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Where did it go??

willow

willow

Regular Contributor
"Unwinterizing" the boat............. twin 1991 350 CID Crusaders

Port engine started and ran very well.

Starboard engine 'cranked' but would not fire

Checked for fuel...we have fuel and the water separator is clean and no trace of water

Carb shows fuel flow

No spark at the plugs

No spark from the coil

To be on the safe side......replaced Coil and Distributer Cap

Still no spark at coil or plugs

Where did the 'juice' go or why is it not at the coil???...

Where should I be going now???
 
Not sure if I have or not.(12V at the coil), I did not put a meter on it but intend to when I go back to the boat tomorrow...I am no mechanic...just basics.... so on the 350 (1991), where is the ignition module??

I gotta buy a manual.....but I also want to get wet in 7 days !!!:eek:
 
The crusader manual is very good to have, I also get as much out of the parts manual, mainly to identify the part visually, in addition to the part number. I can then search online for the best price when I have a part number. I purchased both from this website.
 
Your engine is around the same age as mine. I have the Prestolite ignition, module is under the rotor and held down with two screws. Two wires go to the coil.

Bob
 
Did you check the neutral safety (shift position?) switch on the transmission? It's caught more than a few in the past.

Or maybe not...yours is cranking.
 
Hello again everybody....

First...thanks for all the suggestions

As luck would have it my mechanic came down to the boat today and 'walked' me through checking the ignition module............and it is "kaput":(

I have included two photos of the module and I have a few questions.......

mod01.jpgmod02.jpg

The photo on the left is the bottom of the module and it has the following numbers on it.........047

The photo on the right is the top of the module and it has the following numbers/letters on it.........below the yellow dot....047 9K13
Raised numbers, running vertically,to the right of the yellow dot ...from bottom to top are 466
GM logo to left of yellow dot
Left attachment hole has +C below it and right attachment hole has GBRE below it

My questions.....

Do I need a specific MARINE ignition module or will a standard GM module work?

The engine is the starboard V-Drive motor...will that make any difference to the module selection ?


I want to ensure I purchase the correct module as we will be getting wet shortly and I don't want to :

--------------damage any electrical parts by buying the wrong part...and "No" I did not look at the module on the Port engine ...perhaps I should have...I will be back at the boat tomorrow.

To those that have already contributed...my thanks:eek:



 
Skooting around the INet and it seems that the part number every Crusader parts department has out there for the module is 18-5107-1.

Would that do the trick???
 
Be sure to clean where it will go and smear the special, heat conducting grease on before you screw her down.

Jeff
 
Thanks Jeff.......exactly what my mechanic said and I have the 'drill' for reinstallation now written down!!!.
 
Don:

That is a module for a Delco EST distributor. I think you will only find "one" version under a few different brands.
 
makomark said:
Don:

That is a module for a Delco EST distributor. I think you will only find "one" version under a few different brands.
Click to expand...

Thanks MM...I managed to find a Crusader Engine parts guy here and I should have the module tomorrow, and installed tomorrow afternoon.

My concern, and voiced by some of the guys in this area was the fact that an automobile module may NOT be suitable for a marine application. I don't know why cause it is a small block Chevy (GM) engine.

To be on the safe side I went with a module supplied by Crusader for that engine.


Naturally the "marine module" is undoubtedly more expensive than the "automobile module"....but...well you don't see too many Brinks trucks following a hearse:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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Don:

if you look you won't find much "info" on the www about these beasts. if there is a difference, it will be in the default advance curve 'programmed' into the module. Most all auto applications bypass this function and use the advance signal from the 'computer' - same for the newer marine engines. Based on what I have in the archive, the module will yield about 22 deg of timing advance.
 
Went down with the new module...wired it all up.......no fire :mad:

Going to swap parts with the working engine..........thinking maybe.... dizzy pick-up coil
 
do you have the troubleshooting procedure for the EST system?

The markings on the old module are likely to be the date code and supplier code indicating when and where it was made....one of those QA functions
 
No such luck Mark.... No trouble shooting procedures...all I know is that as a last resort it could be the pick-up coil. Hopefully the Mech and I can 'proof' out the problem tomorrow am.
 
here's the pickup check that i have:
remove connector from module. take DVM and measure resistance between a pickup coil lead (at module connector) and ground. should be infinite resistance (this is the check for short to ground). the other check is for continuity between both pickup coil leads - should be 600-900 ohm. if either condition is not met, renew the pickup.

If you have to swap the pickups, the distributor will have to be removed, the gear removed and then the shaft pulled.
 
Hello MM...again an update:)

Everything you have posted has been done and in a nutshell here is what was replaced...Dist Cap/ Rotor......Module...... Coil....Dist pick-up-coil was the last item.....

Put it all back together and "No Spark"

Very simply ......we found by swapping parts with the other engine and doing comparisons....I need not have bought any new parts.

We found the problem at the helm...

We disconnected the engine harness at a junction about 8 inches short of the ignition switch, did some wire jumping and found that when the key was turned we had 12V coming from the battery to the ignition switch but the moment we went to "crank' we lost about 4 to 4.5 volts going back to the engine with the end result of not enough power to bring up the coil. We also found that when the boat was built, the builders tapped off a few lines from the wire going from the ignition back to the engine when cranking. We followed a couple of the lines and found their connections on various parts of the instrument panel had come loose.

For me, the layman, the entire explanation was above my "pay-grade" but my mechanic ensured me that he can fix all the wiring, use solder instead of clamps, (apparently what the builder used), and we will have a serviceable system when he finishes the job Sunday afternoon.

Although I purchased electrical components that were not really required...I do have serviceable spares now and I was very relieved when my mechanic ensured me that the cables running in the raceway were fully serviceable and would not have to be replaced.

This was a very weird occurrence and 'normally' with "no spark" one would have felt sure that the problem was at the engine end, especially when it was proven that we had 12 V at the coill......but...as we later found out 12 V was not going back to the coil when we were in the 'crank' position.

I am sure that some of what I posted may be in error but based on what I was trying to glean from my mechanic.......we didn't have enough voltage going back to the ignition system when we went to the 'crank' position due to faulty wiring at the helm.

Hopefully my next posting will be my last and we will have a fully serviceable ignition sytem on that engine.
 
Finally.the last bloody word on this issue.....

We found the problem:D

The wire from the Starboard engine coil to the Starboard Tach had shorted out on the back of the tach.

It's over..it's fixed..we're going boating for 4 months !!!!

Have a nice summer......:cool:
 
Not Contributors....d'ya need any spare parts????????;)

I can pretty much rebuild a complete ignition system with all the parts I bought !!:p
 
sure could use some spares, Don, but all my stuff is Thunderbolt IV.

Keep them in your parts locker; one day they will come in handy.
 
Glad it's working. Just a comment/question. I have heard that solder is a no-no on boats, always use connectors. Wires get hot, melt solder and become disconnected. Any comments? Tim
 
bluedog2 said:
Glad it's working. Just a comment/question. I have heard that solder is a no-no on boats, always use connectors. Wires get hot, melt solder and become disconnected. Any comments? Tim
Click to expand...
According to what I learned, it is the vibration that can break soldered connections. Perhaps heat is a factor, but the show I watched only mentioned the vibrations.
 
Properly sized wires with clean connections won't get hot. If a wire gets hot, any connection to it will get stress, irregardless of how it is made.

A properly constructed "solder joint" will have a mechanical connection that doesn't rely on the solder. All wiring on a boat needs to be supported with vibration in mind.

Bottom line - no reason you can't make a soldered joint work just fine on a boat.
 
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