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HELP with Espar heaters

Brian silk said:
Hello. It sounds like the flame sensor has gone. It thinks it is hot so it runs in coodown until shut down. It can be tested by jumping the two contacts on the sensor. If the heater turns on in start mode now, slow fan, glow plug, and then fuel pump then that is the problem. This only works with model 25 1640, not 25 1738. The switch is still available, about $70. Off the top of my head.

I'm not sure what you mean by it would not go I to coodown. Would it not shut off at all and you had to pull the fuse?
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Hi Brian,
thank you,new to this.The heater just ran on high and I turned it to off.
Bruce
 
Hello all. I did post my phone # and email here, but try to stay on the forum unless the problem is urgent. That way everyone can read and learn from the posts. If you do email. Or talk to me. Please post here first and then contact me. I will try to post the answers here if I can.
Thanks!
 
Hi Brian,
I just installed a d4 into my boat. When i first started it i measured 120+ celsius on the exhast cover (it has the original marine double walled exhaust line). I don't really like that much heat in my cockpit locker so I decided to insulate the exhaust line. I bought some fiberglass tape rated at 200+ celsius and some 3m scotch brand tape 425 (rated at 150) to cover the fiberglass tape. So now the layers are: internal exhaust line, insulation, original external cover, fiberglass insulation, alu tape. The temperature had dropped, but i noticed that some smoke is coming from between the internal and the original external tubes. Do you think it is something the extra insulation is causing? Or is it just some leftover greese which will stop smoking after a while?
Kind regards
Geza
SV Rotor
Auckland, New Zealand
www.rotorman.hu
 
Good day. The insulation is fine. The tape I have not used for that purpose. New insulation sometimes has some sort of wax on it. The Espar supplied does for sure. When I do a new install I always tell the customer to run it on high for a few hours to cook the coating. It does smell , and does produce some visible smoke. Let it run for a good ten hours and then check it. The more layers, the longer it takes. One layer can take 4-5 hours so you will need more time. I can't say about the tape adhesive though. The smell should not smell like exhaust. If it does then obviously you have a leak. But I would suspect the former. Let me know what the result is after a good run. Stay put of the boat while it is running! Also the more insulation you have the more moisture it will wick from damp air. If the heater is not run for long periods you may find it will steam for quite a while after on the first run after being idle .
 
Thanks Brian,
Thanks for the advice. Today I run the heater for 3 hours on max power. There is almost no smoke by now. It still have a little bit of sweet smell coming from the hot air inlet inside the cabin, hopefully that will go away.
If you don't mind I have another question for you. The heater fan is very loud even when it slows down. It almost sounds like the bearing has worn out. I know that this is hard to measure and depends on the installation etc, but just how loud/silent the heater should be normally? I would have expected an almost silent fan on low setting.
And another question. It seems like the heater puts out a lot of heat even on the lowest setting. It was not particularly cold tonight. I tried using the heater and even though I set it to 24 Celsius and it seemed to be running quite low it just started to make the cabin warmer and warmer and warmer... (up to 27 Celsius, when I switched it off). Originally I was hoping that I will be able to heat only the sleeping cabin on the cold winter nights to preserve fuel but it seems like the unit will be too powerful for that. I was hoping that maybe the unit would cycle on and off by itself but that does not seem to be the case. Any idea?
Thanks again and cheers
Geza
 
I recently bought a sail boat that has an Espar D3L heater, pretty old (10/12 years), works but I don't know what is the right way in which is supposed to run. When I put it on, it starts, runs for a few minutes and stops, produces air at a good temperature. After a few more minutes starts again, and this can go on for ever. The off time is longer than the on time. It was on all of last night, 45º out, the thermostat set at 67º, but it never really raised the inside temperature more then 3/4 degrees.
I want to know if the on and off cycle is the way the Espar works or is it supposed to work like a home heater,(on until it reaches the set temp) or there may be something I'm doing wrong.
I need some advise please
Thanks
Horacio
 
Good. Get a CO detector anyways.Do you have a digitroller? I have found it to be not very good at regulating the temperature. It almost sounds like the heater is using it's internal temp sensor, meaning it take a reading of the intake air to the furnace instead of the temp at the thermostat. Double check the wiring of the thermostat if you had to insert the pins in the plastic plug housing yourself. But I have had the opposite happen. The thermostat is set at 25, but the room temp is 16 and the Espar was still running on low. I use the standard room thermostat with on off switch and temp dial. I usually recommend to use the digitroller as a diagnostic tool. Is the thermostat. Mounted in the salon?

Is the cold air supply to the heater ducted to the cabin or does it just pull from the heater compartment? Some of the fans have a kind of ticking sound that really carries through the intake ducting.. If this is the case you can order 75mm cold air intake muffler. They work fantastic. But bearing sound, grinding or squealing is not normal for a new heater, obviously.
 
good day. What kind of thermostat are you using? Does the control box(ecu) have 20 1607.... On it or 25 1688...? The 20 1607 is on/ off, the 25 1688.. Is multiple speed. You probably have the former. There is an adjustment potentiometer under the cover of the thermostat. I can explain if I know what type you have.. Or you can install a digital battery operated home thermostat. Much more sensitive. Is there a chance that the thermostat is getting warm air directed towards it therefore turning off because it is warm even though the room is not?
 
Hi Brian, thank you for responding.
I will attach a pix of the thermostat, and I must say that the thermostat and the exhaust/ventilation pipe a stern, is all I've seen of the heater. I suspect where the furnace is but I have to dig some more. I'm inclined to think that the cold air supply comes from the same compartment, not from the cabin. The thermostat is located high in the salon and can't get heat from the vent which is low, near the floor on the same side. There are three more vents, at the head, at the V berth and at the enclosed quarter berth, all on the same side of the boat. I will locate the furnace, and find where the intake of cold air is, but I would like to know from you which is the right source of cold air.
Thank you again and have a merry Christmas
HoracioIMG_15671.jpg
 
Horatio. That thermostat you show in the picture is a digitroler. If you have a D3L it would not work. You must have a D3LC or LC Compact. See if you can find the silver sticker on the heater look for the model always starts with Dr.
The cold air canned taken from the heater area or the inside of the boat. From the heater compartment it would bring in fresher dryer air, but colder. It can effect the template of the delivered air by quite a few degrees. If pulled from inside the cabin then it is more efficient pulling in warmer air from that cabin and creating a good surrender flow of it movement, but is recycling moist air from inside the boat. In sailboats we mostly pull air from the heater compartment,usually a cockpit locker. The exhaust fittings must be well done so any exhaust leaks are not ducked in and delivered to the cabin. What kind and size of boat is it, and what is the duct diameter from the heater to the main salon wide open outlet. 75mm, 90mm, or 100 mm? If you have a D3LC. Or d3lc compact then it should run on multiple speeds, same if you have D4 Airtronic, 3 speeds,it does not shut down often but stays running up and down between. Speeds, D3LC. And compact the same.
 
[FONT=&quot]Good morning Brian. In all the paperwork that I got with the purchase of this boat, I found a "WARRANTY REGISTRATION COUPON" that states:
Heater Model # 25 1738 05 D3L; Heater Serial # 5734. The boat is a Mariner 38 sailboat.
I'm not going to be able to confirm this info for the next couple of weeks, but I want to get a thermostat ready to change. Would a regular one from Home Depot work? (the kind with a graduated wheel and on/off switch).
I didn't take measures, but the accordion part of the duct looks like 75 to 90 mm in diameter, however the ends of it, the part that fits in the vent, is smaller than that.
Next time at the boat I will confirm all this info.
Thanks for your help
Regards
Horacio[/FONT]
 
Brian silk said:
Good. Get a CO detector anyways.Do you have a digitroller?
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I have the digitroller, the wiring came out of the box ready made, i only had to connetc it to the heater
Brian silk said:
Is the thermostat. Mounted in the salon?
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it is the salon. I think the unti does use the thermostat. It goes full power until it reaches the set temp, then slows down. But still quite some heat comes.

Brian silk said:
Is the cold air supply to the heater ducted to the cabin or does it just pull from the heater compartment? Some of the fans have a kind of ticking sound that really carries through the intake ducting.. If this is the case you can order 75mm cold air intake muffler. They work fantastic. But bearing sound, grinding or squealing is not normal for a new heater, obviously.
Click to expand...
the cold air comes from the cockip locker where i installed the unit. I can also use a 2 feet ducting and suck in fresh air. Noise is worse with the ducting but its there without ducting, too. I will try to find someone with a same unit and compera the sound.

Thanks
Geza
 
Hello Brian
I have a D5L heater Purchased from Roton in 1991. you have serviced the unit at Roton within the last 5 years. I ran out of diesel. after filling the tank I tried starting it but nothing came on. probably there is something to reset but I cannot find it on the form, Seems to be a lack of discussion about the D5L. I live on my boat so tonight I sit huddled around a ceramic heater. How do I get the pump to prime as the line is empty? I will gladly pay you for a warm Christmas
Thanks Denis
 
Horatio, let me check with Espar next week and see if it will. There maybe something I don't. Know, but that thermostat. Was made for the newer heaters. I will get back on Thurs.
 
Sorry. For he delay.. Turn the thermostat off and remove the left hand side cover. Slot on the bottom..put a key in it and twist, it will pop off. Put a jumper between term. 4 and 6 and turn on the thermostat. This will unlock the heater if you tried 5 times to start it. It locks up. From that.
 
Brian silk said:
Sorry. For he delay.. Turn the thermostat off and remove the left hand side cover. Slot on the bottom..put a key in it and twist, it will pop off. Put a jumper between term. 4 and 6 and turn on the thermostat. This will unlock the heater if you tried 5 times to start it. It locks up. From that.
Click to expand...

Thank you Thank you Yes I have heat !!!! Send me an invoice [email protected] I will probably need to bring the boat to Vancouver or pull out the unit in the spring and send it over to you as it smokes more than it use to. But over all it has worked really well during the 8 years I have lived on my boat. Thanks have a very Merry Christmas
 
Hello Brian I am still having problems, well I did now I don't but I may again. The heater would not fire up on Boxing day after running smoothly all night Christmas. It would come on with two clicks like the fuel pump sound then nothing I tried the jumper checked wires measured voltage fuel in the line no bubbles no luck went to bed. Same yesterday no luck would not fire up. I started to plan a trip to Vancouver to have you look at it. Last thing before bed turn it on WOW it starts. enjoy the heat shut it down go to bed. This morning turn it on bonus it is still working!!!!! I will see what happens to night when i get back to the boat, confidence is high. Have a great holiday Denis
 
Denis. Sorry I missed the notification on this last post. When it fails to start and just gives the clicks, turn it off and do the jumper thing. It should bring up a flash code that can be looked up in the troubleshooting manual. Go to www.espar.com. And hit the downloads tab and then all other manuals, then archive heaters, then air heaters, then click onthe D5LC "ts" PDF. It will have a list of flash codes. Also check all the connections in the power harness. A loose or corroded connection may give it an intermittent low voltage scenario. There is a chance that the pc board in the top of the heater has broken solder on the board. It can give an intermittent flame sensor or overheat open circuit. Also check all the wiring connections at the heater for corrosion, also at the fuel pump itself. If it is the pc board, then moving the harness where it goes onto the pc board in the heater may move the pins in the board. If it will not do anything, move the harness and if it will now start, it is probably the board solder. If you need to call me my number is back a few posts.
 
I checked with Espar and they confirmed. The digitroler will not work withheld d3l 25 1738. You need the 567 00 97 thermostat 12v. You will have to look at the wiring schematic and match the colour of the wires on the heater side of the thermostat plug with the terminals on the thermostat. Send me an email and I can scan simple schematic and send it to you. [email protected]. Again, to others,all other questions please post on the forum, I don't want my email replacing the forum.
 
Brian silk said:
I checked with Espar and they confirmed. The digitroler will not work withheld d3l 25 1738. You need the 567 00 97 thermostat 12v. You will have to look at the wiring schematic and match the colour of the wires on the heater side of the thermostat plug with the terminals on the thermostat. Send me an email and I can scan simple schematic and send it to you. [email protected]. Again, to others,all other questions please post on the forum, I don't want my email replacing the forum.
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Thank you Brian, my e-mail: [email protected]
We can handle schematics, and I would love to have it. I will start searching for the thermostat that you recommend
Horacio
 
Hello Brian Frustration, The heater is working randomly. Yesterday it worked but did not reach the temperature where it went in to a cycling mode. I turned it off went to bed. Today I turned it on heated to about 22c then I turned down the dial it shut down would not fire up on it's own. It has done this in the past so I would just turn up the dial a bit and on it goes. Not this time. It will not start, I tried the jumper no go. There is also no flashing code, I have the manual with those codes in it but no change in the lights. When turning it on it clicks twice then just smiles nothing. But maybe tomorrow it will work !! Hope so it's a little cool these days!!! I checked my batterys they are all up to full voltage. Tomorrow after work I will check the wires at the heater.
 
Cheechako said:
I tested my D7L as you [Brian] have suggested and the findings are very interesting... the fuel pump does not make a clicking noise at any time after the blower starts up. So, I pulled the control wires off the fuel pump, and tried to test to see if there was any input voltage by connecting them to a volt meter (see quicktime movie 1). There was *no* voltage measured in the fuel pump wires. I also put a magnet over the impulse generator, but this still did not generate a voltage to the fuel pump, or cause the pump to make a clicking noise.

Response from Brian Silk:

Did you tap the motor shafts while the heater is in start cycle like I mentioned? You could also open the large control box and see if all three relays are closed. If the third one is not, press the end of it to close it and see if the pulse starts.
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Brian and Forum members:

Here are the latest test results on my D7 heater. Please refer to the prior postings. In summary, the unit powers up, the glow plug works properly and the fan blows but only produces cold air. The fuel pump did not produce the characteristic clicking noise and there was no voltage measured in the wires connecting the control box to the fuel pump.

As Brian recommended (above), I tapped the shaft of the fan motor after the 30 second startup interval. No luck. This did not activate the fuel pump.

Next, I pulled the 2 control boxes and opened their cans. The components visually appeared perfect, brand new. There was no sign of corrosion, capacitor leak, burned components, etc. Then, I re-connected the controllers (without their cases). The fan motor and glow plug started up (just as before). When holding the controller circuit board so that the relays appeared upwards and on-top, I could see that the middle relay of the D7 controller was *not* closed. The other two relays *were* closed.

I used a toothpick to manually close the *middle* relay and immediately the fuel pump began rhythmically clicking. Within 30 seconds, the burner fired up and heat was produced from the vents !! When I released manual pressure, the relay opened up, the fuel pump stopped clicking, and soon the fan motor was blowing cold air again. (FYI, the outer relay controlled current to the glow plug and while the inner relay controlled current to the fan motor).

The results of these tests indicated to me that the timing current (which is derived from a back current produced from the fan motor brushes) was intact and correct. This also means that the fan motor will not need to be re-built or re-brushed. I think the tests also confirmed that the smaller control box (aka Impulse Generator) is also working correctly as it produced rhythmically timed pulsing of the fuel pump.

This leads me to the conclusion that the principle problem with my D7 is a malfunctioning control box (part number 25.1549.52.00.00). I am now looking for a replacement for this unit and will update the readers with the results.

Comments welcome and Thanks to all...
 
Denis frustrating indeed. You are putting the jumper in place and then turning the thermostat on? It should bring up a code if there is a bad component, if it is a problem with the thermostat, or the control box, it most likely will not generate a code. If it was the flame sensor or pc board connection, it should bring up a flame sensor flash code. You could send it over to me instead of sailing over. It would only be over here for 3-4 days even if I had to order parts from Toronto. Let me know in advance. Bear in mind that I will be at the boat show in Van. In Feb, and will be unavailable for that time.
 
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Hello Brian. Yes I turn off the heater then turn on with the jumper in place. The green light faulters a bit vs the red light turning the switch on. If that can be taken as a code then when compared to the manual codes it would be check controller,charge battery. Do these codes repeat as in go through a cycle of short and long flashes? I am at a slow time for my work so It is possible for me to go to Vancouver for a few days, I would like to have the heater system checked over in the boat rather than pulling it out to ship it. I did ship it once before so it is not a problem for me to take apart and replace, what do you think. Tonight when I came home I set the thermostat to a lower heat. then turned it on, much to my delight it started ran up to temperature then went through the normal shut down but would not come back on as normal. I turned it off for a couple of hours then tried to turn it on but it just clicks a couple times then nothing. Jumpers do nothing.
 
I am getting busy, but I can easily fit you in. Just name a day and I will let you know. I am away at Gambier Island all weekends, so money. To Friday is best. Let me know, it may be best with the boat here rather than just the heater. The small flash is probably not a code as it would repeat. Email me as far as the scheduling goes.
 
Thank you Brian for the schematics; in a week to ten days I'll be going to work on the boat and I will repost to update you on the progress
Horacio
 
Hi there. This is probably a question for Brian. I have an Eberspacher D8LC air heater with a dodgy blower motor. The cost of a replacement blower seems excessive so I thought I would investigate the repair of the existing motor, assuming it to probably be brushes or windings. Removing it was easy but I can't work out how the fan assembly (the one next to the combustion chamber) comes off the motor shaft. Surely it can't just be an interference fit? Thanks in advance for your help.
 
Unfortunately. It is pressed on and glued at the factory. There is no way to get the plastic impeller off without breaking it, and even if you could, you could not get it backing straight and the.011 clearance between the impeller and the aluminum body is Very important as it affects how much air is delivered. Sorry for the bad news. I know ow it is ungodly expensive.
 
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