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Boat still down...Tired very much so

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mitch_houser

Contributing Member
quick from the top...New water pump installed,carbs rebuilt.1968 50 hp mercury.....Engine runs fine.Cannot get L/U in the right place>1st problem spine that goes on shift shaft in L/U was stripped out ordered new part 2 weeks later installed didnt fix.2nd problem Then found out that the shaft that the new spline was installed on is not holding in place under pressure it was slipping at a connection between the shaft linkage.Removed power head removed shaft took to work lined it up with the flat in place tighten set screws then welded the ends no more slip.problem#3 after re-installing power head found that you could'nt shift into reverse very far found out why the plastic piece that guides the linkage was broke.removed linkage so all that you see is the shaft that linkage hooks up too.with all that out of the way,I still cant get the L/u to act right I should be able to move the shaft and it should go into gear then move the shaft oppisite way it should go into N then little more should move it into the other gear but i can move shaft it will go inot gear then move it more I can get it to go into N but can't get it into the other gear while turning the flywheel clockwise the prop will move cw.Now for the question is this piece broke ?Its the only thing I can think of.Some one throw me a bone on this one
 

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Okay try this,remove the cam,find neutral with fwd and reverse one click either either side of neutral,put the cam back on.Is your reverse lock and water tube guide in place? Is the spacer below the cam in the two slots?Looking at the pics you posted it looks like it's out of place.PA230004.jpgPA230002.jpgPA230005.jpg And as kimcrwbr1 says check that your tilt lock is moving freely,there looks to be a bit of pressure on that ramp
 
I haven't even thought of that cam being out of place seeing I know I havent removed it to make it out of place but that dosent mean my father-in law didnt he moved my wires out of place said he didnt and I marked them before I took them off put them back on just like I marked them and they where off 2 plugs.But any way Ill try that as far as the shaft inside being in a bind no way at all with L/U out I can move that shifter where the cables hook up it will move by hand so easy.The spacers are in place Looking at my pics should that slope be in another position?Guys thanks so much for the hhelp I'm about to give up and I never do that.
 
The rod your talking about moves up and down freely not in a bind at all.It's the one that the plastic piece you push up inside the middle section has a small hole in it with ears on it. I did ask a question before does it matter which way you put it in cause I've tryed both are you once its installed should you see it flat or the other way?
 
new pics again 004.jpgnew pics again 002.jpgnew pics again 001.jpghere are some pics hope they help I've taken out the distributor for better viewing the lever that hooks up to the cables moves freely the plastic piece almost out is this right way or other I've tryed both to no avail.Thanks again
 
I did answer you r question the reverse rod yes it moves freely no bind at all.But I havent even thought of removing the white plastic piece off of the shift shaft.I will deffinetly try that tomorrow after work. the black plastic piece that is a guide for the reverse rod thanks didnt know how it went on.So your saying the white piece can be not in the right place does anyone have a pic of a L/U with that piece in the right place so I can have a idea on where to start Thanks Mitch
 
This is what I have tryed as of today If you look at line #8 the pic shows the shaft to the cables.I have put it in both positons like it would be if you put it in F or R I have moved the shift shaft with the white cam piece out.and moved it as far as it could be moved in both direction. today I have had my L/u in and out 4 x's .I know two ways where totally wrong because I can't move the lever at all in the other direction.The other two ways I could move lever and it would go inot N but you move it as far as you can and your still in N move it back it will go into a F or R I dont know which it is at this point.The reverse rod is not in a bind I can move it up and down with ease with the L/U installed
 
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Hi,mitch_houser,
Can you put the lower unit in all gears while it is dropped? If you can,put it in neutral.Put the plastic cam back on with ramp to the left as you look at the lower unit from the prop and the high point a twelve o'clock.Make sure the spacer is there and the lugs/ears are in the notches.Pic #1 in my earlier post
The black plastic guide,with ears goes into the leg with the flat side down,ie.flush or recessed a little,only thing protruding is the reverse lock shaft,see pic #2 in my last post,my guide is white,while yours is black and vice versa for the cam in pic #3.
When you are putting it together,put the lower unit in rev and the control box as well.If you have the cables disconnected,make sure the shift shaft lever is in the reverse position.Pic #3 in line #8
You need that cam in place to lock the engine down in neutral and reverse.
If all that doesn't work,maybe the shift shaft is too long!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Thanks have'nt if thats your real name. I just got in a few min ago been one too long of a day I will try all this tomorrow I'm pretty sure I was miss understanding what I've been told to do so far This makes sence to me now.Ill take the cam off the shift shaft put it in N then the High side at 12:00 ramp to the left and that is the prop in front of me then the drive shaft then the shift shaft right so far.Then in my pic #3 page 8 Ill move lever to there.On the L/U is R all the CW or CCW?When I get that ans.I should be set for sure .To ans. your 1st question yes I can move shift shaft to all positions easily.And have'nt if this dosnt work I hope the water at lake is warm on Friday It might get deep 60ft drop off I swim very well.Thanks for the help and by the way what time is it in Ireland when its 6:00 pm EST on 11/15/11
 
Morning,well afternoon here:D about five hours ahead,make it 11.00pm GMT when it's 6.00 PM with you.
Rev is CCW from neutral.The three gears are all within an inch of each other.

Regards,
Noel (AKA as haventaclue)
 
As of today the boat is still broke .I got tired of it being in my garage and told father-in-law it had to go .I found a guy on craigslist talked to him about it he told me what everyone on here said to do I told him I already did.He said bring it over and after working on it on and off for 2 days called me said he couldnt fix it siad one of 2 things have happened .He hit something hard with foot and by looking at foot no visable outside damage so ruled that out other thing was he put it in reverse while moveing pretty good in forward.That I wouldnt doubt.but anyway he said there was something up with that foot that the shift fork ws bent so he said he recommeend me find another foot.So thats whats going to happen now I guess but this I do know its not coming back in my garage.Thanks Noel for the help
 
Mitch_houser,Good afternoon.Racerone is right,and I'm thinking worn clutchdog,which would mean pulling it a part. #64 http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury-outboard/parts/437_20.cfm. If you get another lower unit,pull that one apart for the fun of it.:D Then find a bottling plant and start selling patience 'cause you have more than enough,at this stage I would have picked that lower unit up and found the deepest hole in the lake/sea and dropped it in.:D.
There are plenty on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-Mercur..._Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item35b795be96 ,http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-For..._Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item5d312f39fc same part number as for your unit ,there is eight pages on ebay.Good luck
 
Thanks Noel I do have alot of it just ran out couple weeks ago.As far as him being a good mechanic he is I know what he was talking about why it wasnt working maybe he should had used a differant word but he is good.Now is it just me or does racerone seem bitter just about every reply he anserews?????
 
I wasn't running on all four when I read your post yesterday,tunnel vision.When your pal said "shift fork" he meant shift shaft #38 http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury-outboard/parts/437_19.cfm you would still need to open the unit to fix it.It will pull right out without striping the unit but to put it back you do, and true a slight bend might prevent it from going into reverse fully,if the bend is away from reverse,if you get what I mean. I don't have all the jargon,I'm not a mechanic,though I have been pulling engines out of cars since I was fifteen,and there's a lot of snow on the roof since then.And some people are just naturally cantankerous :D
 
no you was right I know what he was talking about and the dog coge whatever you call it its messed up we picked up boat today he had L/U off and you could shift it by hand and it would go into forward go into N then when you put it in reverse it would turn same direction as forward the prop turning is what im talking about turning.So I told him I would tear into it when I got a chance since its getting cold out he want take boat out anymore this yr.I think next week I'll start.
 
Finally got the time to take L/U down everything looks good .I'm not sure how much wear and tear is on the pin and cam posting pics of everything I have.Also in pic 1 what is the secret to get the brass bushing with seal in it.I need to get it out so when I put shift back in I have to put c-clip back on.shift lower cam 001.jpgshift lower cam 2.jpggears lower unit 001.jpg
 

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Hi mitch_houser,there is a special tool for that job,or you can make one.Sierra 18-9817 SHIFT SHAFT BUSHING TOOL Replaces Mercury part # 91-31107T,here on this site.Hope you kept the shim material in order for putting back. The corners on the dog look a little rounded.Cam looks ok,new one is about $20. Happy Christmas and prosperous New Year.
 
Thanks alot Noel .This has been a thorn in my flesh since I started but at least all I have in garage now is L/U anyway you think all I need is a clutch dog?Is the cam suppose to have a groove that leaves the dot positions and runs over the top I dont know if you can see it in the pic or not?
 
Afternoon mitch_houser,
The edges on the tooth of the clutch dog should be sharp,yours look a bit rounded on the reverse gear where the dog connects. The ramps on the cam look ok,be sure when reinstalling that the numbers are facing up,just like in the pic.,and the ramp should be in the forward position.Rounded end on your right,putting the longer side of the ramp to your left as you look in.
I have tried to upload pics of worn dog and reverse gear from 1969 Merc800 lower unit,should be the same.
 

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Noel ,
Thanks for the pics and info.in the process of making tool to get seal out useing 1/2 in drive socket and 7/16 allen wrench spot weld here and there viola.I was looking closer at the gears the one with all the stuff still connected is that F or R gear?it looks worn on edges bad
 
Sorry, meant to to say,that is your reverse gear attached to the bearing carrier your pic. My pics aren't the best.Whatever way I resized them,they seem to have gotten elongated,not very handy on a computer.
 
Thanks for the Christmas wishes and a happy and prosperous New Year to you too.God knows but I think we're all going to need as many blessings as we can get next year.
I looked at the pics on your other post. The cam looks good.The gear,reverse,looks chewed where the dog meshes.See the tops of the two teeth visible are worn looking.
Were there any metal bits on the drain/fill plug when removed? The dog is out of focus so can't really see it properly,but if the gear is chewed then the dog isn't going to be much better.
I did notice that your clutch is slightly different to my pic but the same principle applies.
Jeff was asking if the cam follower goes the whole back,it needs to go to engage the reverse gear fully.Otherwise it will not catch fully and slip out of gear and you get the wear on the teeth like in the pic.When it is stripped out this far,it might be the better option to replace both the clutch and the gear.Or take both to a shop and compare the wear with a known good clutch and gear.A few on on Ebay http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?..._osacat=26443&bkBtn=&_trksid=p4506.m270.l1311
 
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There does appear to be anything major wrong with the parts shown.----------I would reassemble and look into cable / control box / adjustment issues.
 
Thanks to everyone who have responded to all my post about this problem(Haventaclue-Noel,fastjeff,racerone,and others)With all the unknowns about the gears and the clutch dog and other parts that might need replaceing. I found a used one on Ebay for 200.00 plus 20.00 for shipping like I said from the start its not mine but if it was I think it would be best to do this and bolt up one thats working and be done with it.But did gain alot of knowledge from tearing this one down and we do have some extra parts that might go bad on the used one later.
 
When I had this problem on my beautiful Merc800,1969 vintage.:DMy first thought was the cable adjustment/control box.After a few hours messing on the water with no luck I resorted to a change of lower unit,mainly 'cause I couldn't dismantle the one I had.Out of curiosity,I cut it open to see how it all worked.The parts looked ok to me.:confused:
Took the parts to a Merc tech,180 mile round trip,and he said they were worn,still look ok to me.This guy was making no money out of me except the price of a can of TWC 3 and a liter of Quicksilver lwr. unit oil,and he knew that before I showed him the gears and dog.He has done a few wee jobs for me since,measured cyl bore,piston etc. and not just on my Merc.He has a nice '60 Merc on a stand,reckons it runs perfect,wouldn't sell.
So mitch_houser,if you get the one of ebay,bolt it up and if you still have the problem,as racer one says,adjust the cables/control box,though I have a feeling you have already tried that,but if the adjustment works,you can curse me from a height.But look at the experience you got.:D
If you bolt up the replacement and problem solved,yipee.Then the old lwr unit can go on ebay as parts not working to offset the purchase.And I sure hope your buddy is keeping your refrigerator stocked with beer.:D
 
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