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Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows these!

James Kay

Member
Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows these!

170/3.7l Hope for help from someone that really knows these old girls and has rebuilt over many years! Bertram 25 with twin 3.7l Mercruisers understand the limits of these engines and how some do not like them but also that those who have worked with them claim they are farily robust and great HP when looked after - Have researched a bit on these engines and know the common faults of magneto, coolant leak on shaft and coolant leak on header tank back to piston but need to find out what that terrible rattle/knock noise is once warmed up and RPM over 2000 and wont rev over 3000rpm. The other motor goes fine and revs to 4000rpm and possibly beyond.

1. Oil - changed, seems okay, not milky but maybe not normal black a little grey maybe. Oil pressure - does fluctuate but seems okay when at revs, similar to other motor and never on red line but gets close when at idle.

2. Fuel - fresh and tried 91 to 98 with no noticeable change, also tried additive but not Seafoam

3. Timing - set at 4 before TDC and seems to advance to approx 32 at rev.

4. Carby - has a kit put through it and seems to spray ok.

5. Charging - this is coming in high at revs about 16 volts but not sure if an issue as the other motor not effected, maybe it is an issue?

6. Gimbal bearing - have checked and seems okay and no change to noise with hard turn to port or starboard

7. Rockers - replaced one hydraulic lifter, maybe there are others failed would that cause the rattle/knock?

8. Push rods - have not checked all for correct gap, maybe they are a little tight and no gap?

9. Exhaust - refurbed and cleaned including drive, flappers new.

10. Bottom end - could be the issue but no noise when at low revs so could it be the bottom end bearings?

11. Carbon build up - think this motor was sitting for a long time and prior to that only used at low revs, a couple of valves where stuck a little open prior to getting going, freed up over a few weeks with lube and tapping. Would Carbon build up make this noise?

12. Points/Distributor - have set points gap, not used a dwell meter and distributor looks okay but would these components being worn cause this noise?

13. Compression - all within 10% of around 130psi.

Really not sure if we need to lift motor, strip and rebuild the bottom end or could it simply be a valve stuck, faulty lifter, push rod and a simple fix?

Appreciate any feedback that may help get to the issue.

Not sure this link will work https://photos.app.goo.gl/HCcJZjQCXV31STPt7
 
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Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

That sounds to me like rod bearing. Could also be something hitting the pan or valve cover? Can't really pinpoint the noise just from viddy
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Agreed that kind of noise does sound expensive $$$$$------More than a lifter just ticking .
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Does sound like a rod but could aslo be a loose rocker arm. Start by removing the valve cover and inspect everyhing
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Nice rig. Sounds deeper to me....gonna have to remove and rebuild. But as doc says...start simple, check rocker operation first. If you remove plug wire one by one.....you can isolate the effected rod/piston.....maybe do this first....save removing valve cover. When no spark is applied to effected cylinder, you will see a change in the noise, my friend.
 
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Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Thanks to http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/member.php?47533-racerone, http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/member.php?5530-Bt-Doctur, http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/member.php?73318-timguy.

After reading your posts I have been unconscious for the last few hours but now revived with an ounce or two from Uncle Jack.

Understand and appreciate your views which although no real surprise I was just hoping that it maybe not the bottom end - I will try to take on pulling plugs, then checking the rockers etc first.

We have just had the motors out doing the transom and replacing the mount so while pulling the motor is okay the thought brings tears to my glass eye...

The weird thing to me is this old girl purred like a kitten for a few hours running on test, then went fine for the first run, two, three for a few hours on the water and then this noise.

Point 14: Since making the noise we notice there has been, at times, on start up for the first couple of rotations a 'knock', just a second or two then once started it goes away while at idle. Does not always make this knock noise but wondering if related and could be to do with the issue until the oil starts to get around?

This is the other vid which you can hear the sound of the engine appears fine while not up on revs then the knock comes back in https://photos.app.goo.gl/k1wezsZJYfaT1D2D9

Really appreciate any further ideas!
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

I think you now know what you'll be doing on the weekends in January. Is this a boat that you have owned for a long time or is it one that you're new to or considering buying? How long did it take for this issue to develop? Minutes? Instantly?
Recommend that you don't run it until sorting this out. Yes, those 3.7 are horrid things. 1/2 of a big block.
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Thanks - just trying to help out a couple of guys, it is a boat that they purchased 6 months back that the seller said it was apparently 'going well but haven't run it for a while'; meanwhile it needed new drives, one motor seized (now replaced and running well), transom replacement, new mount, lot of fibreglass, new fuel tank as had used ethanol, fuel lines etc etc.

As for the noise - it ran well on test for some hours, then on the water without noise but after going for an hour around 2000rpm, went up to approx 3000rpm to max 4000rpm for a run say 10 minutes then it started the knock, slowed down and it quietened down. Took it out again and basically was the same - started okay then got noisy after 30 minutes or so. Each time it goes through the same motions.

If it is a rod/piston then would it not make a noise all the time?
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

..."If it is a rod/piston then would it not make a noise all the time?"

Not necessarily. The sound gets louder when the rod and piston hits their natural frequency.

I agree that's it's most likely a rod knock.

Jeff
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Right..... if it's a spun bearing the halves will sometime locate themselves in a position where it won't knock but eventually they will rotate again and you will hear the knock.
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Thanks Jeff - this is sounding really sad...appreciate your help and help of all and please think of me over the next few weeks cover in oil and grease helping the crew rather than out n about.

A few comments said to try the top end but others said to not run it so not really sure now - only have a basic understanding of mechanical.

Albeit, if that's what it is then we better organise pulling it out of the water and lifting the motor.

Seeing as it seems it will be a major repair, does anyone have ideas where the best place to get parts for these motors would be - good price and availability?
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Thanks Tim - interesting. Any idea what may have suddenly caused this given the details at the start of this thread?

Just want to ensure we don't do one motor then have problems with the other!
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Perhaps there was an antifreeze leak into the oil.-----Not good for bearings.
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Agreed, Racer....I think something was mentioned about cloudy oil and a lifter replacement...often signs and results of oil contamination. Happened to me when young....working on a Ford 390. Got antifreeze in the oil when head removal with engine still in the car....working in wintertime in a hospital parking lot.....later a rod bearing went out....but caught it immediately before significant journal damage. Slipped in a new insert after plasti-gauging to confirm proper clearance. That 390 4 barrel, bored and cammed.....ran for years after that.
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Thanks Tim and Racer - this 9 sec vid shows the oil dripping out from distributor when it was not tight (sorted this easily) and you may comment on the colour/consistency

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sYmi9jzFwohT5tvs7

Yes one lifter had not much push on the spring, others maybe no good also.

Appreciate your help.
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

if the oil becomes contaminated with water or coolant and the engine is run in this condition (like you guys did) what will happen is the bearing babbit material will be eaten off in a matter of a few minutes. This destroys the bearing of course. The material flows throughout the entire oil system leaving microscopic flecks of this metal embedded into everything. One good reason for the lifters not being too happy about doing their job.
It would seem that this it the case here. The bottom line is that this particular engine is no good anymore. Confirmation will come from pulling off a bearing cap and having a look. If it looks like copper, that means no babbit is left. The only way to repair this is to rebuild the engine, being sure to hot tank all the internal parts as well as the block, crank and head. It might not need much or any machine work other than a light polish of the journals. New rings and a hone of the bores too. But more likely is the crankshaft will need to be reground, bores taken down .010 or .020 oversize, new cam and a full set of bearings gaskets and seals. New timing set as long as you're in there.
Ballpark for this will be in the 4500 range.

At low rpm, the piston speed is relatively low. The oil viscosity is able to compensate for the large void in the bearing shell. As you increase engine speed this oil wedge gets hammered out of the bearing area and that's why it only makes noise when you spool it up.

A remanufactured 3.7 is about $3500 if you can find any in stock.
 
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Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Thanks o2batsea and appreciate your help and will decide the way to go although I am trying to figure out the reason you say 'if the oil becomes contaminated with water or coolant and the engine is run in this condition (like you guys did)'

Interested to understand if there was coolant in the oil how you could see that, is it the oil colour and if so where the coolant has come from? The coolant tank has not been dropping level so trying to figure this out.

Overall understand this motor is gone and needs major repair.

We do want to make sure we know how/what happened so it does not happen again to the next motor!
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

You might not find the answer since the post mortem requires disassembly and some forensics. I have no idea where you are but if it ever gets cold enough to freeze that's probably what happened.
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Thanks o2batsea and appreciate your help and will decide the way to go although I am trying to figure out the reason you say 'if the oil becomes contaminated with water or coolant and the engine is run in this condition (like you guys did)'

Interested to understand if there was coolant in the oil how you could see that, is it the oil colour and if so where the coolant has come from? The coolant tank has not been dropping level so trying to figure this out.

Overall understand this motor is gone and needs major repair.

We do want to make sure we know how/what happened so it does not happen again to the next motor!
Coolant or water in oil turns it milky , cream colored, and tacky
 
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Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

You said that the oil was changed. What color was it when it came out? Cut open the oil filter and examine what's inside. Do that spark test too. A rod bearing will change its sound....might almost go away. I have a fitting to put in the plug hole...can start engine and direct air noise away. A connecting rod noise then will be very hard to detect w/o compression in effected cylinder. If problem began from contaminated oil.....of course the cause of water/coolant infection must be determined and corrected.
 
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Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

This is why you hire a marine surveyor to assess the state of things before handing over a large wad for an unknown boat. I'm sure the PO is very happy to have this money pit be someone else's problem. Sorry it's being one thing after another with this but old boats are like that.
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

That rattling sounds a lot like the one in this video https://youtu.be/HRyOwnhQwgE

poster claimed head gasket was blown due to overheat and ,raking a small amount of water into combustion chamber. If there’s two things these 3.7 s are known for is overheating and head gaskets. Would think if you had water in a cylinder the combustion chamber and spark plug would devoid of typical carbon build up
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Our OP mentions stuck valves, eh? To me it means rust....moisture. Valves don't normally "stick" with carbon as the cause, right? This machine sat with moisture in it. How it got there? Maybe head gasket? Were both valves stuck in the same cylinder?
 
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Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Our OP mentions stuck valves, eh? To me it means rust....moisture. Valves don't normally "stick" with carbon as the cause, right? This machine sat with moisture in it. How it got there? Maybe head gasket? Were both valves stuck in the same cylinder?
Carbon wouldn’t cause that, if valves were stuck he wouldn’t have compression in that cylinder
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Our OP mentions stuck valves, eh? To me it means rust....moisture. Valves don't normally "stick" with carbon as the cause, right? This machine sat with moisture in it. How it got there? Maybe head gasket? Were both valves stuck in the same cylinder?
Carbon wouldn’t cause that, if valves were stuck he wouldn’t have compression in that cylinder
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

The original post by James (1 : 11), states some valves WERE "stuck".
 
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Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Did you ever find the reason for knock.I have never heard a rod knock go away at idle and would suspect water getting into cylinder. Pulling plugs might tell you alot.If one is cleaner than the rest I would suspect water.Even a loose wrist pin knock is still there at idle.Not saying its impossible but would be a first in my book.
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Thanks stahc454 appreciate your comment and had thought similar on the knock going away at idle but I am certainly not a mechanic, the plugs are all similar, grey a little on the black but it is an old motor. Used a stethoscope and the sound is distinctly noisier at the bottom front end. Anyway we will check it all out soon but for now pulled the motor out and replaced with another one which is hopefully okay!
 
Re: Mercruiser 3.7L - Rattle/Knock over 2000rpm & wont go over 3000rpm - need a guru that knows thes

Carbon wouldn’t cause that, if valves were stuck he wouldn’t have compression in that cylinder

Thanks Dieter and timguy - missed a few comments here. Only the exhaust valves were stuck on cylinder 3 used a bit of diesel/lube over a few weeks and it freed up so started it and it seem to run well.

The compression seemed to be okay from what i see.

The fuel was so thick and smelt like lacquer so we put it in drums as thought it would be better use as a table varnish! Totally flushed out tank and lines, refurb carby and all fresh fuel now.
 
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