Palmer engine source

Author Message   Dave Laidlaw Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 01:06 pm:    I am looking for a source for Palmer marine gas engines, preferably in the Pacific northwest of the USA or Canada, any help would be Much appreciated. Thanks in advance, Dave   Andrew Menkart (Andrew) Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 01:15 pm:    Dave, Palmer Brothers made engines from before 1900 though to the 1960's. What are you looking for? An engine or parts? The early engines are generally owned by collectors. Some of the later engines were based on Wisconsin, Ford, and International Harvester blocks. There is no one "source" for Palmer engines or parts, but if you can detirmine what you are looking for, it might be possible to find it. The classified section here on the site has some Palmer engines for sale and wanted. You could check there and post your own ad. If you are interested in information on the pre-1940 engines you could check OldMarineEngine.com. They have some Palmer manual reprints for sale too. Regards, Andrew   David Laidlaw Posted on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 10:46 am:    Andrew, I did not realize the "range" of engines made and possibly available. I thought that they were all single cylinder gas engines off approx 6/8 hp. Which oddly enough is what i want, preferably with a forward/reverse gearbox. Hope this clarifies my request. Thank you, Dave Laidlaw   Andrew Menkart (Andrew) Posted on Friday, March 30, 2001 - 11:34 am:    Dave, Okay... that narrows down the type of engine, but it still covers a range in history from about 1895 to 1965. The early Palmer engines were single cylinder two cycle, low horsepower. Models B, C, and D were popular make'n'break ignition engines. The early engines did not have a reverse gear but could run either direction. By the early twenties Palmer produced a small four cycle engine called the YT which stood for Yacht Tender. They made a single cylinder and a two cylinder, but most were single. Some had a reverse gear. Some of the YT's have survived in the possesion of collectors. The engine produced after about 1950 that probably best fits your description are the BH-25 and the PW-27. The BH-25 puts out 6HP at 2500 rpm. While the PW-27 is 8HP at 2800 rpm. The PW-27 is based on a Wisconsin block. Both could be bought with a reverse gear, and most were sold that way. I have a PW-27 in a 16' Sea Bright Skiff. On another site we sell some Palmer catalogs and manual reprints that were reprinted by Dick Day, with his addtional historical and restoration information. You also could check the classifieds for Palmer to see engines and parts listed for sale and wanted. You could post your own wanted ad if you know what model you are looking for. Here is some other Palmer information and photos. Regards, Andrew   David Laidlaw Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2001 - 06:27 pm:    Andrew, many thanks,It looks like a YT, or probably better a BH-25, or Pw-27 that would fit my needs,Now all I have to do is find one reasonably close to my home here in southern British Columbia Once again Thanks, Dave   Andrew Menkart (Andrew) Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2001 - 06:47 pm:    Dave, Glad that helped... You will have an easier time finding a PW-27 or a BH-25, than you will finding a YT. The YT's are more "collectable". Regards, Andrew   Phil Spencer Posted on Saturday, June 30, 2001 - 12:03 am:    I am looking for an original style water pump for a Palmer P-60 marine engine. The entire assembly is missing from the engine on my 1970 Columbia sailboat. I would appreciate any guidance. Phil Spencer   Richard A. Day Jr. Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 10:53 pm:    Phil, Can you tell me the serial number of the P-60 and better still email me a photograph of the pump drive housing that you need a pump for? The P-60 started out as the M-60 in 1955 and there were a few changes over the years in the "trim" such as starter, generator/alternator, pumps etc. I probably can find you the correct pump bu first I need to know a little about the exact engine. All the parts for the engine itself are IHC CUB tractor and the only unique parts for the engine are the flywheel and the crankshaft. The pump is a "trim" Part If the engine needs to be rebuilt save the crankshaft as it was made by IHC for Palmer with provision to join up to the OXKB Paragon transmission. All the IHC bearing inserts etc. are standard Cub tractor but don't talk Palmer to the IHC dealer he will think you are nuts. The tractor crankshaft will not, repeat will not work in the marine engine. I hope you have the engine and manifold fresh water cooled because it is almost impossible to find a replacement exhaust manifold. If it is salt water cooled don't let it dry out out it will crack!!!! Any used Cub tractor block can be used to replace the engine block by useing the the marine crankshaft.   Brendan Montano Posted on Thursday, July 12, 2001 - 12:18 am:    Hi Richard, My name is Brendan, and I have an M-60 which has water getting into the oil at a rate of approx. one inch per hour of running. The motor runs very well in spite of it. m I have rebuilt the water pump gaskets, and am presently trying to pressure test the cooling(raw salt water) system in the block to see if it is a problem.. I saw your commens re: exhaust manifold and wondered if that could be the water source, but wouldn't the engine start hard or run poorly if water was coming in through the exhaust manifold?? any advice would be appreciated,   Richard A. Day Jr Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 02:11 pm:    Brendan, Don't put too much water presuure on the block and exhaust manifold I suggest not more than 10-15 pounds. I doubt there is any easy way for that much water to be getting into the crankcase from a cracked exhaust manifold. The most like effect of a cracked exhaust manifold would be hard starting, water on the spark plugs, steam in the exhaust and piston hydraulic lock up if too much water drained into the top of the cylinder. Pull all plugs, crank the engine and see if you get a geyser out of one or more of the cylinders. I would be more suspicious of the seal on the Sherwood water pump if that is the model water pump your P-60 is equiped with. The very early M-60 water pump was a gear pump but the pump drive shaft gland was outside the crankcase so if it leaked it went in the bilge not the crankcase. The later P-60 Jabsco pump had a similar outside gland that could not leak into the crankcase. The late P-60s had a Sherwood pump with the seal inside the crankcase area so leakage would go into the crankcase. I would look for rust through around the oil filter and the cankcase and or in the valve spring area. Let me know how you make out and I will try to help further.   Gil Plumb Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2001 - 09:23 pm:    Phil, Here is a drawing of the OEM water pump for the P-60. I can duplicate it to make a pump that will fit on your engine. Give me a call if you are interested at 860-767-7351. Regards, Gil   Richard Day Posted on Friday, August 03, 2001 - 09:36 pm:    Gil, That drawing is for the Sherwood Brass Co. pump. Do you happen to have a drawing of the M-60 gear pump? Regards Dick   Renee P. Joffrion Posted on Friday, October 19, 2001 - 07:34 pm:    I have a 1960 Palmer PW-27 engine. The outer water jacket on the cylinder is craked, as well as the stem on the exhaust valve. Andrew Menkart informs me that the only source for another cylinder is another old engine. If anyone out there has a cylinder or another PW-27 with a good cylinder for sale please contact me.   Paul Heath Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 01:42 pm:    I have a Palmer Engine in my newly acquired fishing boat. The boat is a 1924 Monterey Clipper, and I am guessing the motor is from the 40s. I don't know the model number however. It is a four cylinder, with what looks like a brass water pump, and a zenith updraft carb. Where do I look on the motor to figure out what model it is ?   Andrew (Andrew) Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 05:55 pm:    Paul, It is probably a PALMER INTERNATIONAL, an International block that Palmer marinized. I assume that there is no nameplate on it... Palmers usually had a nameplate with a model number and serial number. Do you know the displacement? If not you could post a picture of it and we can probably identify it for you. Regards, Andrew   Paul Heath Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 06:16 pm:    Thanks Andrew, I don't know the displacement. There are some numbers on the head casting that I will jot down when I am up there tonight. I will also get a photo of the engine up here soon. Paul   Paul Heath Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 03:41 pm:    That worked well...   Richard Day Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:21 pm:    I cannot make out enough detail to figure what model Palmer this might be. It would seem to me it has to be more of the Hercules vintage or the LLH series. I would like to see a shot with the hatch open but not too dark to make out the outline of the engine. I don't think Palmer started on IHC engines until the mid 1950s. Will have to research that a little more. Can you get me more photos pls.   paul heath Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 12:46 pm:    Richard. Thanks. I will take some more shots this evening.   Andrew (Andrew) Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 01:44 pm:    Paul, I showed the photos to my friend Gil Plumb, and he say it is a Hercules block, probably a Palmer PH134 (the PH stood for Palmer Hercules, and the 134 is the cubic inch displacement). That engine was based on the Hercules IXB block. You can confirm this by looking for the stamped Hercules model number in the location shown below (just above the water pump), it should be IXB. Maybe Dick Day can confirm or correct this info. Regards, Andrew   Richard Day Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 07:56 pm:    Gil, is correct. It is a Hercules block but I am having trouble with is it ZX or IX series and is it first, second, third type. I have not been able to locate my PH 134 catalogs at the moment and the Hercules handbook I have located is dated Reprint July,1949. The only PH 134 NOS parts I have is a set of piston rings. Will keep on this and see what I come up with.   Richard Day Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 10:02 am:    PH-45,AKA PH-143 is Hercules block IXB-5 Don't know if 5 stands for TYPE 5 I will try to send a copy of the 1653 brochure to you for display.   Richard Day Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 10:13 am:    Andrew I could not send the first image as it was 49 kbites. I wanted to send four images from the 1953 dated brochure. Don't know how to get the images any smaller. Sorry I messed up your program.   Richard Day Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 10:18 am:    Boy I realy messed it up. PH-45 AKA PH 134 is Hercules block IXB-5. Don't know if 5 stands for Type 5. I am trying to send 4 photos of the 1953 Palmer Engine Co. brochure dated 1953. Need to figure out how to reduce the size of the photos.   Richard Day Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 11:13 am:    PH-45, AKA PH-134 photos of brochure dated 1953. I cannot send one of the 4 because if I reduce the detail it becomes meaningless. I will be glad to mail a zerox if some one gives me an address.   Richard Day Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 11:26 am:    Paul, I give up!! I got all of the photos under 40 and the page comes back and says the file is too big. Not the brightest in my age group and my grandaughter isn't around to save my butt. Send me a mailing address and I will mail you a copy.   Paul Heath Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 01:15 pm:    Richard, Thanks for the help. You can send photos to prheath@us.ibm.com if you like. I have some better ones that I took last night. I can send you full resolution off line if you like.   Andrew (Andrew) Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 06:26 pm:    Here are Dick catalog images of the Palmer PH-45, AKA PH-134 photos of brochure dated 1953:   Paul Heath Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 07:41 pm:    Wow - that's very cool. Looks just like it. Can someone tell me if there is a temperature regulation mechanism on these motors ? I don't seem to find a thermostat. The motor runs reasonably cool - like below 140 - and it seems to me like it would rather run a little warmer.   Andrew (Andrew) Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 08:43 pm:    Paul, Please send me an email directly by clicking the word. The email address you left me is not correct and mail got returned to me. Thanks. Regards, Andrew   tom mcquarrie Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 10:05 pm:    need to know if there is a remanufactured carb for a palmer p-60 1973 vintage columbia sloop engine   Curt Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 04:01 pm:    I've been following the discussion between Brendan, Richard, and Gil on M60/P60 water pumps. The seals and bearings on my Sherwood E20 are shot and I've bought the replacements. My pump appears to be the same one shown in Gil's Palmer drawing. The drawing shows snap rings on between bearings and on the forward end of the forward bearing. Before I go any further, what is the best way to press the shaft and bearings before I start?

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