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A rebuild engine, do you think?

T

TerryGerm

Member
A rebuilt engine?

February 4[SUP]th[/SUP]. I purchased a rebuild long block crusader 270 engine with a 7 year warranty from US Engine Inc. / Lake Washington Boat Center, Auburn, Washington. After having several issues with the engine I have it in my boat at dockside. I was in the process of installing my new exhaust manifolds when I noticed for the first time the condition of the exhaust flange on the #4 exhaust port of the head. US Engine says that this is just fine, I don’t think so and am not going to use it. Hence we have a problem between us. I will try to insert a couple of photos, What do you think?
Is this what to expect from a rebuild engine?
The 3 & 5 ports look great. The 4&6 port, with rebuild paint and then cleaned with a flat stone.
 

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I wouldn't like it myself, that's poor craftsmanship! But maybe you should get it welded, & send them the bill! If not, I'd find a high temp bonding filler, and fill it in, then file it flush, and use it. There really isn't much pressure on that surface, nor any water. The exhaust gases are just passing through the open port.
 
That casting should have never made it past inspection!!!!!!


If they do offer to replace it, make darn sure that you verify the casting numbers.
When/if you remove the head, post photos of the piston deck profile, and post the cylinder head casting number for us.
Let's see if they made any other mistakes!

.
 
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Thanks Guys,

I have spent this past week trying to deal with the rebuilder, he seems to be one of those bottom dwellers you wish to never meet. I offered to replace the head at his cost. His response if I touch the engine the warranty is completely void, if someone else works on it, void. Now it’s void for me because I have complained to him. I do not trust this rebuild and I do not want him to get away with this.


A couple of my other issues I’ve had. When I first started to assemble the engine the bold hole on the crank shaft was screwed up and I could not bolt up the harmonic balancer. I ended up taking the engine back to there shop to have them do it. They are a 100 miles away so that was not so bad since the engine was still in my barn. When I got the engine back to my barn I was going to install the engine oil splash shield below the crank. At that time I found one of the main bearing bolts backed out about a ½ inch. I torqued all the other bolts on the engine at that time.

I have considered the epoxy repair, JB weld rates itself to 550 degrees I would think this flange would run about 700 in normal operation. What other high temp products would be available?

I do not wish to devote my boat time and mines but I am looking at removing the engine for a complete refund and finding another one.

I wish everyone would chip in their comments because this would help with my fight with this engine provider.
Thanks, Terry
 
Bummer. Of course the rebuilder is betting that it will seal anyway, and he could be right...or not. Welding would be great except for the expense, the need for machining, and the very real risk of cracking. Personally I would dress the gasket with a high temp sealer (such as made by Deacon) and assemble. You can look the products up on the net and find them at industrial supply houses. These materials are made just for this purpose (sealing high temp metal flanges bolted together) and various sealers are rated for over 1000 degrees. It should work well to fill any gaps and then you can move on and find out what else, if anything, may be wrong with the build. In principle the rebuilder should make the flange right but standing on principle may not get you back in the water.

If the engine turns out to be non-serviceable because of this or other issues you can sue for up to $5000 in Oregon in small claims court. Since legal action could eventually happen all communications with the builder should be in writing and should be polite and reasonable but clear and firm. You should restate your recollection of your verbal discussions to date and of your other concerns in your first letter. Don't threaten legal action unless you really mean to pull the trigger. Just keep insisting on resolution of the problems.

Good luck.
 
there is an epoxy out there called marine tech which is very easy to work with and does a good job. I repaired a head on an 135 hp Johnson with this stuff and never had a problem. but that said my first choice would be a refund as this guy's quality control sucks. Good luck.
 
I am torn about this. It would probably be several months of fighting this fool with my boat at dockside waiting on the outcome and then still having to remove and exchange the engine. There goes summer, that isn't that long here in Washington and shrimp season is just around the corner. I think I have three options here. 1. repair the head with filler, see how the engine stands up to use. 2. replace the head, new or rebuilt and see how the engine runs. 3. Fight with this fool all summer for my refund and look for another engine.

This is the starboard engine in a twin engine 1982 Tollycraft 30' sedan so a repower would be a little overboard.

I think I lean towards, repair the head, fight the fool anyway. At least trash US Engine Inc., Auburn, WA at every opportunity!
 
Terry:

I shudder to think how unreliable in service this engine might be.

If I was you, I'd pull it down part way and see what else they screwed up (like bearing clearances, rod/ main/ head bolt torque, etc). At the same time, that bogus head could be re-machined or replaced.

If you are not up to doing this, or lack the tools/ location, perhaps you could locate a local hot rodder/ drag racer who runs SB Chevys and have him take a look. Most of these guys have the engine stand and the appropriate tools to do the job right.

Finally, since the motor is new (and clean!), this task might appeal to them.

Good luck!

Jeff
 
If you search Google under "US Engine Inc complaints" you will quickly find there is little hope of getting satisfaction from this guy except by court order. You can pile on but he is already well trashed. There is a good chance the manifold/head will seal without a filler, and an excellent chance it will seal and last with a gasket combined with any high temp (non ceramic) filler. Hopefully the rest of the engine will be OK and you can go boating. If it runs, but does not seal (unlikely), then you can replace the head. Not real expensive and you can go after him in small claims court for the cost.
 
CaboJohn said:
There is a good chance the manifold/head will seal without a filler, and an excellent chance it will seal and last with a gasket combined with any high temp (non ceramic) filler.............
Click to expand...

That would be my suggestion at this point in time.

Select a gasket that is perhaps a bit thicker than others.
Install it, run it, keep an eye on it!


***************************

Terry says:
This is the starboard engine in a twin engine 1982 Tollycraft 30' sedan

Jeff says:
If I was you, I'd pull it down part way and see what else they screwed up (like bearing clearances, rod/ main/ head bolt torque, etc). At the same time, that bogus head could be re-machined or replaced.

Rick says:
After reading what Jeff said, I'd also want to know what piston selection they made.
See this thread starting at post #7.
http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?394668-V6-to-V8-engine-swap

Your 30 foot Sedan deserves more than the "run-of-the-mill" SBC with the full dished pistons.


These so called "rebuilders" could use a lesson in the correct SBC Marine builds! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

.
 
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Rick, I do not think I am ready to get into all the tech piston upgrade, etc. Especially since I need to keep both engines the same.

I have found a product online that I have seen a couple of negatives about but it looks like it might work for this situation. Pyro-Puddy 2400 high temp sealer and metal repair. Squeezed between two flanges with no where to go it should hold up if it is half what it says.

I think I will try a repair of the head and hope for the best with the rest of the engine.
 
TerryGerm said:
1..... Rick, I do not think I am ready to get into all the tech piston upgrade, etc.

2.... Especially since I need to keep both engines the same.

3.... I have found a product online that I have seen a couple of negatives about but it looks like it might work for this situation. Pyro-Puddy 2400 high temp sealer and metal repair. Squeezed between two flanges with no where to go it should hold up if it is half what it says.

4..... I think I will try a repair of the head and hope for the best with the rest of the engine.
Click to expand...


Terry,
1.... I've been building and playing with the SBC since 1965. Mostly with the Automotive early on.... and with the Marine SBC exclusively for the last 20+ years or so.
Never, ever, ever have I built a SBC with anything other than a good Quench Effect chamber design.
You'll not find ME using that stupid full dished piston that GM introduced in the early 70's as to better control emissions. That piston can't possibly offer an effective quench or squish area...... it's just simply not possible!!!!!!
The Marine SBC (which uses a wedge shaped combustion chamber), benefits immensely from the Q/E.



2... the two engines do not require the same internal build. Adequate HP and Torque, plus being able to Synchronize RPM is what's critical for we twin engine owners.



3 and 4.... Don't waist your time. Use a heavy gasket and run it until you win your small claims case against this engine builder.
 
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