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Honda BF75 problem

J

JackB1

Member
I have a 1996 Honda BF75. It has been running great and I use only non ethanol fuel, 10 micron filter. I was heading out today for the last nice day prior to putting away. When at the dock I noticed the fuel ball did not firm up as much as normal but did not think much more about it . Started up and only got 50 yards down the canal when it began running rough then stalled. I got it started again but for only a minute. The fuel bulb would not firm up and my suspicion was a lack of fuel that was causing the problem. Got back to the dock, on the trailer and home. I could use some advice on what to look for. I noticed when squeezing the ball that there was a barely noticeable air type noise on the carb side of the engine but could not pin point the exact location. The bulb just won't harden up as mentioned. I do not think it is the fuel bulb. Would appreciate any thoughts on what to look for.
 
I think the first thing to do is to make SURE it isn't the primer bulb. If you uncouple The supply hose from the motor, try pumping it up disconnected and see if it gets good and firm while dead heading against the check ball. If it doesn't, then it could be the primer bulb or the hose going to the tank sucking air due to a pinhole or a bad connection.

If it does get hard, then you would have to suspect something under the hood. Check all hoses and their connections for leaks, especially at the fuel strainer and, if you don't find any, then you would need to start trying to figure out if you have a carb with a stuck inlet valve or if one of your two fuel pumps has sprung a leak under the valve cover.
 
After sleeping on this overnight I think you may be absolutely right. I have had so many on water issues due to ethanol and one a coil, that I just assumed "here we go again". After this storm passes by I will check the areas you suggest.
 
I am going to replace the fuel line from the end of the water separator to the motor and see if that enables me to pump up the bulb. I disconnected the engine side and still can't pump bulb hard. I also will replace the inline fuel bulb since it is from 1996. Is it worth it paying the extra for a Honda brand bulb?
 
From a quick internet search it appears that one does nut just buy the bulb but a fuel system that includes fuel hose on either end of the bulb and required fittings although I would be cutting the one off at the water separator as it is on with a hose clamp. They are priced around $50 which surprised me. Not cheap compared to a Tempo. I did try a search for Evinrude fuel bulbs but there must be a million choices and I have no idea what to cross reference. Is there really that much difference between the two?
 
Check this link to both assemblies and individual bulbs. If you are reusing your Honda hose, then use the 5/16" size. http://shop.evinrude.com/product/553944/5008605/_/EPA_Primer_Bulb_Assembly_516%22_-_5008605 The fuel line and bulb assemblies are so expensive because they are the current epa compliant material to stand up to the deterioration by the ethenal in the fuel.

Normally this type of hose runs about $4/ft.

The Tempo bulbs may last a year. I can not tell you how many Tempos we replace after the customer just purchased earlier in the year.

You will not go wrong with the Evinrude bulbs.

Now I will get off the soap box.

Mike
 
OK, I have always trusted your opinion so I will get the Evinrude bulb. The fuel lines are from 1996 so I will replace these as well. I have posted a link to the 5/16" bulb and fuel line set. Can I assume that the engine fitting is the same as on my Honda? Also, do I have to be concerned about the fitting on my water separator as to whether to get a 5/16" or 3/8" set? It will be clamped on. Thanks again for your help.
http://shop.evinrude.com/product/55...PA_Compliant_Hose_and_Bulb_Assembly_-_5008599
 
Sorry to butt in but I have tip you might want. If your hose and bulb sit exposed in sunlight for long periods, we all know how ultraviolet light deteriorates and breaks down almost everything in the physical world. I found some time ago that if I want the hydraulic hoses on my tractor to last, I buy these protective "sleeves" to slip over them when I replace them now. I have started giving the same treatment to all my fuel lines and primer bulbs on the boat rental fleets I service. You can buy them very reasonably at any hydraulic hose repair/fabrication shop. They have proven to make my tractor hoses last 3 or 4 times longer than before as they not only prevent UV breakdown but they also drastically reduce chafing and rubbing. The jury is still out on the boat fuel lines but I'm predicting some great savings.
 
That is an excellent idea. I wonder if one could use those flexible plastic electrical cord protectors. They are inexpensive and are split so they roll over the electric cords. I would think they could do the same over the exposed fuel line although the fact that it is a fuel line might mean they would not be "suitable".
I also cut the fitting end off of the motor end of the fuel line today to check the size. It appears that the OD is 3/8" and the ID 3/16". The Evinrude fuel line is 5/16" ID. Is that going to create any problem?
 
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Heck, I think if you wrapped a towel around it that would be better than having it baking in the sun. So, anything that works for you sounds good to me. If you do use split loom though make sure it is secured to the fuel line because it is hard and you don't want any "sawing" action taking place. One other point I'll make before someone else does is that when you cover up that line you won't be able to see any wear or damage if it occurs. But that is a factor I considered and went on with it anyway.

I'm not sure about your sizing issue. I'm not familiar with any of the Evinrude stuff so I'll pass that buck on to Mike.
 
I had a similar issue and it turned out to be a problem with some recently fitted Moeller fuel hose. The hose in question has a plastic liner and it had not been properly bonded to the rest of the hose as it got pushed onto the fittings the liner telescoped inside the hose after several hours of running the telescoped section collapsed and fuel flow went down to a trickle.

Anyone wants to buy some slightly used Moeller fuel hose? Less than 10 hours on it? No?
 
Sorry to be so late jumping back in....had to travel today to pick up a puppy for my wife.

Anyway...when you mentioned the size of the hose....to be sure we are on the same page....we are talking about a 75HP engine...correct? I do not remember the 75 HP fuel line being that small. The 7.5 HP's are about that size, but there were no 7.5 HP's made in 1996.

Your question about the evinrude fittings working on your engine??? They may slip on, but they are not the correct fittings. On the engine end, you probably have two round holes in your fitting. They are no longer made...and aftermarket ones do not work well.

All that being said, there are at least two options.

If you go for the Evinrude fuel hose and bulb assy, you will have to cut off the fittings and put your old Honda fittings. Get the 5/16 size...your old fittings will fit. I use the old fittings all the time on 5/16 when using our shop tank on the older motors.

The other option is to get the Honda hose and new fittings. 04101-ZW9-010 http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/honda/H-04101-ZW9-010.html http://marine.honda.com/outboards/accessories/fuel-system for the BF9.9A - BF130A models. It includes the newer style connector on the engine end of the hose (has a round and a rectangular hole) as well as a new connector to replace the one on your engine. Then you will have all the latest for your motor.

As for protecting the hose from the sun, etc. I typically use split tubing to encase all of the cables and hoses and try to run them all the same route. If I have to run the fuel line separately, I usually encase that in a smaller split tube.

I try to arrange the opening of the tubing on the bottom, so any moisture can easily escape....plus it just looks nicer that way...at least to me. This is what I am talking about. http://www.cabletiesandmore.com/blackloom.php#cable-wraps2 I just googled this and I do not have any experience with this company...but it does look like you can buy it by the foot. We buy it in 50 and 100 ft lengths from a different distributor.

I hope all this does not make it more confusing. After all, it is just a fuel line.

No matter what you do, try to route the hose and bulb, so the arrow on the bulb is either pointing horizontal or even better pointing up (vertical) to allow the check valves to operate properly. You will find that when you are squeezing the fuel bulb and holding it vertical with the arrow pointing up, the fuel will flow much better and it should get hard very quickly.

Mike
 
Yes it is a 75HP. I was unaware of the fitting change. Mine does have 2 round holes. Out of curiosity why was the change made? Is there an advantage to having the new fitting? Change out of the old fitting on the engine, if I get the Honda hose assembly, seems pretty easy as long as I can get the fuel hose off without having to cut it. [does not appear to be a lot of extra hose going from fittting to onboard filter.] I also noticed that I-boats does not carry much in the way of parts for pre 1997 BF75 and BF 90 models only. Are they that unusual?
Good luck with the new puppy. I lost my therapy dog in June and it is not as much fun around without a dog. I will be looking soon.
 
To further complicate matters on what should be an easy buy I listed below an E-Bay seller that is offering 2 styles of the fuel hose assembly both of which would seem to work. Both are toward the bottom of the page and the first looks to have my old engine fitting terminal while the second a little further down is the new style. Is there any reason I should not buy the old style and save changing out the fitting? [for instance if I ever get a portable tank for any reason will it not fit on the old style orthe old one is not suitable for ethanol?]. One thing I would like to retain is the 20" distance from bulb to engine as it makes a neat installation. I really appreciate you hanging in there with this. I guess, looking back, it may have been easier to make the drive to a Honda Dealer but since I got this far I am going to stick it out.
 
The fitting was changed to a round/rectangular one because sometimes customers would mistakingly try to plug them in backwards and it would damage the seal inside the connector. There is no replacement seal like they had on the old Johnson/Evinrude fittings.

As for the ebay items, I did not see a link on your last post.

If they still have a Honda hose that has the old fitting, it must be several years old. The change took place in 2001. So you be the judge as to how old it is.

If you get a portable tank in the future, the tank side fitting will still fit. They have changed it to black plastic.

I will hang in there as long as you want.

Mike
 
Thank you. I placed the order. And the saga ends. :) In all honesty your service to us backyard mechanics is invaluable and adds a sense of confidence when either deciding to do these projects on our own or deciding that it should be a professional tackling the task. It is appreciated by many on the forum I am sure.
 
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