2001 Honda bf225 not enough power to plane

[Winnercuddysport32189]

I have a 2001 Honda bf225. Took the boat out a month ago and it ran fine. Took it out today and am currently on the water now for the night flathead fishing. I put it in the water, and it cranked fine, no alarms, and is not idling rough at all. I can hammer down on the throttle and it starts excellerating fine but just don't have enough power to get on plane now. I put a spare prop on and still no change. I can run all day probably with the throttle all the way down and it runs fine, just not power. Could it just be a spark plug issue? Any suggestions to look at when I get home in the morning?

 

[jgmo]

There are several things that might cause loss of power but often it's the result of inadequate fuel flow. When were the fuel filters last replaced?

Poor quality fuel comes to mind. Have you gassed up anywhere recently that might not be top tier?
I'm pretty distrustful marina fuel, especially on lakes.

 

[jgmo]

Other causes might be a bad TPS or MAP sensor. Check the vacuum line that goes to MAP and make sure it's not come off.

Actually, check all vacuum lines for deterioration/cracking.

Yes, fouled plugs could effect power but will usually cause hard start and misfire.

Just generally look for anything out of place like, fuel leaking, unplugged electrical connectors or wires chafing.

Sorry, no magic bullet but others here might have some better ideas.

Good luck.

 

[Alan Hicks]

My bet-
The fuel system is able to supply only enough fuel to allow for the power you're getting from the motor now. Then, SOMETHING is likely preventing any more fuel to the motor. Could be a plugged filter, a collapsed fuel line, a fuel line sucking air (often seen as a small fuel leak), plugged fuel vent, etc.

 

[chawk_man]

To expand on what Alan wrote. A few quick basic things to check...

1. When running full throttle, have a buddy feel the primer bulb to see if it is partially collapsed. If so, clean out the vent to the fuel tank and consider removing the fuel pick-up tube from the tank and cleaning it up. If not collapsed, have the same buddy rapidly pump the primer bulb and see if that helps performance. If so, remove the cover over the big black grommet where the fuel line enters the engine compartment and see if there is any restriction in or around there. If no restrictions, test the low-pressure fuel pump.

2. Inspect the rest of the fuel line for kinks or restrictions.

3. When is the last time you changed the HP fuel filter? Those things will deteriorate over time and it is the cause of a high percentage of performance issues on the BF 225.

If none of that helps. Come back at us and we can walk you through some more tests.

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

Okay guys, back home now and have the motor on "the operating table". I didn't have anyone that could prime the bulb under power so I couldn't check that. Gas is from a trusted source and I did siphon a few gallons out to check for water and found none in the test sample. I ordered both the high and low filter while on the water last night as well as new spark plugs so I'll put new plugs and filters on when they arrive. I couldn't get one of the 2 screws off of the brass diaphragm to get to the high pressure filter so I just took the intake manifold cover off. I guess the one screw being stuck was a sign from above to dig deeper because when I took the cover off, the butterflies were stuck open (or closed) whichever it was...see video.

After a soak in pb blaster and working them back and forth, they now operate freely. Could this have been the issue??? The high pressure filter was very dark and dirty but I could blow through it fairly easy so it don't seem to be restricted. Going to replace it anyway though. I also hooked the motor to the hose first and while running, unplugged the sparkplug connectors one at a time to see if any of them was not firing. Each time I unplugged one, I could definitely tell a difference in how it was running so it seems like all is well with the plugs and getting fire to the cylinders. Will change plugs anyway and keep the old ones as spares. I checked all connections and fuses- all good. I checked for leaks in hoses- all good. Couldn't find any soft spots or kinks in any of the lines. I guess until the filters and plugs get here, I'm at a stand still unless there are any other suggestions to look at. I'm an hour from the lake and only have weekends to take it. We have a family trip coming up the 17th of June for a week at the beach that is tailored around having the boat so family vacation will be pretty lousy without it. So, as many things as I can try at once is a must to be sure I get this problem resolved before then. Again, motor cranks no problem, no alarms, no spitting, no sputtering and no hesitation at idle or under load. Quick forward and reverse response upon acceleration. It just don't have enough power to get on plane and go

 

[chawk_man]

First of all, replace those Philips-head screws with SS hex head bolts. You'll be glad you did.

I've had the same problem with my IAB, but couldn't get mine lose enough, so had to replace it. Checking the IAB should be part of regular maintenance. Attached is a write-up of my saga and what I found. However, a stuck IAB should not prevent you from getting on plane, but it could. How much does your rig weigh fully loaded? BTW - the IAB baffles change position at 3950 RPM.

When reinstalling the IAB, check the IAB diaphragm as describe in the attached write-up and check the vacuum line from the IAB actuator to the IAB diaphragm to make sure it is fully connected and no holes in the tube. Low or loss vacuum can cause performance problems.

If you have an external fuel/water separator (which you should have), change that filter too. They do get clogged up. If you can't get your hands on a replacement filter quick enough, at least drain the canister.

You should also drain the VST. Water and gunk can accumulate there, too, and degrade performance.

When you pull the plugs, inspect them carefully. The firing ends should be the color of light milk chocolate. If all are sooty, suspect the HO2 sensor. If only one or two are sooty, suspect a misfiring plug or failing coil on those cylinders. Note: Often a plug will not fail until under high pressure.

Keep us posted on what you find.

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

First of all, replace those Philips-head screws with SS hex head bolts. You'll be glad you did.

I've had the same problem with my IAB, but couldn't get mine lose enough, so had to replace it. Checking the IAB should be part of regular maintenance. Attached is a write-up of my saga and what I found. However, a stuck IAB should not prevent you from getting on plane, but it could. How much does your rig weigh fully loaded? BTW - the IAB baffles change position at 3950 RPM.

When reinstalling the IAB, check the IAB diaphragm as describe in the attached write-up and check the vacuum line from the IAB actuator to the IAB diaphragm to make sure it is fully connected and no holes in the tube. Low or loss vacuum can cause performance problems.

If you have an external fuel/water separator (which you should have), change that filter too. They do get clogged up. If you can't get your hands on a replacement filter quick enough, at least drain the canister.

You should also drain the VST. Water and gunk can accumulate there, too, and degrade performance.

When you pull the plugs, inspect them carefully. The firing ends should be the color of light milk chocolate. If all are sooty, suspect the HO2 sensor. If only one or two are sooty, suspect a misfiring plug or failing coil on those cylinders. Note: Often a plug will not fail until under high pressure.

Keep us posted on what you find.

Thanks for the write up! I'm going to replace those screws as suggested as well. Boat is a 1987 winner cuddy sport 2280. It weighs around 5800 pounds. That is boat, motor, 2 batteries,100 gallons of fuel, fishing gear, 3 men, etc. IAB diaphragm operates as it should, and hose is in good shape. I do have an external fuel water separator and have just replaced that filter about a month ago. I drained the VST about 10 minutes ago and found no trash or water in it. I didn't pull the plugs yet because the new plugs are not here yet. HOWEVER... Back story, at the beginning of each year for the last 3 years, I take the boat for a test run to make sure all is well for the season. Boat usually sits on the trailer from October to March. So 5 months. Usually it seems like it has problems with power the first trip out. So I order new spark plugs and install them. After that, boat runs like a top all year long. NOW, for the last 3 years it has done this, the bottom left plug had oil on the ignition coil. I cleaned the oil off of it and out of it's home really good and put a new plug in. Everything was all good the rest of the year. So today, even though I didn't pull the plugs yet, I decided to see if there was oil on any of the ignition coils. Low and behold, that bottom left coil and tube it sits in had oil on and in it. I also got the low and high pressure filters in today. I pulled them and replaced. I blew through each of them to see the resistance difference. With the same amount of force blown through each, I could easily tell that the old one had a restricted flow of close to 70% of that of the new one. Low pressure filter looked just fine but replaced anyway. While I'm diving in to everything I'm going to change the oil and filter as well as gear oil. I'll update later this week when I get the rest done and take it to the lake after work unless there are any other suggestions to try/look at before then.

 

[chawk_man]

That all sounds good. The HP fuel filter seems to be at the root of many performance problems on these 225's.

The oil leak around #6 plug is usually caused by a compromised seal around the hole in the valve cover. See part #4 at

https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda/outboard/225hp/bf225ak0-la-vin-bagj-1500001-to-bagj-1599999/cylinder-head-cover.

The very best thing you can do for these engines is to run them often. The USCG regularly puts 6000 hours or more on these 225's, but they run them almost daily. Over the winter, I'll crank up my motor about every month and let it run at various rpm levels for 30 minutes or more. That keeps me from having any problems when it's time to go fishing. However, my boat is stored on a lift, so that is easy to do. But you can use a large trash can, sitting on the right number of pallets to get the right height, filled with fresh water with a running hose in it to keep the water cool and refreshed.

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

Okay. Update: Just took the boat to the lake after changing plugs, both fuel filters, oil and oil filter, gear oil, checked compression on all cylinders, (all good) checked vacuum hoses, and fuel lines. All of the above was good or replaced. No change. Still no power to get up and go. See video. I even buried the throttle and went to the back of the boat and pumped the primer bulb. No change. As I killed the motor and drifted around racking my brain as to what the problem could possibly be, I thought about something. Keep in mind of everything checked and replaced. Last year, I hit something offshore and dinged one of the blades on my prop. That prop was an aluminum 3 blade 42x15. Prop ran fine but got a new one anyway. I replaced it with a 4 blade aluminum 44x16. Now, boat has a 100 gallon tank. Since the new prop went on, the boat has been ran a few times but it has been almost empty every time. (15-20 gallons in it) the issue arose when I filled it up and loaded it down. I'm wondering now if it's a prop issue.... So, I drove an hour home and put the old prop back on that I knew worked great and am on the way back to the lake to see if I'm a complete idiot. Any other suggestions in the meantime would be great. Will update when I get it back on the water in an hour

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

Update: no change. I'm officially at a loss. Completely clueless with nowhere else to turn at this point

 

[chawk_man]

44x16?????? 44 what? Typically, the prop is identified in inches and you cannot put a 44" diameter prop on a BF 225. So, a typical prop for a Honda BF 225 would be a diameter of between 14" and 16" and a pitch of between 15" to 17". My BF 225 on a 6000 lb C-Hawk runs a 14.5" by 15" prop.

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

44x16?????? 44 what? Typically, the prop is identified in inches and you cannot put a 44" diameter prop on a BF 225. So, a typical prop for a Honda BF 225 would be a diameter of between 14" and 16" and a pitch of between 15" to 17". My BF 225 on a 6000 lb C-Hawk runs a 14.5" by 15" prop.

That's the only numbers that were on the prop. I can't remember the pitch for it. The prop I know runs well is 14.25x15 or 14.5x15. Regardless, the prop was not the issue. I have had nothing but problems out of this honda since day one. Motor has less than 500 hours. I'm about ready to say fu#$ honda and repower.

 

[Alan Hicks]

When the motor is wide open and not making full power, is the motor surging or running rough, or does it seem smooth? Steady tach?


And I wouldn't be too hard on it because it's a Honda. All of these injected motors run great - until they don't.

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

When the motor is wide open and not making full power, is the motor surging or running rough, or does it seem smooth? Steady tach?


And I wouldn't be too hard on it because it's a Honda. All of these injected motors run great - until they don't.

When the motor is at full throttle and not making full power, it is running as smooth as it did when it came off the showroom floor. No spitting, no sputtering, no nothing. It just sounds and runs as smooth as you could ask for. Just without the power. Before I could hit 38mph WOT. Now it REALLY struggles to hit 16-18 mph. That's running with the wind trimmed all the way up and 2-3 minutes full throttle to get there.

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

When the motor is wide open and not making full power, is the motor surging or running rough, or does it seem smooth? Steady tach?


And I wouldn't be too hard on it because it's a Honda. All of these injected motors run great - until they don't.

It ran like a top last time I took it out in mid April. Parked it, put it in the water 2 weekends ago and now it's doing this. No warnings, no acting up or nothing. It just went from being great to shit over night. The ABSOLUTE ONLY thing that changed was that, it has been almost empty the previous few times out that it ran perfect but the time I filled the tank up, and put it in the water. It was immediately screwed. It went from perfect all day one day, then the next, as soon as I got out of the no wake zone at the ramp from putting the boat in, it had no power

 

[Alan Hicks]

This may seem silly to ask, but have you checked it for error codes?

 

[chawk_man]

Looking at the film clip you posted, it seems that the engine was running fine, BUT it looks like the motor is far too low in the water. When the boat is still in the water, the anti-cavitation plate should be even with the lowest point on the transom, plus 1 inch higher for each foot of offset from the transom. When on plane, the anti-cavitation plate should be riding right at the surface of the water as it is coming off the transom.

When you are WOT, what rpm's are you reading?

One other off-the-wall idea, and don't get mad about me asking, but have you checked your bilge? Any possibility of a lot of water in there? Bilge pumps do fail.

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

Looking at the film clip you posted, it seems that the engine was running fine, BUT it looks like the motor is far too low in the water. When the boat is still in the water, the anti-cavitation plate should be even with the lowest point on the transom, plus 1 inch higher for each foot of offset from the transom. When on plane, the anti-cavitation plate should be riding right at the surface of the water as it is coming off the transom.

When you are WOT, what rpm's are you reading?

One other off-the-wall idea, and don't get mad about me asking, but have you checked your bilge? Any possibility of a lot of water in there? Bilge pumps do fail.

The motor does sit low. The anti-cavitation plate is in the correct place when on plane and I have measured it to make sure everything is right while on the trailer. If I raise it up any higher, it will be to high. Rpm's are around 3600 at WOT right now. Before this started out of the blue it was running at 6000 WOT. Not going to get mad at all because when I got it off the trailer and out of the no wake zone and hammered down, I though I forgot to put the plug in and filled it up with water because it wouldn't go. It stays bone dry. I'm telling you, I have never seen anything like it. I'm going to ohm the injectors today and see if they are reading good, going to change out the primer bulb even though I really don't think that's it, but I'm willing to try ANYTHING at this point. Also thinking maybe the gas tank vent could be clogged so when I take it out for another test, I'm going to try unscrewing the gas cap and see if that fixes it. Last ditch effort if it's not solved before we leave for the beach is replacing the high and low fuel pumps, injectors, and O2 sensors.

I really appreciate yall taking the time to help. It really means a lot guys. Thank yall again. It's getting personal with this thing now and my pride will not let me let this go until it gets resolved!

 

[chawk_man]

Only 3600 RPM and no missing or hesitation! No alarms! To me, it sounds like you are just not getting enough fuel to the cylinders. Yes, open up the filler cap to make sure you are not dealing with a plugged vent. BUT, if you had a clogged fuel tank vent, or a clogged pick-up inside the fuel tank, you likely would have also had a partially collapsed primer bulb at WOT, and you said that you checked that.

At this point, I think it would also be a good idea to change out the primer bulb. There is a check valve in there that can fail and restrict the fuel feed. Also, remove the cover where the fuel line feeds into the engine compartment and covers that big black grommet that the fuel line feeds through. It is not unusual for crude to build up in there and restrict the fuel line. Many BF 225 owners have reported that problem.

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

Only 3600 RPM and no missing or hesitation! No alarms! To me, it sounds like you are just not getting enough fuel to the cylinders. Yes, open up the filler cap to make sure you are not dealing with a plugged vent. BUT, if you had a clogged fuel tank vent, or a clogged pick-up inside the fuel tank, you likely would have also had a partially collapsed primer bulb at WOT, and you said that you checked that.

At this point, I think it would also be a good idea to change out the primer bulb. There is a check valve in there that can fail and restrict the fuel feed. Also, remove the cover where the fuel line feeds into the engine compartment and covers that big black grommet that the fuel line feeds through. It is not unusual for crude to build up in there and restrict the fuel line. Many BF 225 owners have reported that problem.

That's what I said! WTF is going on!?!?!?!
I may have found the culprit about 10 minutes ago. What do you think the odds are this is it???
So, I had my wife get on the boat as I stood on the ground at the back of the motor so I could listen to see if I could hear the fuel pump kick on when she turned the switch on. I also put my hand on it to see if I could feel it come on incase I couldn't hear it. As soon as she turned the key I could easily hear it and my fingers got cold and wet... I had her turn the switch off and turn it on again. I could see gas coming out of the high pressure fuel filter housing. (See picture) maybe the filter was the problem to begin with as max speed before the change was 10-12mph. After the filter changes I could get to 18-20mph. Maybe I cracked it when installing the new filter and fixed the initial fuel flow/pressure problem and created a new fuel flow/pressure problem which could be why there has been no change after fixing the other stuff. FML

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

Here is the picture.

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

Is #27 on the vst parts diagram on boats.net the correct part? Just want to make sure before I order it.

 

[chawk_man]

That's a new one on me - cracked cover to the HP fuel filter. Yes, part #27 seems to be the right one. You may also want to order another O ring - part # 18. Those things are easy to mess up.

Now, the question is why did it crack? Possibly you did not screw down the cover evenly. Once you get some resistance on each of the hold down screws, you should then tighten to spec 1/2 to 1/4 of a turn (depending on resistance) alternating between each.

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

That's a new one on me - cracked cover to the HP fuel filter. Yes, part #27 seems to be the right one. You may also want to order another O ring - part # 18. Those things are easy to mess up.

Now, the question is why did it crack? Possibly you did not screw down the cover evenly. Once you get some resistance on each of the hold down screws, you should then tighten to spec 1/2 to 1/4 of a turn (depending on resistance) alternating between each.

I'll keep that in mind when it gets here and I get it replaced. Have you seen where a fuel leak this small caused drastic power loss? I'm cautiously optimistic this is the problem now but just can't see how that amount of leakage could cut my horsepower in half it seems

 

[Alan Hicks]

I'll keep that in mind when it gets here and I get it replaced. Have you seen where a fuel leak this small caused drastic power loss? I'm cautiously optimistic this is the problem now but just can't see how that amount of leakage could cut my horsepower in half it seems

No experience with this bigger stuff, but I think that's a pretty reasonable question.

Another thought I had, for whatever that's worth, is the potential for the high pressure pump trying to crap out on you. It might be worth your trouble to have a look at that......

Collapsed fuel lines another possibility....

 

[chawk_man]

Pure speculation on my part, but I would assume that the cracked HP filter cover did not allow sufficient pressure to the fuel pressure regulator, which in turn did not allow sufficient fuel to the injector tubes, or at least some of them.

Once that cover is replaced, you should check the fuel pressure. You need a fuel pressure gauge with a 6mm adaptor screwed into the pressure relief bolt on the cover of the HP fuel filter cover (the one you are replacing.) Disconnect the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator and clamp it or plug it. Warm up the engine and at idle, fuel pressure should be between 41 and 48 PSI at idle - 600 RPM +/- 50.

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

Pure speculation on my part, but I would assume that the cracked HP filter cover did not allow sufficient pressure to the fuel pressure regulator, which in turn did not allow sufficient fuel to the injector tubes, or at least some of them.

Once that cover is replaced, you should check the fuel pressure. You need a fuel pressure gauge with a 6mm adaptor screwed into the pressure relief bolt on the cover of the HP fuel filter cover (the one you are replacing.) Disconnect the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator and clamp it or plug it. Warm up the engine and at idle, fuel pressure should be between 41 and 48 PSI at idle - 600 RPM +/- 50.

as soon as the part comes in and gets replaced, i will do as suggested. While im in to this, do you by chance know how to test the coils with a meter to make sure they are working properly? i have seen videos on how to do it but the coil packs on my honda look completely different than videos i have seen and the way the videos showed would not work on the honda. My curiosity is peaked as i had to replace the #6 coil last year which had oil on it then. it had some oil on it this time as well so now im also wondering if that could be an issue as well. With all your help, i feel like i need to send you a check once i (we) get this figured out!

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

as soon as the part comes in and gets replaced, i will do as suggested. While im in to this, do you by chance know how to test the coils with a meter to make sure they are working properly? i have seen videos on how to do it but the coil packs on my honda look completely different than videos i have seen and the way the videos showed would not work on the honda. My curiosity is peaked as i had to replace the #6 coil last year which had oil on it then. it had some oil on it this time as well so now im also wondering if that could be an issue as well. With all your help, i feel like i need to send you a check once i (we) get this figured out!

nevermind. i forgot i had already checked and was in fact getting spark on all cylinders.

 

[Winnercuddysport32189]

Update: got the part I cracked in, installed it and no change. I hooked up a brand new fuel line to a pony tank and ran it with fresh e-free 93 so that cuts out a problem from the fuel tank to the motor. So, in retrospect, I have:
1) Installed new fuel lines
2) replaced low pressure filter and O-ring
3) replaced high pressure fuel filter and O-ring
4) replaced primer bulb
5) checked compression (good)
6) changed spark plugs
7) made sure I'm getting spark on all cylinders
8) replaced coil packs
9) checked that all fuses and relays were good
10) ruled out gas tank vent tube and gas tank pickup tube being clogged by using pony tank

What the actual FU$%!!!
Aside from replacing the high and low fuel pumps, and screen inside high pressure pump (which could be clogged) the entire fuel system will be new and still have gotten nowhere. Is there something not fuel related it could be???? Again, ran like a champ mid April all day. Loaded it up on the trailer and parked it. A month later, drove it to the lake, put it in the water, started up no problem, idled out of the no wake zone no problem, hammered down on the throttle and it won't go. Full throttle gets me about 12 mph give or take. No spitting, no sputtering, no vibrations, no surging, no alarms. Just no power to get up and go. I am on the lake now running some seafoam through it. Been full throttle for for 20 minutes going only 12 mph and I believe it will run like this all freaking day and never act up or throw an alarm. It just is powerless. Like I'm running a 90hp rather than a 225.