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Honda BF225 Water Leak Crack/Hole

D

dagostino82

Member
Hello,

2003 Honda BF225 with approximately 600-700 hrs. I think.

I noticed water coming from my cowling when I was using the flush port yesterday after a trip. I always flush after trips and almost always use the flush port first and then run the engine with ear muffs. I opened the cowlings and found that the leak was in the middle of the engine behind the VST, so I couldn't see where exactly it was coming from. Tore into the motor and took off the VST. I found a small crack/hole in what I think is the "block". This crack is directly behind the VST. If you can see the picture and tell what this is, am I correct to assume that this motor is done? Probably not worth fixing this on a 14 year old motor right?

Thank you guys!

 
Where the arrow points is actually where the corrosion hole is. The water stream shoots straight up and then just rains back down. All that water on the right is just the water coming back down. I am going to attempt to sand the area down and slap some JB Weld in there and see what happens. I figure it won't hurt to try. Maybe it'll work and I can get some more use out of the motor. The motor runs great otherwise. The other option is to part it out I guess. Maybe there's another option? I haven't called around, but I can only assume replacing the cylinder block would be very expensive.
 
My 06 200 sprang a leak, different location but same water jacket issue. I opted to replace the block myself. The actual block/rotating asssembly factory new was about $2500. The misc parts such as gaskets hoses and belts was another $300 or so. Figure $3000 if you do it yourself. It wasn't a difficult job to swap blocks and could probably be done in a couple weekends if you stay on it. I always figure some guy built it, I can too. It only goes together one way and works.
 
Yes, very expensive - approximately $2200 for the block alone on Boats.net, plus all of the other parts and gaskets you will need. Probably about $5,000 in parts all together. And once you get into it, you never know what else you will find. Labor time will be very high. Then, what will you have? A new block with a lot of old parts.

Personal opinion - If I were in your shoes, I would seriously consider re-powering the boat. You will never be able to trust that engine, especially on a long run. If you carefully part it out and post the parts on eBay you will likely be able to offset the cost to re-power by a substantial amount. To get an idea of what the parts are worth, use Boats.net to get the price of new parts and discount that by 50% or so for the used item. Big dollar items include the cylinder heads, engine cover, the tilt/trim mechanism, alternator, starter, ECU, lower unit, IAB system, VST, fuel pump and a few others I can't think of.

One caution on eBay. There will be a some folks from other countries that will bid on the parts. You need to understand international shipping costs AND RESTRICTIONS. So you may want to be very explicit on where you will ship and where you will not. Use the PayPal payment system exclusively.
 
Do it yourself is the way to go. No more than $3000 in parts and the ultimate education in how your motor goes together. Trust me, I did the math. $15 - 18,000 for a repower or $3000 for a rebuild. Generally, with the low hours most of us have on these motors, the accessory parts are still is perfect order.
 
And just for the record, before I rebuilt my 200, I had worked on exactly zero outboards. In fact, zero Honda motors. The hardest part was getting the gearshift sprokets lined up and working. I had to walk away from that one for a couple hours to reset my brain. The factory service manual shows every step admd tge wiring harness is pretty much foolproof.
 
Pull the VST, there is a water line that goes into the vst to help cool it. It could have come disconnected or deteriorated..I'm betting thats where it's from. If the block is cracked, I would get a block from boats.net and for less than 5K if you do it yourself you will have a reliable oem block, just as good as reliable as a $19K new outboard
 
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All good info guys, thanks.

Skooter, unfortunately it wasn't a line to the VST, definitely a hole at the base of the block from corrosion.

M Smith, you are brave for sure. The only mechanical knowledge I have is what I've attempted to fix on my own vehicles and this motor. I have had this motor torn apart a couple times doing some service bulletins and replacing the internal anodes (those weren't very fun). I feel I can turn a wrench and figure things out mostly, but the problem is that I don't know the names of half the parts I am removing and what in the world their purpose is. Doing the block scares me, maybe because of the amount of money involved if I mess up something.

CHawk, I will say that part of my dilemma here is that I've wanted to redo the boat and repower with a 25" motor. I just haven't been able to do it yet financially. I was hoping within a couple years. There in lies my dilemma with spending so much money on this motor.

Side Note: I must not be seeing the right thing because on Boats.net I see the "short block" has several prices, but the most being $843.06 or just the "cylinder block" being $315.89 for (2003 BF225A3 LA). What am I missing there?

Decisions, decisions. I appreciate all the advice and I will let you know how it turns out.
 
On the boats.net site, whatever parameter they have set for pricing only accomadates three digits plus two past the decimal. There is a 2 in the line above, $2315.89.

The epoxy repair will work. The water jacket outer wall is not subject to the same stress as the cylinder wall, low heat, low pressure. I considered doing the epoxy repair. I also considered sending it to to a machinist to have the block welded. That might necessitate removal of the rotating assembly. In the end, the new motor was not in the cards for me, just too many other projects that need money tossed at them. The epoxy repair was attractive, but I was never completely sold. I had heard of guys running for years like that, others didn't make it past testing out the block. I still have my old block. I may still send it off to be welded.

If you choose to patch with epoxy, research. There is way more out there than JB Weld. Prep is king with that repair.

My concern with patching the block was that if there was one hole, where else is the metal thin and just waiting to leak from?

Honestly, the block swap is easy. Number one, invest in the shop manual. There is one specialty tool to hold the crank and remove the pully, about $30 from amazon. You do need an engine hoist. Beyond that, a 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 metric tool set, some extentions, tourque wrench, pliers and screwdriver is about all you need. If you can pull the exhuast manifolds, the rest is easy. The heads/camshaft are removed in one piece. The short block comes built, just pull the old and set the new one. Gaskets, anti-sieze and time. I only had a few leftover parts when I was done. Cranked up on the first try.
 
I would think you would be getting oil out of that block, not water, unless it in the jacketed area. I'd pull the intakes off it to see the whole block.
 
It makes you want to get the new block's water jackets sonic checked. That really can't be done but it'd make me nervous about having another block with thin water jacket walls.

M Smith,
I plan on doing the same whenever I have to repower. Good on you to grab the bull by the horns.
 
Unless I misread, this is a water jacket leak. I have never heard of a Honda outboard with a split block. Head gaskets leak sure, but not cracked blocks. All rot issues are in the outer water jackets. Ultimately, I think Honda did a poor job designing the flush system. There are areas that just do not flow enough to flush sediment out.

I have seen cracked blocks. Put more than 500 hp on a Ford 302 block. Splits right down the valley. Those leak oil.
 
Nasty Wendy - yeah, sonic testing would be nice. I am sure there is some scan that could be done. Probably need to work at NASA or own a F1 team to use the tech. Funny, I have read that in NASCAR, they epoxy coat the oil passages in the engine for some small efficiency gain. I always wondered why some materials engineer has not developed a material that can be bonded to the aluminum in the water passages to protect them from electrolisis.
 
GREAT discussion, folks. That's what this forum is all about. I'm sure others will appreciate it, as I have.

Dagostino82 - given your circumstances, what can you lose trying the epoxy route? Right now, you have a dead engine and you're not in a position to re-power. So why not go for it? As M Smith said, prep is everything.
 
I too would live to see someone try the epoxy repair. Some tips from my research...
JB Weld...last resort. When I started my search, I found there were several industrial chemical companies that supply repair epoxies to power plants. The cooling systems spring leaks, and apparently repairing cooling lines with epoxy products is routine. In FL, we have numerous power plants that use salt water for cooling. Imagine the rot issues they have.

The biggest issue in my mind is cleaning the existing bad metal out of the block. Since it rots from the inside out, it seemed problematic to get out all of the bad aluminum. Maybe the OPs rot hole is in a more accessable area than mine was. Getting an even later of epoxy without slump was also a concern. I had thought about some sort of thin gauge aluminum backer to help.

Anyway, good luck with whatever route is selected.
 
UPDATE... Well, unfortunately I missed the last half of this discussion. My email settings must not be right to notify me of replies. The corroded hole was in fact in the water jacket. Skooter, it was at the base of the block in your picture, dead center below that lower sensor. I used a Dremel tool and ground out the hole. Hopefully I ground out most of the corrosion. I only accessed this by removing the VST so it was tight and visually tough to see. I then used JB Weld for the repair (Probably should've researched better products). In hind sight, I should've taken off fuel rails and such to access this area better to make sure I made a clean repair, but sometimes I am impatient (I'm still working on this in life). Anyway, I let it cure for over 24 hours and then flushed the motor on the flush port. No leaks!!! With that said, who knows how long it will last since the corrosion was from the inside out. I know full well this could be a very temporary fix and I'll be in the same position in the future. Hopefully by then I will be ready to redo the boat and repower. You guys are top notch and I thank you again for the help.
 
There's not a whole lot of water pressure,with a good prep the repair should hold. If it leaks again, you know where to look!
 
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