pumps. I am going to use the sherwoods that are on the old engines (1988 chrysler 318’s). Plus as much as I want it don’t right I am cheap to a point and the sherwoods look to be in good shape.

Your answer on the automotive pumps verses marine pumps. I agree with you on the LH motor, but my starboard motor is RH rotation. I was always told that marine pumps are bi-directional flow, verses automotive pumps only flow one direction, don’t think it will work on RH motor.

Distributers: I am ignorant on VR triggering technology, I just know they are 30 plus years old with points/condenser and the mallorys on the 1988’s that I just pulled out look to be less then 5 years old and they are electronic. Just figured to save money I would use them. I will look into this.

No electric fuel pumps sticking with mechanical.

I understand about the alternators not putting out nearly what they should and I have been curious what peoples thoughts are on the elcheapo made in chine ones you see on ebay for $100. I just will not put the automotive ones from the motors I pulled out on and the original ones are 30+ years old so I really should do something. I figured the original 50 amps ones are probably giving me 25 amps if I am lucky. I figure the new 100 amps one I will be lucky to get 50 amps (at least it should be more then I had).
I understand the breaker. I have 2 breakers on my motor a 50 amp that runs from + side of alternator to the soleniod (this is the one I will upgrade to match new alt). The other breaker (25 amp) runs from the field terminal on the alt, down to the volt meter, then in series it goes to the ignition switch then in series again it goes to the boat circuit breaker main panel as the main breaker. This is all per boat original wiring drawings.

I don’t have a helm ammeter. Just a volt meter.

Thanks again for taking the time to look over my proposed changes I really appreciate it. I am far from perfect and I like to get as many opinions as possible to ensure I am doing it right.