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1972 Volvo 270 problem

O

oldvolvoboater

New member
Hi Guys, I am trying to figure out how to post here, so bear with me!
I have a 1972 Glaspar 16' trihull that I purchased new. The boat has always run fine.
The whole family got into water skiing. We found, when sloalm (sp.) that it was hard to get up on a plane. We had to shift the load, just to make it easier. no one could ride in the rear. After a few years, I thought I could use more power. I had access to a '79 police car engine.( Chev 350 V-8 ). I recearched the job, and felt it would work. I made up an engine flywheel housing to couple to the Volvo out drive. I got marine manifolds, camshaft cover for the raw water pump, ( Neovane) , And made up front motor mounts. I had to change the outdrive gears for the V-8. and make the exhaust system.
The results where nothing short of great.
I have been running this boat for almost 30 years, with only occasional water pump problems.( new impeller etc. )
Well this year, I ran the boat on the trailer, before going on vacation. Every thing seemed fine. when we got to the lake, the daughter took my grandson out to ski and it ran fine. I asked her how it ran and she said " Just fine. running right at 140 degrees"
The next morning she took off from the dock,the wife ran down to bring her the kneeboard , witch they had forgot. She came back to the dock, to get the board, backed out to go. When she put it in gear " Bang ". you would not belive the noise!
Every thing looks fine. The noise is coming from the bell housing erea. You won't run it long because it sounds like someone with hammers triing to get out.
Well I am 82 years old now and not looking forward to taking any thing apart that I don't have to. Any ideas what has happened???
Art
 
Thanks for the reply braxton! I had one go when I had the 130 engine in it, but that was a grinding scraping noise.
I don't think it is u-joints or PDS bearing, as I had no previous noise.
I put in a heavy duty drive plate when I did the conversion, but I guess nothing lasts forever! ( This from a 82 year old !!!!!! )
 
There is no clutch disc in this system that I am aware of, and I've been working on these for over twenty years. You may be thinking of the drive coupler.... sort of looks like a car/truck clutch disc, without any friction material on it.

I'm going to suggest Primary Drive Shaft bearings!
You'll need to remove the transmission.... (IMO, best to remove the transmission ONLY) and examie the PDS.
If you can move this at all.... up/down/side to side, with any excessive amount of play, then you have one or two bad PDS bearings.
A failure here is often the cause of the noise that you describe.

Bearings are a standard p/n, are cheap, and can be purchased from any major bearing supplier.

Since you converted to the SBC V-8, you likely have a Double Bearing PDS...... and it must be driven out from FWD.... with the engine removed.
If your PDS uses the single bearing (Ford engines did... Chevy's did not until much later in year models), many times this will be removable from AFT.

Rick
 
Hi Rick, thanks for the reply. I knew what braxton mean't, because the plate looks like a clutch plate with no lining material on it. The engine I put in is a Chev 350 V-8 out of a police car. The flywheel housing and the out unit, we made up by using an old Chevy clutch housing and fastening it to a Volvo housing.
When you say that I could remove the transmisson only, is this possible on a 1972 Chrysler- Volvo outdrive? I thought it was only possible on the later model units.
Art I am out in Aloha, Oregon
 
Volvo allowed some of the drives to have the Chrysler name on them. Same drive, different name, unless you have one that Chrysler actually manufactured.
But since you posted in the Volvo Penta forum, I assume it is a Volvo.
If it is Volvo, then it is a three piece drive: Transmission on top......, Intermediate housing in the center...., lower unit... well lower unit!

If you are talking about the Borg Warner -slash- Vovlo Penta primary drive shaft adapter housing, then yes....... that will encase your PDS.
Those are the bearings that I am referring to.

Modifying an auto bell housing has me curious, when the Borg Warner pattern Flywheel Covers for SBC have been around for years.
The FWD flange of that adapter housing is Borg Warner Marine six bolt pattern!
Even the Eaton and Holman Moody were B/W pattern.

So yeah... pull the transmission shift mechanism first and peek inside. Then pull the trans and peek at the PDS.
 
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I really hope, especially since family with kids use this, that when you put the police car engine in it you installed MARINE
1) Starter
2) Alternator
3) Distributor
4) Carburetor
5) Fuel Pump

Else, not only are you in violation of the law, but courting a disaster...
 
Thanks Capt Bob, Not only those, But spark arrester, Vapor detector, and automatic bilge pump.
Another, and safer, feature - I donot have a " Dog House ". Having a full deck across the back, to open up, gives lots of air circulation.
Art
 
Rick, Not yet. I am still a little confused, about taking the transmission off with the out unit still on the boat. This is defintally a Volvo 270 outdrive. I have the Volvo manual for it, dated 1971. it shows the PDS with one bearing. I still have the original gears from the lower end and a PDS shaft. It has two bearings on the shaft, both the unsealed type. I am trying to remember if I replaced the PDS bearing with a sealed type, back then, or not. I do remember that I replaced the ujoints and they cross reference to a Plymouth Valient ujoint. I do remember a lot about all that I did, but this was almost 30 years ago!
Art
 
Art, if it has been that long, you certainly need install new drive bellows, and need to re-seal this out drive, and then do a leak down test.

As for transmission removal, you'll have to take my word that this is what you want to do.
You can replace the drive bellows, water neck fitting and shift cable (if bad) at this time as well.
This is much easier than removing the entire drive.... and there is no need to.
The cost is four O-rings only... five if oil filling through the hollow bolt!
 
Rick, Thanks again, I will give it a try.
In my younger years, I would just undo the out drive. I do remember that the bellows and hose clamps can be a bear to get at. I was thinking that I better check the bellows anyway, as a leaking bellows can cause a lot of damage.
Art
 
Well I finally got back to the boat! The wife can find flenty of things that have to be done!!!
I pulled the transmission off the 270, everything can apart easiliy. The ujoints look good and the PDS bearing. So I am starting to take the the engine out.
No sign of rust anywhere. One throw of the rear ujoint is a little tight, so I will replace the ujoints.
I will have to hook up the comealong to raise the engine. I will wait to get my son hear, to get at the bell housing bolts, as I don't work to well, hanging upside down!
Art
 
Back again. I pulled the engine out today. Hard to get at some of the bolts!!!
Much to my surprise the drive plate looks fine. Every thing is clean, no rust or corrosion.
I was really surprised. The only thing left is to pull the PDS. It comes out from the rear and I am having trouble getting the snap ring out.
I only have about eight snap ring pliers and cann't get any iof them to hold.
Rick, The PDS bearing turns freelly, but feels a little loose. No roughness.
Well I will get it out and see if it is OK. If it is , then I am stumped !!!!!
Art
 
Art, there are no snap ring plyers that work well for this when the snap rings are so deeply into the PDS bore.
For this, I use a pair of extra long needle nose plyers with the tips modified to accommodate the eyelets of the snap rings.
I grind them round, then I tweak the tips inward some.
This prevents them from sliding out of the eyelets.

They work better than any other tool that you can buy, IMO.
 
Art, it is impossible to tell how good a PDS bearing is while the PDS is still in the housing.
If there was a way to tell...., I'd have figured it out by now.

What I can tell you, is when a bearing is real bad! But that doesn't help us!

Have you looked closely at the drive coupler? It may look OK, but may be damaged.

You may also want to check the PDS for run-out (once you have it removed)!

You may want to also look closely at the Universal Drive shaft individual components.

I've also seen where a Main Drive Gear male yoke fastener has broken. When this breaks, the bearing pre-load changes, as well as the gear pattern. The shaft is also able to move back and forth.

I've seen many odd things at least once. But to categorize any common issues for you that are symptomatic of what you describe.... just limits me. These things just don't go bad like this... at least not very often.

When you get this torn down, can you post some pictures?
 
Hi Guys, Well I finally got the PDS bearing out. It was in good shape, a sealed bearing. I must have did the sealed bearing when I made the engine change ( thirty years ago ). So I took the ujoints apart. The rear ujoint had one leg of the cross, rusted up. That was all that I found wrong! I find it hard to believe that all the noise was from the ujoint.
Rick, I took your advise, about the Snap ring (circlip ) pliers! We still had trouble getting the snap rings out. Then I cut a small ridge on the tip of the pliers. Success!!!! Thank goodness for Harbor Freight. You hate to pay good money for an expensive tool and then grind it up.
Well I will get new PDS bearings and seals, Ujoints and Orings and put things back together.
Thanks everyone for your help! This has been an enteresting experience.
Art
 
Hi Guys, Well the boat is back up and running. Everything is quiet, as normal. The problem was that one throw of the rear u-joint was rusted and worn out! It surprises me that all that noise was from the u-joint. without any pre warning! I wonder about u-joints, as all my experience with them, it it always one cup that goes bad!
Well thanks for all the good help from everyone. I really appreciate it!
Thanks again Art
 
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