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engine swap help!!!

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dimitrimfogal

Regular Contributor
hello gents , installing the 305 chev into my 68 sea ray heres the trouble... it slips easily onto the coupler and slides in about 1 1/2 " and then stops about 3/4 short of home. ive pryed pushed clamped twisted and wiggled but cant get it to seat. i read once that you can put it into gear and twist the prop but this is an electric shift and that doesnt work. i even had the wife rock the engine back and forth and looked at the ball gears and they turm when she wiggles . what do i do? please help. thanx in advance...dimitri
 
is this the boat where the Buick came out?

you'll have to review where all the mismatched parts came from.

there were different couplers and intermediate shafts.

are you sure they even have the same number of splines?

you are in territory none of us have been in mixing and matching Chevy and Buick parts from different vintages.
 
thanx for reply hystat, im using the same coupler from the buick so the splines are a perfect match. do the intermediate shafts differ in length from the different models? thats the only thing i can think of because the engine slides on a good 1 1/2 " before it stops and when it does it hits with a thud. perhps the stringer 800 '78 has a shorter intermediate than the '67 electric shift? the starter was rubbing on the bell housing so i removed it . i thought for sure thats what it was but it had no affect itstill stops in the same place...im stumped
 
dimitrimfogal said:
do the intermediate shafts differ in length from the different models?
Click to expand...

pretty sure there was one that Ford V8's used -had different part number than the shaft in a Chevy intermediate. not sure if length was different- can check the part number on your shaft and see what unit it is from at shop.evinrude.com

not every engine's crankshaft flange will be the same distance from the end of the engine block, so almost have to be different lengths
 
ok ive removed the outdrive and the ball gear/shaft assy . the engine went right in like gravy. then i tried to reinstall the shaft and gear and as i had earlier concluded the shaft is too long by an inch +or- you can see that it pushes in all the way to the end of the splines . this is same as where it was sticking / stopping earlier. so here are my new questions. 1) will a 78 800 stringer ball gear and shaft fit on the 67 electric intermediate? 2) do i need to install an 800 stringer intermediate housing?
3) will the 67 electric drive bolt onto the 78 intermediate? 4) am i a complete idiot as i feel like i am? answers to any and all are apreciated . studied alot but didnt see this coming , thanx in advance ... dimitri
 
you are in territory none of us have been in mixing and matching Chevy and Buick parts from different vintages.
 
yeah not sure what to do at this point hystat . at this point im in too deep to quit. i mean i know this boat aint worth squat however ive come a long way and put a few bucks and a lot of hours in the beating sun . still not ready to give up.
 
You need to check all the measurements to figure out what is stopping the fitting.

I have found that there are two lengths of Intermediate Shafts. Maybe it is a difference between 4/6/V6 drives and V8 Drives.

Bruce.

PS. You sound like me - Never give up.
 
no part # on shaft or ball gear unless its underneath the bearings wich are still currently on the shaft. im debating wether i should just get a 800 stringer or if i can just swap out the shafts. not sure yet, i need to do some more research . wich is what should have done in the first place or i wouldnt be in this mess . you see i havent been able to find anyone whose done this before, most ive talked to have warned me to steer clear of this project but im too stubborn. thanx for your help guys...dimitri
 
Theres a guy out there bye you who i bought stuff from. Ebay is where you will find him do a search for " omc " in the parts.

Then for 100-300 you will get the right intermediate. See what you want to do can't be done, (i think ).

I have been reading this thread over and over. Then i went to this site.

crowley marine

The site goes back the farthest i can find on the net.

And after about a hour i gave up. I had a page full off numbers wrote down, going nuts trying to figure with the info you have been giving how to make one shaft go in what intermediate.

F--k that it ain't gonna work.

You need the intermediate, shaft and coupler to be the same year, came off the same boat.

What we are also MISSING is the converter housing also known as the " bell housing " in the boat behind the motor that connects the intermediate and the motor.

I think i remember HAH what a bad sentence this is that the bell was ether longer or shorter way back then before 70'. See why i think i said i think i remember, can't remember which way it was. Is after all 40 years ago and i saw it on lake George.
 
haha thats funny chief , im not laughing at but rather with you , see ive been searching , reading , and trying to find out for two days now and your right, it cant be done. i need the 800 intermediate and shaft assy. to answer your question the bell housing is from 78 stringer and it is shallower in depth than the 67. and what i just learned 10 min ago that the shaft on the 67 has three bolt pattern to install ..the stringer has four. im gonna buy a 800 intermediate amd ball gear assy and hope the electric drive will fit...if not ill buy the 800 drive. with any luck ill get her on the water by late september as i dont have a money tree and im goin broke on this barge as it is.thanks for your help chief , sorry i wasted you and everyone elses time on my hoopty boat...dimitri
 
dimitrimfogal said:
im gonna buy a 800 intermediate amd ball gear assy and hope the electric drive will fit...
Click to expand...

won't necessarily solve your issue... you could end up with an 800 intermediate from a Ford V8 and you'd be in the same pickle...

I suspect you have a Ford shaft, and if you get some varsol and a brush, you'll be able to read the part number on it.

didn't your 1967 intermediate use straight roller bearings? I thought the tapered roller intermediate was later... like 1968 or 69
 
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thanx for the heads up on the ford shaft thing hystat that surely would have been my next malfunction . ill pay close attention to that before purchase. the current shaft was used with the buick that i yanked out of this heap . would it be crazy to have my wifes cousin cut an inch out of the center of the shaft and weld it back together? that was my wifes suggestion she said " like they do on orange county choppers".. i told her she was nuts but now she got me thinking crazy chit too lol. gonna post pic of shaft later when cameras done chargin
 
dimitrimfogal said:
would it be crazy to have my wifes cousin cut an inch out of the center of the shaft and weld it back together?
Click to expand...


a machine shop might be better equipped. would have to make a collar, make a shoulder on the cut and weld the shaft and collar 4 places, and probably true the shaft afterwards...
 
dimitrimfogal said:
the current shaft was used with the buick that i yanked out of this heap . would it be crazy to have my wifes cousin cut an inch out of the center of the shaft and weld it back together? that was my wifes suggestion she said " like they do on orange county choppers".. i told her she was nuts but now she got me thinking crazy chit too lol. gonna post pic of shaft later when cameras done chargin
Click to expand...
Course it would. But, nothing is impossible, but it would cost more in the end to cut and shut it. But, would be safer to re-spline the end, and re heat-treat it.

And, I love pictures.

I have investigated installing the later shaft that uses the "Bolt-on" Ball Gear, and it is possible by matching bearings, creating a spacer to space the Coupler rearwards, and end up with a thicker stronger unit.

Bruce.
 
thanx for the input gents , heres what i did today. i pulled the engine back out (weee)and put the 800 stringer coupler on, and reinstalled the engine.so slicing and dicing the old shaft is not gonna happen . i need to get the ball gear and intermediate shaft assembly from a stringer 800 drive (chevy ) and go from there . now i may be able to score the whole intermediate housing with ball gear and shaft for about the same price as buying them seperately . we shall see. now bruce i am new at this could you elaborate on your investigation " I have investigated installing the later shaft that uses the "Bolt-on" Ball Gear, and it is possible by matching bearings, creating a spacer to space the Coupler rearwards, and end up with a thicker stronger unit." do you mean get the 800 shaft and put the electric shift bearings on it? i know im a numbskull..thanx for your help...dimitri
 
Maybe not cause of the space the coupler takes up will stop the flywheel from moving. it will be touching the bell housing.

Heres a fast one i had to replace my motor why is for another thread. Anyway i used the bolts off the new motor to install the coupler / flywheel the new motor was a merc old motor was a omc.

Anyway the bell housing looked funny when installed but i was tired and it was a long day. Went to start the boat and the starter couldn't turn the motor.

After alot of cursing and yelling at the sky, my wife comes running out of the house thinking i went mad. You people have to understand i live on a quiet cul-de-sac with doctors and lawyers around me.

Anyway i pull the motor out and sure enough with the omc bolts on the merc motor the starter turned the motor after put all back together.

Reason the Chief just wrote all this chit is there is maybe 1/4 inch clearance between the bell housing and the coupler.

I wouldn't have believed it after eyeballing the setup, but sure as i'm writing this, and after having pulled my old motor out 3 times, and my new motor 3 times, there is the clearance of maybe 1/4 inch.

You for any reason move that coupler rearward you ain't gonna be able to turn the flywheel. There just isn't any room.
 
you are absolutely correct chief. the stringer bell housing has 1/4 " clearance while the 67 electric shift has about 3/4. at first i thought that was why the newer engine wouldnt fit ,but as it turns out , the coupler was stopping at the end of the splines on the shaft meaning for this jerry rigged junkpile im trying to build the shaft is to long . but it just occured to me that in theory i could re-spline the end of the shaft to make it go into the coupler further making it fit as there is room inside the flywheel . hmm. i think that may do it . thanx for your help gentlemen im gonna ponder this for a while and see . ill find a local machine shop and see if perhaps they could cut 3/4 off the end and re- spline.. of coarse if i were to need new ball gear and shaft in the future i would have to have the same thing done again but i think its actually possible. am i on to something here or am i way out in left field?...dimitri
 
Thanks for the reminder Chiefalen,

Mine had sufficient clearance for about a 3/4" spacer, but if it fouled, I would have found it for sure, and done something about it. Even if it meant modifying the internals of the Bellhousing.

Bruce.
 
I pondered that modification, and then i came to the conclusion that cutting a wider hole wasn't feasible. I thought installing washers to hold the bellhousing off the motor another 1/4 inch might be the solution. Surly i had the extra 1/4 inch to move the motor forward.

But then i came to the final thought, why not a double gasket ?

It was just all conjecture, i just pulled the motor again and changed out the bolts as it hung off the tree in the air.

Neighbors love that also. Same place i hang the deer, to skin em'.
 
I'm not real familiar with the stringer setup, but would it be possible to put a 3/4" spacer between the block and bellhousing? not sure how that price would compare to shortening the shaft, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Good luck!
 
i called about 10 machine shops today and out of all of them i found one guy willing to give it a whirl. i he wants to see it before he gives a quote wich i think is fair. taking it over friday afternoon . another machine shop referred me to a place that specializes in splineshafts and i spoke to one of the employees and he said they could do it but it would be hard . at this point my frustration level was about 9.5 . my thinking was of course its hard or i would have it done at the 76 station. any way to your spacer question dc cramer what would i use for a 3/4 spacer what with the shape of the bell housing and all?
 
It is easy to make up a spacer, if you have access to a Milling Machine, and the ability to operate it.

But, with a Stringer-Mount, the Engine Mounts are at the front on the motor, and at the rear, on the Bellhousing, so as well as using a Spacer, you need to move the Front Mounting points the same amount forward, which means either drilling new holes in the Stringers for the Mounts to bolt to, or fabricating new mounts between the original mountings and the Block.

Bruce.
 
gentleman , could you answer me this.. i found a company that makes a bellhousing spacer that would fit perfectly on my chevy 305 . the problem is it is not thick enough however two of them is the exact size i need. does anyone foresee a problem doubling up the spacers? plenty of room on this barge to move the engine forward. thanx in advance ....dimitri
 
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