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Brp 115 running problem

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willcook

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"Hi, can anyone help - please!

"Hi, can anyone help - please! I am working in Liberia (west Africa) and last year bought a BRP 115 model PLSDA which I believe is a 2006. It was working fine and now it has developed a problem. Occasionally the oil warning light comes on but I believe it is consuming oil as the level is dropping. It is running fine in a drum off the water and in the first 5-10 minutes in the water and then suddenly it starts to shake and it will not go above 2000 revs or so and has to be nursed back to the jetty. Is this the S.L.O.W mode kicking in? How can I tell whether it is this S.L.O.W mode? If it is, how do I proceed from here? What simple checks can I do? We have already cleaned the carbs, changed plugs and initially it works fine and as I said, then suddenly it vibrates and slows to max a few knots at a few thousand revs. Can anyone help???!! Unfortunately here in Liberia there are no good outboard mechanics! Thanks"
 
"According to Your description

"According to Your description, it is the SLOW kicking in.
To get out of it again, engine has to be restarted.
Have You tried to pump the oil hose bulb when light goes on to see if light disappears?
Double check all lines for leaks (air in) and do not forget the filter at the bottom of the oil tank.If possible put a clear plastic hose, coil it in a loop, closest to the VRO and check if an air-bubble appears on top of the loop. Until You are sure the oil-system works, add some oil in Your fuel tank!"
 
"Thanks Morten for getting bac

"Thanks Morten for getting back to me - especially on a sunday! Can you explain a few things please: 1. for what reasons does the SLOW normally activate? 2. please describe the process of using the clear tube to the VRO etc to see whether any air is inside (sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean). 3. how else can I check if oil is actually entering the engine? 4. Normally the oil bulb feels very tight, all the time; would this indicate that it is consuming oil? 5. The fuel bulb often feels soft when running; could this mean that the fuel line has a problem instead? I'd be very grateful for any further advice. ps I have just ordered the workshop manual which may be of use also. Cheers"
 
"Sundays is in fact 'workd

"Sundays is in fact 'workdays' where I live, Friday and Saturday is 'week-ends'.
SLOW on Your engine gets activated by 'No-Oil' and 'Overheat'. The 'Low-oil' should only set off the alarm, but not initiate the SLOW. There is a blocking diode in the harness to block signal to the Power-pack.
The oil-bulb is by itself harder than the fuel-bulb, and will not go limp as normally the fuel-bulb does when running. There is no 'free' volume to fill up, and flow/consumption is only 2% of the fuel.
If You replace the rubber hose (oil) closest to the fuel-pump with a clear plastic hose and make a loop, an air-bubble will appear on top of the loop. To check oil-consumption on the engine, just make a mark at the oil-tan(marker-pen or tape), for every 50 liters of fuel You consume, You should need to add 1 Liter of oil to get back to the mark.
However which light goes on when the engine activates SLOW? Is it the High Temp or No-Oil?"
 
"Hi, thanks for the info. Norm

"Hi, thanks for the info. Normally the oil alarm activates but initialy when this happened there was no SLOW activation and it was ony when we were going at very slow speed (trolling when fishing) so I simply increased speed for a bit which seemed to help as I presumed it sucked in extra oil. However, since the (presumed) SLOW activation I have not definitely associated the SLOW with either the oil or temp as yet.

I am sure it is not overheating; plenty of water is always being ejected out of the engine. However, one of the temperature anodes (that screw into the engine) wasn't working so we found another. But maybe this is faulty and something is telling the engine that it is too hot - what do you think?

Regarding the oil, if I add oil directly into the engine will the sensor feel the increase in oil and therefore will the alarm perhaps not go off? Or is the oil level sensor only through the direct oil injection system? How does it sense the oil in the engine?
Cheers"
 
"Be sure that the cylinder ban

"Be sure that the cylinder banks have even temp, and enough cooling water pressure! A good rule of thumb is to change the impeller and vernatherms (thermostats) every 3-5 years. Always change vernatherms as 'kits' -change both!
The 'no-oil' sensor is in the electronic part of the VRO. A micro switch feels the oil-pressure. If no oil-pressure into the fuel-chamber of the pump, the alarm goes off. Oil is not injected into the engine , but mixed with fuel in the fuel-pump section of the pump before the fuel enters the carbs. You may disconnect the oil from the fuel-pump, block the oil-inlet(to avoid air into the system) and mix 2% straight into the fuel-tank. Just remember to pull apart the electrical contact going to the VRO or You will get a 'no-oil' alarm and SLOW."
 
"Thanks Morten, that all makes

"Thanks Morten, that all makes sense. I am going to go the boat on wednesday and try out some of your suggestions. I'll get back to you after that with any further questions / comments if I may please. Cheers"
 
"Hi Morten. I went out in the

"Hi Morten. I went out in the boat last week and not had a chance to post the report until now. However, having found someone had tried to steal all the petrol out of the tank by disconnecting the lines and syphoning it out, we decided to pre-mix the oil and petrol in a 6 gallon container and run that direct into the engine. We used the recommended ratio. The results were:

1. It ran very well initially and then the No Oil light and warning came on and SLOW was definitely activated (vibrating and revs limited).

2. I then tried checking whether the oil line (which was still connected seperately from the pre-mixed petrol/oil) was functioning. We disconnected it at one of the connecting points as the engine was running and found that even though the engine should have been sucking it / pumpng it through, nothing was coming through the line. (Can you explain whether the oil is pumped from the oil supply container or sucked from the engine?)

3. We then tried disconnecting the oil line switch to see whether this had any effect but it didn't seem to as SLOW was reacativated again. Each time this seemed to be at higher speeds.

4. I checked the thermostats but we think they're working. We checked with a voltmeter and they're 5.5V approx each. Is this about right?

5. We continued to run and it seemed to improve again later but I believe that the oil supply system is either faulty, or more likely the oil supply micro-sensor faulty meaning that it is not managing to sense whether there is enough oil coming into the fuel / oil mix. Obviously I know that there should have been as I pre-mixed it (as well as initially having the oil line ALSO attached into the engine). Therefore there should have been no reason for a NO Oil.

Based on these symptoms what do you recommend? How can I check the micro-sensor and do you think that the oil supply system is also not working?

I would be very interested and grateful to hear you thoughts.

Many thanks indeed for your help,

Will"
 
"2. I then tried checking whet

"2. I then tried checking whether the oil line (which was still connected seperately from the pre-mixed petrol/oil) was functioning. We disconnected it at one of the connecting points as the engine was running and found that even though the engine should have been sucking it / pumpng it through, nothing was coming through the line. (Can you explain whether the oil is pumped from the oil supply container or sucked from the engine?)
Oil is 'sucked' from the pump.
3. We then tried disconnecting the oil line switch to see whether this had any effect but it didn't seem to as SLOW was reacativated again. Each time this seemed to be at higher speeds.
Which 'oil line switch'. The only way is to pull the multi contact in the harness from the VRO. (3/4 cable plug). If that is pulled apart and You still get slow, it is NOT the VRO sending the signal. If You disconnected the brown from oil-tank, that one does not activate slow.
4. I checked the thermostats but we think they're working. We checked with a voltmeter and they're 5.5V approx each. Is this about right?

You can not check thermostats with a volt meter, and the thermostats are only active at lower rpm's. At higher rpm's the pressure valve system takes over, providing Your water pump and impeller gives enough pressure. If sure engine does not run hot, disconnect the brown leads from head to power-pack -but do not melt the engine!!!!!!!
5. We continued to run and it seemed to improve again later but I believe that the oil supply system is either faulty, or more likely the oil supply micro-sensor faulty meaning that it is not managing to sense whether there is enough oil coming into the fuel / oil mix. Obviously I know that there should have been as I pre-mixed it (as well as initially having the oil line ALSO attached into the engine). Therefore there should have been no reason for a NO Oil.

The sensor reacts on oil-pressure in the VRO oil system, but it even need the engine running and rpm input (gray cable) to work. Did You try to press the oil-line bulb when the alarm went off? That should turn off the light if VRO is not pumping oil. To get out of SLOW, engine must be re-started."
 
"Hi, thanks for the comments a

"Hi, thanks for the comments and advice.
1. If oil is being sucked from the oil container by the engine what is the best way to check that it is working? Using the clear hose method?, or is there an easier way?

2. The switch we disconnected was the electric cable that directly connects the engine to the oil supply container. I presume this is the wrong cable to disconnect. How do I identify the correct cable? (I don't quite understand the 3/4 cable description).

4. I think the cooling system is working. The water ejected is strong and the temperature if you put your hand in it is not very hot.

5. If the sensor also needs the rpm input, does this mean that if the rpm cable / meter is not functioning then the sensor will also not function correctly? I know that my rpm is not working (maybe because of the cable?). However, the oil bulb is always hard so don't think pumping this will help the alarm.

Thanks"
 
"1: Use a clear plastic hose,

"1: Use a clear plastic hose, attach to the pump in a 'U'.
Run the engine at idle. About every 20 sec You will hear a 'click' from the pump, at the same time You will hopefully notice the oil 'drop' in the hose.
2: On the VRO (from oil section) there are 3 or 4 cables going to a connector in the wire harness. Disconnect the connector. The cable You disconnected from the oil tank is for the low-oil alarm which does not give SLOW.
5:The 'signal' comes from the regulator and is needed to get correct info to the VRO. Personally I have never experienced oil-alarm problems in connection with defect regulators, but one never knows. Hook a multimeter to the gray cable (Hz or AC). It shoul increase with revs. Even check Your charging voltage, it should be max 14.2 Volts. If climbing higher, 16+, that might set off the alarm. Even if bulb seems to be hard, do the test and press it."
 
"Nice posting, JWB.
To add in

"Nice posting, JWB.
To add info that I did not see concerning the 'old' 3 wire and 'new' 4-wire.
The old system did not have a separate B+ (red) but took power from tach circuit (gray) to run the alarm. If regulator failed, so would the alarm system. However even after the 'upgrade' the alarm might fail if the VRO does not get signal that engine in fact is running! If the VRO did not have this signal in-put, the alarm would go off just by key on.
Bottom line: A failing regulator (no tach signal) might mess up the no-oil alarm."
 
"Morten,JWB, thanks for the ad

"Morten,JWB, thanks for the advice and links; all v useful.
I have just returned from testing the engine again and have the following to report:
- we had initial problems with SLOW being activated when runing after about 10 mins at 6000-7000 rpms. No Oil was signal.
- removed and then reconnected electric 3 cable into VRO which suddenly got tacho working again so must have been a connection problem there.
- Oil filter was clean and using clear tube oil flow was very evident into the engine. Rate was up to 1 inch in about 15 seconds running at high revs. However, v difficult to feel pulses with finger on tube (impossible in fact!). SLOW then reactivated with No Oil signal even though oil going into VRO.
- Mixed oil in separate container with gas and ran from that directly, as well as with oil from oil supply tank to maximise oil into system. SLOW again activated at high speed.
- Obviously there must have been enough oil now going into engine so we disconnected the VRO 3 cable to see if SLOW still activated.
- All went well then engine suddenly vibrated and revs reduced to 2500 but no alarm went off and no light on. This happened a few times. No alarm and no light but vibration and revs limited. What do you think this was from?
- My mechanic then decided to disconnect one of the 4 wire connectors going into the coil.
It had a yellow, white, brown and black wire (from left to right as viewed from above - see photo link). One thing this connector did was to enable the engine to be switched off. ie with it disconnected couldn't switch engine off. However, with it disconnected the engine ran fine and no SLOW activated at any speed.
- We also ran engine straight from gas tank with separate oil supply (without the pre-mix to supplement the oil) and it was fine so I believe oil working fine.
- So ultimately as long as the 4 connector was disconnected nothing went wrong and the engine worked perfectly. No alarms, no SLOW etc
- What do you make of this? What does this connector do or why should disconnecting it have the effect? Do you think, as my mechanic friend does, that the coil has a problem, was maybe overheating, and then it messed up the whole timing of the firing, hence the vibration etc at speed?
- All very complicated but maybe this makes sense?!

Thanks a lot

ps I had photo of 4 connector but didn't manage to upload it (any chance of email address if you want to see photo of it?)"
 
The flat 4-pin connector You p

The flat 4-pin connector You probably disconnected was the one going into the power pack. Together with the black/yellow stop circuit there is a brown for the alarm system. Disconnecting that cable will not let the alarm system activate SLOW in the power pack.
What I read from it is that somewhere in the cable harness/alarm circuit there is 'something' sending a false alarm warning to the power pack and instrument.
Are You by any chance running NGK 'R' plugs?
 
"Thanks Morten.
Yes, it seems

"Thanks Morten.
Yes, it seems there must be something wanting to send a (false) alarm warning. We know it's not oil or temperature and so somthing else is telling it there is a problem.
We are running NGK BP6HS plugs. Can these be a problem or not suitable?"
 
"What might cause it is an &#3

"What might cause it is an 'induction' from plug cables to alarm system due to too high voltage in the cables. If You have access to Champion, that might be better. If not, change plugs and preferably no 'P' and most definitely no 'R' anywhere!!!
It might even be a short somewhere in the engine harness/contacts. Pull them all apart, clean and inspect.
In the cable harness under the panel, there is a Gray -red - and black in addition to the big contact going to the rev counter.(black and red (purple) probably already at the rev counter) Pull out the big contact from the rev-counter, then if a connector saying 'Pulse' at the back, attach the gray for rev's. This will eliminate the rev-counter/system-check from being the culprit. You will still have the alarms, but not the lights."
 
I checked the voltage across b

I checked the voltage across battery when engine running and charging and it was 14.5V - could that be the reason?
No Champion here in Liberia but will get some when return to UK. How about Bosch W8BC?
We will clean all connections and see what happens then.
Thanks
 
i dont know about the newer ch

i dont know about the newer charge rates......but vics gave me a site to look at on the heat ranges of spark plugs but it was on my old comp and i went to my old thread on 79 carb adjust and cant get the link to work anymore

but basically your eng was set up for champ plugs and the heat ranges vary on different brand plugs.......i would stick with champ

ive also read about ngk burning pistons cause thier too hot...i used them for a little while but changed back to champ and i idle better and troll better
 
"Bosh is to me a no-no at all

"Bosh is to me a no-no at all 2-stokes, exept the old Archimedes Penta.
You may use NGK -but as stated: NO 'R' at least!!
Note that Champions gets hotter (softer) at increasing numbers, NGK the opposite. Champion has tighter steps between the numbers, NGK bigger.
Going on the NGK site (international), they recomend a plug:BPZ8HS-10, I would reduce the gap to 0,8 mm. If You can get B8HS, try them."
 
"thanks david & morten.
I

"thanks david & morten.
I will get some new Champion plugs in UK (what is the exact plug serial number, do you know?)
I will avoid the Bosch then.
Also, what did you make of the charging? 14.5V? is that ok?"
 
Hi. I have found some Champion

Hi. I have found some Champion L87YC spark plugs here in Liberia. Do you think / know if these will be suitable for my 2006 Johnson 115?
Cheers
 
"Hi Morten (and anyone els

"Hi Morten (and anyone else),
I have now put in the correct Champion Ql78YC spark plugs. I also have the full workshop manual.
However, I am still experiencing problems with the No Oil, intermittent vibration but without the signal / alarm. In detail my experience last week was:

1. Engine working fine then vibrated and revs limited (SLOW). We thought it may be to do with the heat sensors (because it only happened once the engine was warmed up) so unplugged each in turn. It ran fine either without the sensors plugged in, or individually only. It seemed that it was only when the 2 sensors were plugged in together that it gave problems.

2. It ran then very well but then, suddenly, when we were trolling fishing the No Oil light / alarm came on but SLOW was not activated, alarm and light only. However, oil was going through (we had done all tests previously).

3. We then decided to do some tests as suggested in the manual. We did the following:


a. Blocking Diode test: it says to do this if engine goes into SLOW or if there is no warning signal (just like there hadn't been). Test not effective. However, couldn't find the diode anywhere in the circuit. Do you think that the diode could be responsible for the SLOW problems?

b. No Oil test. This test also proved ineffective / negative. Couldn't determine continuity of the tan / yellow wire. Do you think that this is likely to be responsible for the No Oil warning coming on from time to time?

Any help or advice would be gratefully recieved.

Regards and thanks,

Will"
 
"Did You ever do as I suggeste

"Did You ever do as I suggested above?
(Pull out the plug to the rev-counter that gives signals to the lights.)
If lights goes on but no alarm, it might be a faulty rev-counter. The blocking diode is in the Low Oil circuit, and even if defective should not give a No Oil indication and slow."
 
"Hi Morten,
If I pull out the

"Hi Morten,
If I pull out the plug attaching into the rev counter surely no light will come on? Presumably all the lights and alarms in the console will not work?

I used the boat again over the last 2 weekends and the symptoms are similar. It will work fine for at least an hour at low speed trolling, then the No Oil light and alarm will sound. I have double checked again that oil is being consumed and it seems fine. SLOW is not activated when light and alarm comes on.

It also seems that sometimes there is some problem with the delivery of gasoline to the engine but filter is clean and carbs must be also for it to run for so long without a problem (ie an hour or so).

Once the No Oil and any petrol problem occurs it seems the best thing is to run the engine faster for some time and this seems to improve things. Eg the No Oil light and alarm will not come on and petrol supply ok.

Do you think the No Oil light / alarm could be associated with the petrol? Could there be an intermittent OMS problem that is affecting both oil and petrol delivery?

Have you any ideas on what else could be the problem? This engine is driving me mad and I really want to sort it out. It seems to run so well and then this little glitch keeps on ruining it!!

Cheers

Will"
 
"The alarm will work, but no l

"The alarm will work, but no lights in the instrument. The test is just to determine if the instrument is at fault, and might create 'confusion'. As no SLOW is initiated, that might be the reason.
Just add at least 1/2% oil in the fuel to be certain."
 
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