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Message |
    
Stringer Bell
Member
Username: stringer_bell
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 01:39 pm: | 
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Hello. I am running a dive charter boat, 26ft John Allmand (1981) with TAMD40A.
Rated HP is 145. Target RPM is 3600.
Playing with the props, trying to find the correct setup.
First tried Michigan left rotation 082021 15x19
- Alone on the boat, full 70gal fuel
3750rpm / 25mph
- 4 passengers, 4 tanks, weights/gear/ice/water, full 70gal fuel (all this is 2/3 of full boat load)
3000rpm / 14mph
Have spare "elephant ear" Michigan 082073 to try, not sure of the pitch on it, 16" diameter....anyone heard of this prop?
Going to try to find 15x17 prop....any other suggestions? Thanks in advance
PS I also have Bennett trim tabs |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3401
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 08:05 pm: |
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Is it a TAMD =straight shaft (inboard)
or
An AQAD, 280/290 Aq drive? |
Stringer Bell
Member
Username: stringer_bell
Post Number: 16
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 08:26 pm: |
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Its the 280 drive I/O
After some checking, the spare prop I have is elephant ear 15x19L as well...just visually different shape.
Looks like 16x15L elephant ear might work? I dont care about top speed, but want to be able to get boat to plane quickly when fully loaded |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3403
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 09:08 pm: |
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The engine is rated at 3600 rpm, and exceeding that might not be too good.
However in Your case with quite a difference in empty and loaded, I would have let it almost up to 3800 empty, but not been running at that rpm!
Give the Volvo Wide Blade 16 x 15 or 16 x 17 a test. Left or right depends if Your boat is listing to any side when running. Normally RH props are used. To switch drive rotation, simply move the vertical rod behind the rear cover on the drive to the other side.
Don't forget to test with the tilt-pin in different locations! |
Stringer Bell
Member
Username: stringer_bell
Post Number: 17
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 09:27 pm: |
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Thanks for your help Morten, you always have great advice 
Dive boat is going to be heavily loaded most of the time with about 1600 lbs (between 6 divers and 12 tanks / ice / drinks....and fuel tank is 70 gal on top of that).
16 x 15 sounds like it will work. If not will try 16 x 17. My boat lists to the right somewhat, i think thats because there is more fiberglass for the helm, and drivers seat is there, and all the steering and stuff is on the right side. I know how to change the rotation, might try it.
I have the 280 tilt system with long threaded rod and motor, i dont remember seeing the pin down there when i reinstalled the drive after rebuild?? All i remember is reverse lock linkage. Should I raise the drive during testing, to try and get optimum performance? Or should I keep drive against transom (locked) and use trim tabs?
Thanks again
PS My mechanic told me this particular older engine is not that sensitive to subtle over-revving, and I had to test the 15x19 prop with empty boat so it only got to 3750rpm for a very short time. |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3404
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 09:46 pm: |
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The tilt pin is the rod that the reverse lock hooks on to. Normally it is set in the middle pos, but You might try it in the inner one. Just tilt the drive, un-screw one of the plastic nuts, move the pin to the inner hole. Double check that the reverse lock works after moving the pin. Never use the drive lift as 'trim', not even for testing!
One more question:
You state rated HP 145. Normally it should be 165, unless You have a commercial rated engine?
AqD40 = 136, AqAD40 = 165.
If listing to Stb, I would have opted for a RH prop. |
Stringer Bell
Member
Username: stringer_bell
Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 09:57 pm: |
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I was told
TAMD40A = 145
TAMD40B = 165
There is AQAD40A written on the boat behind the instrument panel, but the engine doesn't have any identification marks. Based on older style wire harness box on the motor, and some specific wiring, my mechanic thinks we have 145hp to work with....he is 35 years Penta dealer, and brilliant. Its an old boat, motor was rebuilt in 1995, but all wired wrong and with my mechanics help now runs like a dream, all warning systems work, all gauges work as well. I have wet exhaust out thru transom and raw water pickup thru grate in the hull, instead of pickup/exhaust at the drive.
I wish motor has 165, how can I check to find out for sure?
I can post pics on here if it would help identify.
Thanks for the tilt pin procedure explanation! |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3405
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 10:39 pm: |
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The different HP is a bit confusing.
Originally the TAMD 40 was rated 158HP. The reason simply that the output was measured at the prop shaft flange of the gearbox. The equivalent AqAD 40 is 165, but at flywheel. Why?
The AQAD40 came in 3 packages, engine, transom mount and drive. The engine was 'classified' as the power unit. The TAMD came in one box, with reverse gear mounted and had to be measured as 'one unit'. Engine power however is the same.
With through-transom exhaust You gain about 5 HP compared through the drive!
However all the A40(A=intercooler/aftercooler) engines are 165 at fly-wheel rating, unless down rated as commercial with 3200 continuous rpm.You may run across following names:
TAMD40BT - Bob tail, no drive or gear box. Mainly used in jet app's and generators.
TAMD40 = Engine with reverse gear mounted, normally MS3
AqAD 40 = Engine delivered with drive
They all give about 165 on flywheel. |
Stringer Bell
Member
Username: stringer_bell
Post Number: 19
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 02:40 am: |
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Thanks, that makes alot of sense....my motor seems to have good power....I can get all this to work having ~170 flywheel hp.
Right hand prop sounds perfect, I will get 16 x 15 R and try.
THANKS MORTEN!!!!  |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3409
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 03:06 am: |
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My guess 25 knots light boat, 3600++RPM.
18 knots 'loaded', 3400+RPM.
Will be waiting for the result. |
Stringer Bell
Member
Username: stringer_bell
Post Number: 20
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 10:55 pm: |
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Ordered prop (new/alu/Michigan) 16x15R for $95 
It will be here Thursday, will post results
THANKS AGAIN |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3416
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, April 05, 2009 - 11:12 pm: |
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I'm not quite familiar with the Michigan version of the 16". The beauty of the Volvo Original 16" is their blade area. |
Stringer Bell
Member
Username: stringer_bell
Post Number: 21
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 04:02 pm: |
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I am hoping Michigan prop is exact same as Volvo, will post photos when I get it.
For comparison, here is the photo of Michigan 16 x 17 L that I will also buy as a spare...
 |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3421
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 07:44 pm: |
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I'm sorry, but if that is the 16" version it has about 50% of the Volvo blade area!! If You find a Volvo 16", You will see what I mean. |
Stringer Bell
Member
Username: stringer_bell
Post Number: 22
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 09:45 pm: |
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After looking at Michigan "Match" catalog, they look to be exact copies of Volvo prop....with large blade area....thus the name
Hopefully its the same thing....I will post pics on Thursday when it gets here. |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3424
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 06, 2009 - 11:18 pm: |
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Sorry, but no.
That is 'copy' of the Volvo 15 x17 HS Short hub versions, just with long hub. Blade areas more or less suitable for the Volvo 4-cyls!
Props are a jungle!
Have a look at this link:
http://www.tacomapropeller.com/255039/products/16-X-13-RH-3-Blade-AL-Long-Hub-Vo lvo-Propeller.html
If You were to take the pick from same angle as Michigan, You would only see 'Black' and hardly daylight between blades.
The Volvo 16" dia is designed specially for diesel engines, the Michigans are some sort of compromise.
In Your case You need to maximize the blade area. This gives the possibility of reducing the pitch and slip, which again will minimize speed reduction when pulling down to cruising RPM. Something like paddling with the blade or the shaft of a paddle!
Just get an original Volvo 16" and test! You will be surprised about the difference , not only in performance but even economy! |
Stringer Bell
Member
Username: stringer_bell
Post Number: 23
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 09:03 pm: |
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Finally got it in the mail, Michigan Match prop 16x15R..... looks HUGE 
I will install it tomorrow and try.... thanks again for all your help and suggestions Morten |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3461
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 09:16 pm: |
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Looking forward to the test results. It looks a bit more like the original Volvo than the other picks. |
Stringer Bell
Member
Username: stringer_bell
Post Number: 24
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 07:18 pm: |
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Phew, back from the testing session, here is the skinny:
For this test I used 16x15L prop - same blade design as the white photo few posts above (smaller blades area than Volvo).
Loaded the boat with ~ 2100 lbs:
270 qt cooler filled with water (+70 lb cooler weight dry)
150 qt cooler filled with water (+40 lb cooler weight dry)
160 qt cooler filled with water (+30 lb cooler weight dry)
= approx 1400 lbs total for the above
2 x 200 lb persons
= 400 lbs
10 dive tanks approx 35lbs each
= 350 lbs
and about 50 gal fuel, which I am not counting as added weight
I got 3600 rpm and 16 mph
Then I drained 270 qt cooler and shaved about 550 lbs (load weight then dropped to approx 1500 lbs). This Icey-Tek cooler was located in the transom area, and was definitely overkill
I got 3750 rpm and 19 mph, and got up on the plane much easier and quicker.
My operating weight will be about 1800 lbs, I think with trim tabs working and with correct Volvo 16x15L big blade prop I will be able to run without problems. The black Michigan prop I posted photo of is Standard rotation, and my mechanic told me to stick with Counter since shaft is already used to Counter fatigue and can snap easily if rotation is switched. I got to stick with Counter because if I break it, I gotta go back to him to fix it  
PS My trim tabs were not working (something power supply related, I will fix it tonight).
Morten, how does all this sound? THANKS!!!!  |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3473
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 08:59 pm: |
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So far interesting. I have never run across a broken prop shaft on the AQ drives. If the splines are straight (no sign of twists), I would give it a try. Changing prop shaft is anyway not a big operation, and You might gain further on the rpm and speed! So far You seem to be on the positive side of my predictions. |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3474
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 09:03 pm: |
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There is another 'technical' aspect. By running RH prop You run with less stress on the upper gear housing parts. Se another tread about 'Noisy 280 drive'. |
Stringer Bell
Member
Username: stringer_bell
Post Number: 25
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 09:20 pm: |
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Should I try Volvo 16x17L next?
Or try actual Volvo 16x15 (L or R)?
I have a medium weight dive trip (~1100 lbs) coming up on Saturday.
Fixing trim tabs tomorrow....they will help a lot |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3475
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 09:33 pm: |
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Try the Michigan 16 x 15 R on the photo. (the black one) |
Stringer Bell
Member
Username: stringer_bell
Post Number: 28
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 11:36 am: |
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Yesterday was my first paying charter! 
I had a full boat, 6 divers, 12 tanks, about 150lbs of lead weights, full tank of fuel.
Used new 16x15L OEM Volvo prop (huge blades).
Got 3600rpm and just over 18mph (fully loaded).
Got 3800rpm and 24mph (empty boat with only myself and full tank of fuel).
I cruised ~13mph fully loaded @ 3200rpm. Using trim tabs I was able to get on the plane. I had to keep the tabs fully down for the whole ride. |
Stringer Bell
Member
Username: stringer_bell
Post Number: 29
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 09:04 pm: |
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Forgot to mention:
Loaded coolant temp @ full throttle: 195F
Empty coolant temp @ full throttle: 175F |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3574
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 03, 2009 - 09:50 pm: |
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Does not seem to be too far off my predictions.
Still would like to see a test with RH prop?
Which pin-hole did You have the drive tilt pin in? |
Mike
Member
Username: mrmahi
Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 02:45 am: |
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Sorry to drop in on this, but I have a question concerning props and RH/LH rotation. I have a heavy (6000 lbs) 24 foot GlasPly, that gets very unpredictable going downsea. I have found the 16x15 LH prop is a little too much..the 16x17 LH seems to hold the rpms down and still not load the motor. The rear of the boat is heavy as I have added a 25hp kicker, fuel cell, and a swimstep.
Would a RH prop be a bad choice, as I am having a problem with going into reverse...it bangs loudly? I have checked the shift linkage and other things and have concluded it is the nut on the top gear shaft having too much clearance at .026" The specs are between 004 and .020. I was wondering if the copper washer inside the outdrive gears will have an effect on that? The reason I ask is that it has a crack in it, but is still in tact. This ths the copper washer that is pressed (I think) inside the gears. There is no part # for it, so I think it is part of the unit. Everything else looks good inside the drive..gear pattern etc. I am going to get a proper size nut and see if I can make up the slop. Any advise would be appreciated.
Aloha,
MIke |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 4206
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 09, 2009 - 02:54 am: |
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Mike:
Could you please start a mew thread on this one? |
