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Oil leak from intake manifold

jeffsboat

Contributing Member
"I have an oil leak from the c

"I have an oil leak from the center of the intake manifold. The oil puddles up next to the carb. I have purchased the marine gasket set and believe that the problem is the small retangular metal plates that are assembled to the intake gasket. Can someone explain how these are installed. Is it obvious when I remove the old gasket. I am assuming they were not done correctly and that is why I have the leak.
Thanks,
Jeff"
 
"Many people leave those littl

"Many people leave those little plates out, but that results in an exhaust leak, not an oil leak. Still...

The photo shows how they go, and they are essential!

Jeff
284237.jpg
"
 
"G/day Jeff, coppied your oil

"G/day Jeff, coppied your oil extrector, great gadget hope it works down under and I dont have to turn it upside down. Keep up the magnificent work Regards Ossie"
 
"Jeff,
If those are exhaust p


"Jeff,
If those are exhaust ports then any idea why I have oil accumulating on the intake manifold just under the trottle linkage. I have already changed the valve cover gaskets. Could I have a leak from the intake gasket? The oil puddles when running under load and it always is in the same place under the carburator linkage right in the middle of the the valve cover where the carburator breather hose enters the valve cover. I have a 1979 318 engine in a Penn Yan boat.
Thanks,
Jeff
284296.jpg
picture of engine
 
Yes it is oil. I believe it m

Yes it is oil. I believe it may have started after I swapped carburetors from engine to engine and the one of the carbs didn't have the PCV vent port drilled open. It may have caused internal pressure that caused a gasket leak. I forgot that I found this issue last year while swapping parts trying to fix a poorly running engine.
 
"The photo shows INTAKE gasket

"The photo shows INTAKE gaskets and, without a PCV system you are sure to see oil pooling somewhere on the intake manifold.

Jeff"
 
"I was out for the shakedown c

"I was out for the shakedown cruise tonight and it looks like I have the exactly the same issue as Jeff L. The oil on the dipstick is clean and clear, but I'm getting dirty brown oil seeping from around the intake manifold exhaust crossover under load. The PCV valve rattles, but my next step is to take it out and clean it. What are the odds that tightening down on the intake manifold bolts will solve this, or should I just go ahead and order the gaskets? It's been long enough since I did the rebuild that I don't recall if I can get the manifold off without pulling the valve covers, If I change the intake gaskets, will I need valve cover gaskets too?

Fastjeff, in your photos of the metal gasket insert above, should it be obvious which side faces the manifold and which side faces the head? It's great to have you here, providing reliable advice to us amateur mechanics. I hope that you & your family are well!"
 
"..."The PCV valve rattles

"..."The PCV valve rattles, but my next step is to take it out and clean it."

Better still, replace it. Cheap. Take to NAPA and they'll match it up.

..."What are the odds that tightening down on the intake manifold bolts will solve this?"

Zero. Replace the gaskets. Not a hard job on a Mopar, but be SURE you drain the block, risers and manifolds BEFORE removing the intake!

..."I don't recall if I can get the manifold ..."off without pulling the valve covers."

It does, and the distributor does not need to be touched. Take that, Chevy lovers!

..."Fastjeff, in your photos of the metal gasket insert above, should it be obvious which side faces the manifold and which side faces the head?"

Doesn't matter. Honest. Just be sure to put a dollop of silicone in the four corners, where the end strips and gaskets meet.

.."It's great to have you here, providing reliable advice to us amateur mechanics. I hope that you & your family are well!"

Glad to be of assistance, and thanks!

Jeff"
 
"Jeff, Can you clarify where

"Jeff, Can you clarify where you mean by > put a dollop of silicone in the four corners, where the end strips and gaskets meet. Are the end strips the gaskets for the front and back ends of the manifold?

Thanks for the advice, especially on draining the coolant down. I wouldn't have thought of that. Another small disaster averted...

Chuck"
 
"The hole (in the motor be

"The hole (in the motor below) that you are closing up with the manifold has four sides. The gaskets take care of two, and rubber sealing strips take care of the other two. You need to put silicone on the junction of the gaskets--in four corners--to prevent a leak here. And after all you've been through, no leaks are allowed, right?

Jeff

PS: On draining the coolant first, guess how I learned to do that!"
 
"Jeff you speak with the voice

"Jeff you speak with the voice of experience. We are lucky to have you here...

My coolant drain in the block is just a pipe plug. Since I'm going to drain down the block, I was thinking about ordering a petcock to replace the existing drain plug. Is that a reliable solution, or just asking for trouble? Do you know what size the pipe thread is for the block coolant drain? (I would like to order it and I won't be able to get out to the boat for a couple of days to measure it.)

Do I need to remove the drain plugs at both the front and rear of the exaust manifolds to drain them down or is just the rear one (which is lower) sufficient?

Since I have a FWC, does the exaust elbow really need to be drained before removing the intake manifold? My understanding is that the raw water in the riser and elbow is isolated from the engine, and threfore shouldn't touch the intake manifold. It's not a big deal, more of a curiosity.

Thanks again!
Chuck"
 
"Just the manifolds (2 plu

"Just the manifolds (2 plugs) and the block (2 plugs, one on each side). With FWC, a petcock makes sense. With a RWC system, though, you need that big hole to allow the rust to get out.

Jeff"
 
"It took my 15 year old son an

"It took my 15 year old son and I about 3 hours to do the whole job. The intake can be removed without taking the valve covers off. The only problem I had was an air lock in the pump when I filled the system back up with coolant. I found that if you attach the thermostate housing at the end then you can pre-fill the pump directly through the thermostate housing. Also, I bought marine gaskets. The old gaskets were Dodge 318 truck gaskets and not half as thick as the marine ones.
Best of luck,
Jeff L."
 
"To clarify about the metal pl

"To clarify about the metal plates. They come connected as a pair. You bend them until they disconnect and then place one on either side of the gasket and hit the tabs down to hold them together as shown on "the other Jeff's" photo. So you will have two sets of metal plates or four pieces total, two per side. Don't forget to follow the proper torque sequence on the intake bolts. I also found that a few of the bolts are a touch longer then the rest. Keep track when you remove them.
Jeff L."
 
My gasket kit (and drain v

My gasket kit (and drain valves for the block to replace the 1/4 NPT plugs) arrived yesterday. I plan to install tommorrow. The kit came with a flat round gasket with a 2 inch ID and 2.4 in. OD. Also with an O-ring about 2 in dia maybe 3/16's cross section. I'm not sure what those are for.

I'm hoping that one of the Jeff's will tell me or it will be obvious when the manifold comes off. Wish me luck!
 
"My first guess would be the d

"My first guess would be the distributor mounting. Even though you don't have to remove it, I could see including those in the kit. Can't think of anyting else round in the intake."
 
"Billy, you are 100% correct.

"Billy, you are 100% correct. The intake manifold kit included the O-ring and gasket for the distributor. I was quite a bit slower than Jeff L & Son. It took me over 6 hours on my own to drain the block and replace the intake manifold gaskets. I ran her about 3 hours today with no signs of leaks. That's the good news. The bad news is: The photo below shows why the leak developed, and I expect it will return. The gasket design is terrible. The metal insert is too large for the sealing surface , especially near the top left corner of the photo below, leaving less than 1/16 of an inch of sealed gasket surface where the exhaust passage from the cylinder head enters the intake manifold. The gasket only fits one way, and there is no way to reposition the flow restrictor to improve the seal. The section of the gasket directly above the restrictor is unsupported by the cylinder head and was so baked out from the hot exhaust gas passing nearby that it cracked out on both the port and starboard sides of the engine as soon as I touched it.

As to Jeff L.'s question, where does the oil that leaked on top of the manifold come from? That's note quite a complete story for me. In my case, the oil (oily water really) came from space around the exhaust port (which looks in the photo like an inverted letter U). This space seems to be a dead end which doesn't appear to be connected to either coolant or oil passages directly. I think it was included in the cylinder head casting to maintain a constant wall thickness around that area of the casting. (You can't leave a thick section of metal when fabricating a complex casting or it will distort or cause sink marks to form.) In fact there is a small gap where water can enter that inverted U space in the cylinder head just below the valve cover on either side of the carb. I think that if things are working properly, any small amount of moisture that gets in this opening will simply evaporate from the heat of the engine. The only way that I think oil could enter this space is from blow by in the exhaust when exhaust is leaking from the restrictor. I had a milky brown mix of water and oil in the space around the exhaust passage, which I cleaned up with paper towels before replacing the manifold. it wasn't a lot of oil, I absorbed it with a couple of paper towels when I first noticed it. I didn't have time to do a compression check this week, and she seems to be running well enough. Earlier in the spring, while cleaning the top of my engine I sprayed a hose momentarily around that area, which I'm pretty sure is how I got water in there. when I heated the engine up under load and exhaust mixed with the water in the U shaped gap, it bubbled out from where the top of this inverted U isn't sealed onto the top of the intake manifold looking foamy like contaminated oil. Any other theories out there?

I'm kind of pissed about the gasket design. It looks to me like the only reason for the bump at the top left corner of the restrictor which compromises the seal on this surface is so the two halves of the restrictor can be made from one stamping. the two parts of the stamping are joined together at the bump which you can see at the top left of the photo. This badly compromises the seal, leaving only the tiniest sliver of sealed gasket. If the bump to join the two parts of the stamping had been at the bottom of the exhaust port, where there is a lot more meat to the casting the seal would not be compromised like this.

285168.jpg


click for a higher res image
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3326/3605217911_c20d64548f_b.jpg"

and an overall view of the block & heads with the manifold removed.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2482/3606036746_f06ce9b34c_b.jpg"
Thanks again for you input and advice.

PS, when i went to install petcocks on the block drains, the Starboard side was fine, but I was unable to install the petcock on the port side because the butterfly handle of the petcock hits a nearby boss that is part of the engine mount. you can install the petcock, but you just can't close the valve. I simply put the pipe plug back on the port side of the engine.

Best"
 
"Jeff L wrote back to me via e

"Jeff L wrote back to me via email that the gasket set he bought from eBasicPower doesn't have the same tab issue on the restrictor shown in my photo. Here is a pic from their website.
285343.jpg
chysler 318 intake manifold gasket"">
It's not that easy to see in this small photo, but the restrictors are more rectangular without the bump that I mentioned as shown in FastJeff's photos above.

The price of the eBasicPower Gasket kit was also about $10 less than I paid for the Felpro Kit. Although the Felpro kit has nice blue silicone beads around all the ports, which aren't vissible in the picture of the eBasicPower set, they won't do much good if the restrictor leaks.

Looks like not all marine gaskets are NOT created equal. I'm curious if anyone else has experience with this issue.

I ran her about 3 hours Sunday with no sign of any leaks, and was rewarded for my effort with a 26 inch striped bass trolled up on a tube. I sent the fish back to grow up some more.
Best,
Chuck"
 
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