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93 Mercruiser 3.0, how on earth can it get an internal crack in the block?

well, I still have more testing to do, to further confirm that I don't have a internal cracked block. I know that if the engine was warmed to normal operating temperature,I may have had an internal leak, now that I did the air pressure test on a dead cold engine, my results may not be true, from what I understand...

I will update when I can truly confirm that I have no internal cracked block, then I will move in the direction I need to go with this 3.0

I will pull the pan, and check for internal cracks inside the block. I will pull the head and inspect gasket, and head surface, and test the intake manifold, and report back. This will take some time to do...

thanks all for the advice
 
RicardoMarine said:
Kghost, you are a sharp guy and a great contributor here, however I must respectfully disagree with you on these several points:


You made no mention previously of bending the hose down as to drain the circ pump.
If you had intended to include this, then we are in agreement!

Residual seawater within the block may dilute antifreeze!
If we insist on the "feel good" feeling of antifreeze corrosion protection, always drain this again afterwords, and we will not have a problem.

Your thoughts regarding leaving the drive in the up position for the winter duration, is incorrect!
The life of driveshaft Bellows can be extended some when we do not practice this!
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Really Rick ??. When is your word the best over others ??

The last time I checked on You, You live in a trailer and theres NO RicardoMarine registered shop in Oregon...

Do You guys see a repair shop here ??... I don't

Ricksbackyard_zps35c73b9d.jpg
 
Gosh........ I've been had!!!!!!

I want to extend my deepest apologies to any of you who feel as though you have been tricked into thinking that I knew anything at all about Marine engines and Sterndrives!

What was I thinking???? Sheesh!


WES from NY, would you please offer your expert opinions, and possibly some clarifications on this particular topic for us?
I would be very disappointed if the OP accepted any of my suggestions without clarification and/or corrections by you!

Thank you in advance

(I'm looking forward to reading your contributions in the future)

***********
buckz....

I will apologize for the interruption by this rude, immature, and disruptive member. This is not the first time that he is done this.
It should be obvious to you that this member (WES from NY) has an old bone to pick with me, and that he lacks integrity and the ability to conduct himself as an adult.


Unfortunately, you would need quite a bit of history to understand what just occurred in your thread!



.
 
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RicardoMarine said:
Gosh........ I've been had!!!!!!

I want to extend my deepest apologies to any of you who feel as though you have been tricked into thinking that I knew anything at all about Marine engines and Sterndrives!

What was I thinking???? Sheesh!


WES from NY, would you please offer your expert opinions, and possibly some clarifications on this particular topic for us?
I would be very disappointed if the OP accepted any of my suggestions without clarification and/or corrections by you!

Thank you in advance

(I'm looking forward to reading your contributions in the future)

***********
buckz....

I will apologize for the interruption by this rude, immature, and disruptive member. This is not the first time that he is done this.
It should be obvious to you that this member (WES from NY) has an old bone to pick with me, and that he lacks integrity and the ability to conduct himself as an adult.


Unfortunately, you would need quite a bit of history to understand what just occurred in your thread!



.
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Don't worry about it....I'm just happy to be on this side of the dirt:)
 
RicardoMarine said:
Believe me....... you should be!
:D :D


Hopefully, we can now continue without any further disruptions by this knucklehead!



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I agree,

Way out of line!!!! He must have had a few to many............

I live in a small house, NO garage, No parking lot, My tools are in my basement.

Of course I did work in a full service and sales water front marina as a fully certified Merc, OMC tech for over 5 year before I returned to industry for better money and benifits. Then I worked out of my house for over 15 years.........some mobile most in the grass on the side of my house........

Who cares where you do the work........as long as you can do it....they did not pay me for my location but my knowledge and """"expertise""" (take with a grain of salt)......


Christ! I rebiult a 350 inboard in my driveway two summers ago...........no less the work or the success!!

Oh and try to find me on the internet...........No mention of me anywhere.................
 
Kghost........ very well said, and thank you!

If this knucklehead had even half a brain, he would be able to see that people like you and I, and many others, do indeed know what we're talking about more often than not!

It all boils down to past and present experience, of which I just happen to have at least 45 years of.
Not only experience...., but this would include past successes and failures that we all learn from.
And these do not necessarily need to be from our own successes and failures....., we also earn from other's successes and failures as well!

Basically, there are two methods that we learn from:
...... experientially, and exemplary!
No one method is better than the other, because we all gain knowlede differently.


WES from NY, I would suggest that you find a way to spend your time more constructively.
See if you can pull together some integrity, and help the people on this forum, rather than to continue being disruptive in these threads.
Make yourself larger........ not smaller!




..
 
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WES from NY said:
Really Rick ??. When is your word the best over others ??

The last time I checked on You, You live in a trailer and theres NO RicardoMarine registered shop in Oregon...

Do You guys see a repair shop here ??... I don't
Click to expand...

Ayuh,.... You've been Banned at 'bout every forum on the web Wayne,....

Here,.... iboats,..... How many others,..??

Ya really oughta quit Drinkin',...
As nice a guy as you can be, when Sober,...
Yer a real azzwhole when Drunk,...

This Moron was accusing Other posters of bein' Rick, in disguise, so he got Booted from iboats, just in the last month or so,...

Get a Life, dude,.....
 
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update!
I got the head off this evening, after letting the head bolts soak in penetrating oil over night. I had two bolts that were rusted bad on the external threads, and shaft. it took a while to get them loose with an 1/2" air impact


Then I had to use a blade to wedge between the head, and block just to break it free from the block
I would appreciate any opinions on what the head, and block, thanks!
0220141850c_zps0507eb61.jpg

this pic I outlined in red where I had to use a scrape to wedge between the head, and block to separate the two
2014-02-20-19-08-56_zpsddc43ab6.jpg

Here is the block
0220141851c_zpsd7ed4279.jpg
 
I will be checking the head, and block cylinder walls for internal cracks. If i find none, I will then flip the block, and remove the pan, then check for internal cracks
 
Well, I thought I would update this thread of what I found once mounted the engine on the stand, and removed the pan...


I saw a vary clean engine, with only some minor rust spots on some of the crankshaft counterweights, and block, kinda just random areas. I had a high power light, and looked around inside of the block, in every nook, and cranny, turned the engine to several different angles, so as to get a better look into some of the hard to see areas, for about 1 1/2 hours.


I then went across the street to my neighbors home, and asked if he wouldn't mind looking at it with me, for a second opinion ( he used to own a Marine Dealership for years, in Florida, serviced may engines, so I value his opinion)


I know that I need to find out what he thought, he had been back and forth, on his opinion, like I was....maybe internal crack block, maybe not a internal cracked block, possible a partially submerged engine...


Well he looked inside it, and looked inside it, and looked inside it...and I quote
" I see no evidence of an internal cracked block, just vary minor rust on the crank counterweights, and block, in random areas, which just wiped off with his finger, it all looks brand new!" He said " If I were you I would clean the bottom end up a bit, get as much of the milky out of her, turn her upright, put it all back together, do some valve work,and start her up" he also believes partial submersion, but not for a long time, or the bottom end would have rusted up more than it is, he thinks. I am not sure either bout that....we will never know the full story of what happened to this engine, other than freezing at some point


as usual, I appreciate the comments, good or bad....
just a few pics
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Here are my thoughts,

1. I do not feel there was any reason to take the motor down as far as you have.

2. I would have fired it up and let it warm up to operating temperature and see what happened.

3. Visually looking for block casting cracks at room or lower than room temperature is near impopssible unless it was very obviuos. The only way I know of finding small hair line cracks that could expand under operating temps is to magnaflux the block....

4. Water in the oil could simply be becaise the previuos owner allowed water to biuld up inside the boat and did not remove the plug at the transom and it got high enough to get in thru the dip stick tube.

Also cylinder 3 looks different from the rest.....it may have had a blown head gasket and water could have mixed with the oil that way.........
I would suspect all the piston tops would look more like # 2 or just a bit leaner (not so much carbon) ( cyclinders 2 and 3 should be more rich compared to 1 and 4 as they are closest to the carb.

At this point I would reassemble everything with fresh gaskets, oil and filter and install intake and carb and run it on your floor or driveway. Hook a hose directly to the incomming water hose (from transom to thermostat housing) and have at it.

Let the motor run at ~ 1000 rpms until warm. Check oil.......see where you are at.

If water did get into the motor and mixed with the oil it may take 2 -3 oil and filter changes to get it all out. Use cheap off the shelf oil for testing. no need to buy expensive oil.

Once you are shure there is water or is No water getting in the oil (the oil level will increase on the dip stick if water is getting in) then plan your next step.


I understand your wanting to know and see everything and it may be a good exercise but I also think it wasted valuable time and you still wont know until you actually run it...........
JMHO..........
 
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kghost said:
Here are my thoughts,

1. I do not feel there was any reason to take the motor down as far as you have.

2. I would have fired it up and let it warm up to operating temperature and see what happened.

3. Visually looking for block casting cracks at room or lower than room temperature is near impopssible unless it was very obviuos. The only way I know of finding small hair line cracks that could expand under operating temps is to magnaflux the block....

4. Water in the oil could simply be becaise the previuos owner allowed water to biuld up inside the boat and did not remove the plug at the transom and it got high enough to get in thru the dip stick tube.

Also cylinder 3 looks different from the rest.....it may have had a blown head gasket and water could have mixed with the oil that way.........
I would suspect all the piston tops would look more like # 2 or just a bit leaner (not so much carbon) ( cyclinders 2 and 3 should be more rich compared to 1 and 4 as they are closest to the carb.

At this point I would reassemble everything with fresh gaskets, oil and filter and install intake and carb and run it on your floor or driveway. Hook a hose directly to the incomming water hose (from transom to thermostat housing) and have at it.

Let the motor run at ~ 1000 rpms until warm. Check oil.......see where you are at.

If water did get into the motor and mixed with the oil it may take 2 -3 oil and filter changes to get it all out. Use cheap off the shelf oil for testing. no need to buy expensive oil.

Once you are shure there is water or is No water getting in the oil (the oil level will increase on the dip stick if water is getting in) then plan your next step.


I understand your wanting to know and see everything and it may be a good exercise but I also think it wasted valuable time and you still wont know until you actually run it...........
JMHO..........
Click to expand...

just to answer some of your questions, and thanks for your input. I really appreciate it:)

1. I did the motor break down because other members suspected an internal engine block crack. I have 3 threads including this one, on other forums, don't want to have my eggs in one basket, if you know what I mean.

2. My initial thoughts if I remember, were to put it back together, and run it, see what happens, but I chose to go further into it, just to satisfy my own curiosity, and that of other members who were helping me with this project.

3. I agree with you, but I thought I, and other members wanted to know what the bottom end looked like.

4. I agree with you. I too think the engine was partially submerged, for how long, not sure. I took today of the inside transom engine compartment, (not as clear as I would have like it to turn out) and I think it has a distinct water line mark, if so, would or could water enter the gimble bearing, yoke area, and ruin that bearing? also I found out that the front engine mount holes, had water, and rotten wood, maybe another sigh?
0224141420_zpse38829b4.jpg

0224141420a_zpsd6eda5e4.jpg


I also agree cyl 3 looks different, and may have blown letting water mix with the oil

I would like to know if there is a topic on how to wire this engine to run outside the boat, the ignition coil wiring is different than what I'm used to.

I too agree that I may have wasted my time, and wish I would have went with my first initial thought...

I have ordered gaskets, ect, and should be here this week. I will try to get all of it back together, soon, but carefully, then try to start it up, see what happens

thanks again Kghost for your input
 
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I Sent you a pm with my phone number call me and I will tell you what you need to know.
 
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Yes,

Disconnect the large connector Which I asume you already did. All wires on the motor harness should be reconnected.

CD with data we discussed is being shipped today!!
 
I agree with Kghost in that a small crack or hairline fracture is near impossible to detect by the ***** eye.
The proper method is what he describes...... Magnafluxing!

IMO, you have circumvented an otherwise very important leak-down test.
No harm/no foul if you don't mind the project!

While the cylinder head is removed, you could at least have the surface checked via Magnafluxing.

If you establish telephone contact with Kghost, be sure to pick his brain regarding proper cylinder head replacement.
Aalso make certain that you understand the proper procedure when you go to readjust your cam followers.

You certainly do not want to create further damage.

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This project has been a lot different than what I thought initially.

I am not a certified professional auto/boat tech, who knows how to troubleshoot an issue, find the problem, have the equipment and resources to repair the suspected problem, and get it right the first time.

I am however, just a man who loves to work on most anything mechanical with a few exceptions. I have been wrenching as a DIY guy for a long time. I do mechanical work also for a select few family members, and close friends, sometimes I charge, most times I don't.

I just want to say a big Thank You!! to the professionals ( you know who you are) that freely give concise, correct, professional guidance, to folks like me,.....my hat is off to you!!

I will continue to update this thread on my progress of this project, ask for advice, and guidance to move forward, heck this is just the beginning. I also have to fix this,and this ect, which Kghost and I agree had water intrusion, from submersion
0202140958_zps0b1fb5e5.jpg

0209141040a_zps28ef970a.jpg

and this is my 1200.00 project boat I purchased
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This is what is typically used to pull the gimbal bearing.....

The info I sent you has pics and demensions for the alignment tool.

You may be able to rent this type of tool from a auto parts store
 
Buck, we understand!
Most members who post questions here are do-it-yourselfers, like yourself!
Those of us with more experience, or perhaps who do this professionally, are more than willing to help out.

So keep the photos, questions and updates coming!

:D

.
 
kghost said:
This is what is typically used to pull the gimbal bearing.....

The info I sent you has pics and demensions for the alignment tool.

You may be able to rent this type of tool from a auto parts store
Click to expand...

Kghost, Thanks! that project probably come around in in due time, I am sure. I am not looking forward to it, because like you mentioned, the bearing is the original, and not flipped.....so I will put that on the back burner, for now:)
 
RicardoMarine said:
Buck, we understand!
Most members who post questions here are do-it-yourselfers, like yourself!
Those of us with more experience, or perhaps who do this professionally, are more than willing to help out.

So keep the photos, questions and updates coming!

:D

.
Click to expand...

thanks! keep doing what you do, and I will keep the questions, updates coming:)
 
kghost said:
Yes,

Disconnect the large connector Which I asume you already did. All wires on the motor harness should be reconnected.

CD with data we discussed is being shipped today!!
Click to expand...
thanks you Kghost, for the cd. I got it this evening
I am looking forward to viewing this while having a cold one tonight
thanks, again
 
Well, here is an update
I was putting the engine back together, and was working on the intake/exhaust manifold gasket mating surface, and discovered this, crack in the exhaust port.I would like to know if it is repairable or replace? .I just want to use temporarily, to get the engine started. I can't afford a new one at the moment
what are your opinions?.( IMO I can repair this) ..if engine runs, and runs as it should, then I will invest in a new intake/exhaust manifold
0301141436_zps32615b2f.jpg

0301141436a_zpsa2aafbce.jpg
 
If it is only temporary then grind the crack down in the shape of a V until solid material is left.
Get some J&B weld and mix it. There are two types, instant and 24 hour cure. Use the 24 hour cure.

Once filled and hard file/sand down and give it a shot.....It may out last the motor.......

I don't think this is a water issue but could cause poor running. Intake/vacuum type leak.

Water is NOT present in the motor exhaust. the water mixes with the exhaust at the elbow......
 
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