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1989 110hp Powerhead rattle/noise issue

L

loopyboat

Member
Hi, new to the forum and looking for some help and a possible diagnosis for the rattle I'm hearing when running my 1989 Evinrude 110hp V4. This is a new, re-manufactured motor with new pistons. I'm currently working through the break-in process, but certainly don't want to proceed further until I figure out the problem.

At idle, although the rattle/tick is quiet, I can hear it. It becomes more louder and pronounced at higher RPM's, especially when under load like trying to get up on plane, and while on plane. This is when it's loudest. To best describe the noise, it's a rattle, or a tick coming from around the powerhead area. Although it may be unrelated, my 2 bottom cylinders have much less carbon built up on them, and cylinder 2 has a clean, white plug. These bottom pistons are very clean, like water has been getting in.

What I have eliminated from possible causes:

Pulling the plugs, I've performed the dowel test by moving the pistons down past TDC and checking for play. No issues here.
Checked flywheel for play. None up and down or side to side.
Good strong spark on all cylinders, new powerpack.
Compression 100psi equally on all cylinders.
Prop nut properly torqued and lower unit oil clean.
Carburetors and fuel system functioning properly.

What I DID find was that when rotating the flywheel back and forth by hand, in short movements, I either hear something loose, or this is what it normally sounds like. Here is a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xsi-2cMvz0

Any help is appreciated. This motor was supposed to be professionally built but unfortunately this is the 4th problem I've had with it. Was purchased out of a reputable re-manufacturing company.
 
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loopyboat said:
What I have eliminated from possible causes:

Pulling the plugs, I've performed the dowel test by moving the pistons down past TDC and checking for play. No issues here.
Checked flywheel for play. None up and down or side to side.
Good strong spark on all cylinders, new powerpack.
Compression 100psi equally on all cylinders.
Prop nut properly torqued and lower unit oil clean.
Carburetors and fuel system functioning properly.

What I DID find was that when rotating the flywheel back and forth by hand, in short movements, I either hear something loose, or this is what it normally sounds like. Here is a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xsi-2cMvz0
Click to expand...

The last time I encountered a noise like that and play in the flywheel such as you display in that video... I had a broken crankshaft on my hands. Hopefully there is another explanation in your case.

I'd suggest that you remove the flywheel and inspect the flywheel key and the flywheel and crankshaft tapers, and also the top bearing housing assembly (loose, play in bearing?). In the video, you pretty well hide the flywheel nut when you shake the flywheel so I can tell if the crankshaft is moving the full width of that play.

There is no way that you should be able to move the flywheel like that.

What's the name of the company that rebuilt that powerhead? Did it ever run satisfactory?
 
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I can't tell from the vid if the crank is moving. From the bit of the flywheel nut I can see, I think it's moving with the flywheel. Do what Joe said. I've got a 4 V-4's, and NONE of them do what yours is doing at the flywheel. About the plugs, well how about one thing at a time.
 
The motor seems to run fine, but with a loud and noticeable rattle.

The company is Outboard Exchange out of CT. Ive been trying to get a hold of them but they are not returning my calls or emails, or take a long time to do so. I'm still inside my 1 year warranty so they need to do something about this. Problem is they are 8 hours away. Its been a real nightmare dealing with them and I regret buying the motor from there..
 
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Only thing that causes rattles is VERY VERY loose bearings.
Especially if it gets worse with speed & increasing load on the engine.

They either did nothing to the engine. OR Made a used engine into a junker that will rapidly fail after your warranty period ends. STOP payment thru your C C company. Pay the bank fee if necessary to stop payment.
 
I believe I paid with a debit card, half deposit over phone and the rest when I picked it up. How do I go about getting my money back. The warranty sheet is very vague and just states "outboard exchange guarantees this motor will run, pump water, and shift".
 
Phone call the C C company you used.

NEVER EVER use a company like that AGAIN.

Why did you decide to rebuild the original motor ?
 
I Will say that depending on the 1 hour ride on a road is not the right way to keep a engine correctly lubricated & have it last for thousands of hours.
 
cyclops2 said:
I Will say that depending on the 1 hour ride on a road is not the right way to keep a engine correctly lubricated & have it last for thousands of hours.
Click to expand...

Cyclops, what are you trying to say?? Sorry, but I don't understand your meaning.
 
There's a very good reason they aren't returning your notices. Contact your CC company to start a Hold Payment/Return Payment action against the outfit that rebuilt your engine. A reputable company would have contacted you about your notice within hours.

Outfits like what you've encountered are a dime a dozen, fly by night, and here today and gone tomorrow. Don't wait until they're gone.

I know that dismantling that engine would void all warranty BUT simply removing the flywheel as I requested to inspect as I requested above would not. Just be sure to torque the flywheel nut to 105 foot pounds when you reinstall the flywheel nut.
 
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Joe, I spoke with them today and they are willing to exchange my motor with a newer 115hp. I just need to bring my boat there so they can install and test it. I will still pull the flywheel and inspect it and let you know what I find. Whats the best way of holding the flywheel when I try to loosen the nut?
 
If it were me, I would need to ask myself what did they charge me initially... and are they simply going to exchange to the newer engine with no further financial output, OR is there more money needed for this exchange. If more $$$ is needed (or even if not), would I normally pay the total amount for whatever engine they're speaking about?

To hold the flywheel, you would need a spanner wrench such as I've pictured below, available at most auto part stores. the mobile trucks of Matco, Snap On, etc. Mechanics use this type tool to turn the flywheel in order to install a clutch pressure plate on stick shift vehicles.
Spanner-1.jpg
 
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I ended up taking the boat out today after talking with a guy at a local shop. I explained that since the motor has been rebuilt, and cylinders re-bored, I am probably experiencing some knocking of the piston skirts which isn't a big deal. This makes sense to me, the pistons are .030 over. When I ran the boat today it actually didn't rattle or knock that much, compared to last time out. Maybe it just needs to continue being broken in?

Now, you guys could give me some tips on my spark plug issues. They all look different!

Picture 047 (1000 x 750).jpg
 
Would anyone believe a automobile would need a breaking in " rattle " period

DO NO waste more money pulling the flywheel. Do the no cost swap.

Phone again about a DEFINATE NO COST swap. NO extra costs ..............Period !!
 
There should be no knocking of pistons on a properly rebuilt engine !!---Where do these " nonsense stories " come from?
 
loopyboat said:
I am probably experiencing some knocking of the piston skirts. Maybe it just needs to continue being broken in? You guys could give me some tips on my spark plug issues? They all look different!
View attachment 7211
Click to expand...

The two end plugs appear fouled. The 2nd from left looks almost normal but not quite. The 3rd plug from left looks like it hasn't been firing at all.

A properly rebuilt engine does not knock, rattle, tingle, nothing! It's just a matter of time before that thing blows up. There's nothing more we can say about that... hopefully you make the right decision and get rid of that thing.
 
Today after I took the boat out for a long ride I pulled all the plugs. The 3rd one from the left, as you said looks as if it's not firing, is now a dark brown normal looking plug. This is after I disconnected the plug leads and cleaned them. Is it possible that this cylinder wasn't firing, causing the engine to make that kind of noise because it's only running on 3 cylinders? I know its hard to tell without hearing the exact noise.
 
Did the motor "feel" any different during your last run? You'd have known if it was running on 3 or 4 cylinders, there's a HUGE difference in power. I've had mine run on 3 cyls, and it won't even plane the boat. Even if it's running better now, I'd still swap it out for the newer one.
 
No, it didn't get any different but my plugs now are a more uniform darker brown color. I still got the noise, but it's intermittent, sometimes I'll run on plane around 4500 rpm and it will make the noise, other times I will not. Same with other RPM ranges, it's on and off.
 
This might sound really dumb, but are you sure it's the motor making the noise? I had strange sound in a motor I bought this year. I was ready to pull it off the boat, and tear it apart. It turned out to be the front cowl latch handle rattling.
 
Bill_W..... The noise that engine makes when he manually swings the flywheel back and forth... I wouldn't trust that engine to cross a creek.
 
I understand both your points. Last time I went out I removed the cover and ran it and didnt hear the noise, but the motor was much louder and it may have been covering up the noise.
 
I twisted the flywheel on 3 of my V-4's this weekend, and they move the same, but the noise isn't there. There is a bit of a noise, but it's not the same. He may be hearing a bit of play in the rod bearings or wrist pin bearings, that might not be noticeable when the motors running. I'm just trying to cover all the bases.
 
why are you STILL PLAYING WITH THIS MOTOR??? IF THE REPAIR SHOP AGREED TO EXCHANGE THE MOTOR ,DO IT!!! This motor is not right. sounds like either bearings or piston slap. in either case it will not last.
 
No need to yell. They are located 8 hours away and I need to trailer my boat there. I'm trying to get a second opinion on things before I go back.

They are going to exchange my motor with a 2000 115hp OceanPro, remanufactured, rigged and tested. I'll be going in a few weeks to make the exchange.

They are a good bunch of guys, but my motor should have been tested before being sold. I'm happy with the help they have given me, and they do back their work.
 
Good shot of your thumb. Yup, I'd take it back, that is NOT right. It doesn't sound like piston slap to me, I don't know what that noise is. I'm guessing they didn't test your motor?
 
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