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Turn over winterized motors or not?

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bluedog2

Member
I have winterized my FWC engines for the next 3-4 months. I don't want to work on them while it's cold. But is it better to turn over the motors occasionaly or just leave then alone?
 
My two cents and a question or two:

Did you fog them?
By fogging, I mean dynamically introducing a fogging solution into the engine while it was making it's last few revolutions.
Carbureted V-8....... fog equally into each plane, or you will miss 4 cylinders.
TBI or MPI..... different story.
If you did properly fog them, then I'd not turn them over.
If you turn them over, you'll disrupt the protection, IMO.

However, there is another aspect.
Do you remove your sea water pump impellers?
If no.... them bumping the engine over places the three/four impeller vanes away from cam contact, extending the life of your impellers some.
(impellers left stationary within the pump housing causes the "set" to occur)
This works for either the Merc eccentrically positioned impeller pumps......, as well as "cam" pumps.

For me, part of winterizing is removing the impellers..... unless you plan to change them upon re-commissioning.

If belt driven, occasionally rotate the pump pulley by allowing the drive belt to slip.
Best to completely remove it, IMO.

That may sound rather anal, but it will extend the life of an impeller some, and may ward off a premature failure.

.
 
Rick, I gave up fogging a few years back after over-dosing an engine and fearing an oil-lock. Rotating the pump sounds good and is easy enough. The wives tale I had heard was that by sitting for awhile, a lifter would be compressed to the point that it may not easily pump back up and by bumping around you may compress a number of lifters thus making it very difficult to re-start in the spring. It seems my older 318's would do this and miss a cylinder or two for a few minutes after being re-started. May have just been my imagination. Thanks Tim
 
I don't like my hardware (springs, lifters, valves etc) sitting in the same position for that long. I bump mine over once a week. Gives me an excuse to go aboard and check batteries etc.
 
Tim, I don't think that I'm following you on the fogging oil lock! "Fogging" for me refers to the cylinder oiling process with the engine ruinning (dynamically) until we kill the ignition. If you are squirting oil into a cylinder, that's more along the lines of "Pickling".

As for your cam followers, they are nothing more than a small cylinder, hydraulic plunger within it and a check valve system.
The plunger is cushioned by "checked" oil pressure which normally requires only a cycle or two (with new oil pressure) for the plunger to be cushioned again.

Woodie, I hear you on that one.
Wouldn't it be great if somehow all spring pressure could be relaxed or neutralized when shut down?
 
Rick, Thanks for your response. Where I was getting into trouble on the "fogging" was when we were pouring the oil down the carb (about 8 oz.) and the engine quit rather suddenly. I was concerned that I put enough oil down into one cylinder to create some damage. That's when I gave up on the oiling and was thinking that bumping them over might be a better idea. I have been working on my engines for 40 years but I never under estimate my ability to cause more problems and I fix. Tim
 
bluedog2 said:
Rick, Thanks for your response. Where I was getting into trouble on the "fogging" was when we were pouring the oil down the carb (about 8 oz.) and the engine quit rather suddenly. I was concerned that I put enough oil down into one cylinder to create some damage. That's when I gave up on the oiling and was thinking that bumping them over might be a better idea. I have been working on my engines for 40 years but I never under estimate my ability to cause more problems and I fix.
Click to expand...
Tim, you are welcome.
Here's my take..... use what makes sense.... toss out what doesn't.


Fogging a carbureted engine is normally done by using the spray can fogging solution, but using oil by itself is not a deal breaker. I think that you're certainly on the right track by fogging.

However, there are few catches for this for engines that incorporate a split or dual plane intake manifold (V-8s for example).
The trick is in getting an equal amount into each plane so that all cylinders receive an equal amount of protection.
Ford, Chevy, Chrysler...... it doesn't really matter if the intake is dual plane.... of which most OEM are.

Here is an example of a SBC dual plane intake manifold showing the cylinder separation between upper/lower planes.
(this is an aluminum version, but the OEM cast iron manifold separation is similar, of not the same)
If we put this into prospective (regarding the two carburetor primary throttle bores), you can see how each is separated (4 cylinders only per plane).
attachment.php


If you were introducing more oil into one side only (one throttle bore), the oil would concentrate more so into only 4 cylinders, rather than all 8.
Perhaps this was your concern regarding hydro-locking that I believe you are eluding to...... Yes/No?




In this .GIF image, you can see how each cylinder takes in fuel/air (as per firing order) and how it alternates between planes.
If we miss one plane, we miss 4 cylinders.
Or if we introduce un-equally, we end up with unbalanced protection.


ae3.gif


Caution: crank and pistons are moving... so don't stick your finger into this image! :D


The other catch, and again, IMOO here.... is to kill the ignition source, rather than to allow the fogging solution to kill combustion.
(no sense in combusting the solution during the final few revolutions!)

Easy to do by having a helper simply hold 1,200 rpm or so as you fog equally into each plane.
Then without changing the throttle position, have them cut ignition power while you continue fogging until the rotating mass comes to a halt.

Well, at least in my book this seems logical to me! :D

Some will suggest that Fogging is a waist of time.
Each to his own I suppose.

Note and Disclaimer....... Do not "fog" TBI or MPI engines using the conventional carbureted engine fogging method.
See your OEM service manual for this.

.
 
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Rick,

You never fail to catch my attention. Great animation and I fully agree. I used to use oil taking out each plug and squirting two pumps of oil into the cylinder, turning the engine by hand. I have had great success in the last 5 years or so just fogging....it also takes a LOT LESS time. Not as impressive a cloud on startup in the spring but maybe thats a good thing :)
 
Thank you, Mr. Knuckle..... :D .... and you bring up another point.

V engines don't lend themselves very well to the "squirting oil into a cylinder protection", since the cylinder bores are not perpendicular to gravity.
Gravity will usually cause the oil to pool at the low point around the perimeter of the ring landing.
We only THINK that by squirting oil into the cylinder, and then by cranking her over, that we're washing the cylinder walls down with an equal covering of oil.
Not so! We're fighting gravity!

Vertical cylinder in-line engines, now that's a different story, but there's a potential catch here also.
That would be if dished pistons were used (oil pooling within the dish).... so that idea doesn't always work either.
Flat Top pistons.... perhaps OK!

Pretty darn hard to beat dynamic fogging, IMO.
 
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My dear departed race car buddy used to turn his race motor 90 degrees once a week all year long, but that motor has massive springs and camlift. The puny valve springs in a standard marine engine shouldn't be a problem, but the lifters are.

Here's the deal as I see it (and I go through this every spring): A lifter or two will be under pressure from an open vaqlve--no way to avoid it. That lifter will clack like crazy in the spring until it gets enough oil pressure to pump back up. Now, if you rotate the motor now and then, you will have MULTIPLE lifters in that condition at start up instead of just one or two.


Something to think aout.

Jeff
 
Jeff, those are all excellent points! Take heed everyone!

The only way to avoid any of this, would be to loosen each rocker arm when laying up the engine for the winter.

That, or install Crower hydraulic rocker arm studs or Comp Cams hydraulic push rods! :D :D
(studs retract to a pre-determined dimension.... push rods extend to a pre-determined length when running)
Just-Kidding-1.gif
 
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