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AQ280 Prop rotation

Actually... there is a way.

Bore a small round "peep hole" into the flywheel cover..... possibly in the areas where I drew in the blue circles.
A nice round small hole will not sacrifice any integrity.
 

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Hmm. Not a bad idea!. Im not sure i can get in there to drill a hole or one big enough to see into.
There is a inspection plug drivers side that i removed and all you can see is the flywheel and ring gear. It was totally dry with no evidence of grease or oil on it though which i assume is a good sign.
 
Pat, I have not done any testing for this scenario. But I'm thinking that if the FWD seal has been pushed out of it's bore, it's doubtful that the grease would reach the drive coupler or flywheel. The seal will be hanging on the PDS blocking it somewhat.

The PDS is also a rather small diameter, so the volosity may not be enough to sling the grease out with much force.
I think that it's more likely to just droop and fall.
But then again, I've never had the need to test or investigate this! :D

Are you able to rent or borrow a Bore Scope Camera?
 

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LOL.
Now that you mention it a friend at work just bought a new Craftsman bore scope! I don't think he has even used it yet. I might be the first:eek:
 
Got my outdrive all back together and mounted;)
Did a leak down test and it leaks:(

The only place i think it could be coming from is the input shaft seal. It did give me a little trouble going in but it looked fine once installed. Guess im going to need to pressure it up some how and check it out with some soapy water. If i can't find any leaks that way ill have to take it all back apart to fix that seal and that is a real PITA!
 
Well never had this happen before and i have been working on stuff a LOT of years:rolleyes:
Was leaking between the lower unit and mid section.
Hope there is no more after i get this back together!
 

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So. Went to 2 boat shops and Napa and none had the O Ring. Took a long shot and went to the "Co Op" farm and garden store and sure enough they have a 5 by 6 foot section of O Rings so i bought 2 of the right size.
Put it in did a simple pressure test and no leaks:cool:
I can't do a real pressure test as i have no pressure gauge or a way to hook one to the outdrive.
I do have a compressor though and can manage getting a good seal for a few minutes at about 4ish psi according to the pressure regulator. Long enough to spray it with soapy water.
Did barrow a Mityvac and it is holding 3.6 pounds for the last hour:). Going to check it later today and if still holding then tomorrow morning i spect it will still be holding
 
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Oh as i side note.
Its not where you would normally look for boat parts but if you have a local mom & pop CoOp farm store give them a shot!
I needed SS cap screws. After looking around town they had them. Needed this O Ring, They had them.
They always seem to have the little odd thing you really need when you can't find it any place else and now i will never need to order O Rings again!
 
Hmmm Guess what you learn reading the manual. 3.6 psi is totally wrong!
I know have the vacuum set to -50kpa and seems to be holding.
Although it says it must not lose more then 3.4kpa during 3 minutes i suppose it would not hurt to leave it for a little bit longer.
 
Pat, these are "leak down" tests of which involve a time duration. In other words..... the drive must hold both positive and negative pressure over a time period.
Oil must be drained for the Pressure L/D test!

Both the drain plug and dip stick threads are 3/8" NC.
You can make a fitting for a test air supply, shrader check valve and pressure/vacuum gauge.


Be careful substituting farm/general O-rings for OEM. Some of the OEMs cannot be cross referenced.
We'll see some differences in material, density, thickness, etc.


.
 
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I lowered it to 10kpi and just checked it. It is still at 10kpa and ill leave it till around noon today. Been close to 12h so far.
I suppose your right and i just need to make a fitting for a pressure test. Just hate spending the money for it.
The O Rings are for rebuilding pumps mostly. I did buy 2 so ill take the extra one and put it in some 30wt oil just to make sure it does not expand.
I did make sure it felt like the same stuff and it is so close to the same diameter i could not tell any difference.
Also there is no oil in it and i did spin it over a couple times as the manual said.
 
The press/vac L/D test should capture only that volume of the drive's oil and gear cavity........ meaning that no hoses, regulator nor air tank should be included.
The beauty of a drive press/vac testor, is that it does this only.

Hope that makes sense.

Edit:

Here's an old thread that I posted to regarding a tester that I prefer.

http://www.baylinerownersclub.org/index.php/forum/technical-discussion/25384-pressure-testing-280

Here's a picture of Tom Green's unit.

http://www.allstates-marinesurveyors.com/outdrive_tester.jpg

.
 
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Ok Shift gears a little bit for a few minutes.
Went and did a dumb thing.
I have new gauges coming so i took out the old gauges. Wiring was kind of a mess so i took it all out figuring i could just look in the manual and fallow the diagram. Well there is none in the manual for wiring the instruments and switches.
I have been looking for one online but can't seem to find one that matches. I can find some that are close but missing the orange wire usually I have a 8pin plug with 8 wires. The awg is a guess

red (10awg)
black (10awg)
orange (10awg
gray (14awg)
purple (14awg)
tan (14awg)
lt blue (14awg)
white (14awg)
Im sure a multimeter and a day could fix it also but a diagram would sure be nice if some one has one.
 
......................

PatinIdaho said:
Ok Shift gears a little bit for a few minutes.
That will rotate the eccentric piston.... good call.
You'll also want to rotate the prop shaft while under press/vac during the LD test.


Went and did a dumb thing.
I have new gauges coming so i took out the old gauges. Wiring was kind of a mess so i took it all out figuring i could just look in the manual and fallow the diagram. Well there is none in the manual for wiring the instruments and switches.
I have been looking for one online but can't seem to find one that matches. I can find some that are close but missing the orange wire usually I have a 8pin plug with 8 wires. The awg is a guess

red (10awg) Helm power
black (10awg) Helm Negative (technically there is no ground in 12vdc system)
orange (10awg) This is typically seen when an Amp Meter is at one helm or the other.
This would mean power To/From the Amp Meter and back to the engine/hull harness..... I.E., a potential voltage loss.
I would eleminate an Amp Meter in lieu of a Volt Meter, then abandon the orange circuit.

gray or white (14awg) usually tachometer
purple (14awg) ignition
tan or brown (14awg) temp gauge
lt blue (14awg) oil pressure

Im sure a multimeter and a day could fix it also but a diagram would sure be nice if some one has one.
Click to expand...
 
I have a fitting made up with a pressure gauge attached so now i can do a proper p/v test.
The test procedure ill use is on page 126 of the manual i have. Its does not list time for total test.
It does not say how long to leave it or how much p/v to use after the initial high pressure and vacuum test.
 
3RD gear:rolleyes:
I read some place(i though in this thread) that when replacing the exhaust elbow gaskets you want to use the fully open ones.
Well i ordered the ones like the ones that came off when i took them off with little holes on the ends not fully open style. I can change that though if the fully open ones are the proper gaskets to use by just cutting out the ends?

Also Ricardo you mentioned to order the flexible exhaust hose 2 inches longer then what i have. Mine measure 6in so i need 2, 8in sections?
 

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Pat, me in blue text.

PatinIdaho said:
3RD gear:rolleyes:
I read some place (i though in this thread) that when replacing the exhaust elbow gaskets you want to use the fully open ones.
The AQ series exhaust system does not accommodate a Full Closed Cooling system.
(manifold supply ports are too small, elbows are not ported, and the down angle of the elbow does not allow for a ported riser/spacer)

If you are either seawater or closed system cooled, the exhaust Elbow transfer ports must be fully open.

Well i ordered the ones like the ones that came off when i took them off with little holes on the ends not fully open style. I can change that though if the fully open ones are the proper gaskets to use by just cutting out the ends?
See above.

Also Ricardo you mentioned to order the flexible exhaust hose 2 inches longer then what i have.
These use 95mm soft wall Marine exhaust hose, of which is not actually flexible in terms of making angle turns.
This 95mm soft wall hose can be somewhat difficult to source.

Mine measure 6in so i need 2, 8in sections?
The OEM are almost always too short. Why.... I don't know!

You'll need enough length so that the two elbow band clamps do not squeeze down over the scalloped areas of the elbow, and yet enough length to slip onto the Y-pipe with enough material for those two band clamps to tighten down on the pipe.

Reason: if the one of the two elbow clamps tighten down over the elbow's scalloped area, the hose will eventually become depressed into the scallops.
This will restrict outgoing spent seawater and may cause over-heating.
Click to expand...

Here are the elbow mixing chamber "scalloped" areas that I am talking about.
Also, two OEM 95mm exhaust couplers (the ones that are too short).

Keep in mind that two worm drive band clamps are required at each end of the exhaust couplers...... or a single SS T-bolt clamp can be substitued at each end if that helps.
 

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Here's a better image of the spent seawater transfer ports, and the scalloped areas.
 

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Sorry for jumping all over the place but im getting to the little bits finally.
My exhaust flapper arrived today and im wondering if any has some measurements on drilling the holes for mounting it on a 280 drive. Or a few pics so i can at least try to match the bend radius.
 
PatinIdaho said:
Sorry for jumping all over the place but im getting to the little bits finally.
My exhaust flapper arrived today and im wondering if anyone has some measurements on drilling the holes for mounting it on a 280 drive. Or a few pics so i can at least try to match the bend radius.
Click to expand...


Pat, if "radius" refers to the bump or hump at the 280 outlet, that part becomes ground or filed down.
The 290 and later flapper area did not have the bump there. Your new 290 flapper will not conform to it.

After the bump is gone, you can dry fit the flapper and SS straps.
I use small vise grip C style clamps to hold the parts in place.

You will no doubt need to clip a small portion of the flapper away where the two halves join in the center.

Once your fit is OK, just use the SS straps for your drill guide as per your pop rivot diameter.

On the top side of the outlet, very carefully drill a recess for each of the pop rivot heads to rest in.
 

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So i need a new prop and i think what i have works but is not the right setup

I Think i have a long shaft with a short hub?
I have looked at some pics but they all show to measure from a shoulder to the end of the splines or end of the threads
So im a little confused:confused:
Sorry there not clearer. Can't find the good camera!

Also any help with above post #107?
 

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PatinIdaho said:
So i need a new prop and i think what i have works but is not the right setup

I Think i have a long shaft with a short hub?
I have looked at some pics but they all show to measure from a shoulder to the end of the splines or end of the threads
So im a little confused:confused:
Sorry there not clearer. Can't find the good camera!

Also any help with above post #107?
Click to expand...

Pat, the 280 prop shaft is longer than the 250, 270, 275....... but all net the exact same exposed spline length when the correct spacer/line cutter is used.
Your 280 prop shaft requires the long spacer/line cutter regardless of prop hub length.

BTW, you would not be the first to misunderstand this........ as there is some misinforming information out there!


.
 
PatinIdaho said:
I have a fitting made up with a pressure gauge attached so now i can do a proper p/v test.
The test procedure ill use is on page 126 of the manual i have. Its does not list time for total test.
It does not say how long to leave it or how much p/v to use after the initial high pressure and vacuum test.
Click to expand...

I realize that the manual lacks giving us some information.

10 to 12 psi is good for the pressure leak-down test.
Pressure may become reduced, but it should flatten out and hold 7-8 or so psi for hours.
The longer it holds the better.

Oil must be drained for this test!



Vacuum (negative pressure) is measured via In.Hg. (inches of mercury being drawn up a vertical column).
Draw as much negative pressure as you can… you will not harm the seals.
By nature of design, the seal with the least holding resistance will cause the vacuum reading to flatten out.
A good holding reading will be in the range of 6 to 8 InHg.
Again, the longer it holds the better.

The oil need not be drained for this test!


.
 
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It is confusing for sure!
If it was yours and your ordering a new prop what would you get? Short or long

Thanks for the p/v information. Ill be sure to let you know the results of the test!
 
Re: POST #107... It took a bit of doing ( annoying permission restrictions) but the attached page from the
OEM shop manual shoud help. Zoom in (CTRL +) to read.
Pressure_Vacuum test.jpg
 
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HI. Yes that is the test but if you notice it has no mention of a time or pressure over 3 minutes. That might be all the factory recommends though i don't know so that is why im fallowing Ricardos suggestion.
After all he is a old gray haired librarian by day, and a grocery store stock boy by night.
So i will be fallowing his advise to get this project all bagged up and on the water!
 
Yes, the longer the better is true, but.... the intent of the limits in the OEM manual are to establish a go/no-go for the drive. Lets say for example you test the drive and all is OK @ 3 mins, but at 1 hour ( or 20 mins?) it has dropped more than the specified limit. What are you going to do? Look for the leak? Tear down the drive? At that slow a leak rate finding the leak may be challanging.

Recently had a consulting client who had a high reject rate in final test of an industrial temperature controller and an unacceptedly low production through put for the day.
Turns out that 3/4 of the failure rate was the tester trying to "make it better" by adjusting certain parameters to a 10X tighter spec than they were supposed to. The low thruput was also related to this since the reading naturally varied slightly with time and they kept "chasing" the dither in the reading, and failing otherwise good controllers as "unstable".
 
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