| Author |
Message |
    
roy davies
Visitor
| | Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 12:43 am: | 
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what do i have to do to get my p-200 paragon trans ready and will i need new prop? |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 4237
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 09:23 pm: |
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Don't run it hard until you fill it properly--which is HOT at the FULL mark on the stick. Be down a couple of cups and it'll slip on you.
Jeff |
roy davies
Visitor
| | Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 03:23 am: |
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im more or less talking about switch the trans from reverse rotation to standard rotation. putting new 350 into 251 cc catalina |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 4241
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 05:39 pm: |
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Okay. The oil pump (in the front) has to be switched over. There's arrows to show which way it should go for the rotation chosen.
Jeff |
roy davies
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 12:31 am: |
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thanx jeff i guess i'll also need a new prop? what about the packing? reverse as well? i noticed the nut tightens same as old rotation of shaft? can wire tie nut but reversing packing might ball up when tightening? starters taken care of! |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 4242
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 09:44 pm: |
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The locknut needs to be tightened to keep that from happening. On one side it would merely loosen up, but on the other side it could seize the shaft.
What's this about needing a new prop?
Jeff |
roy davies
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 11:36 pm: |
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in the 78 chris craft catalin single screw the engine s were reverse rotation when you go to standard the motor reverses,reverse the trans the prop should still turn the same way! but i was told by a few people that the shaft even with oil pump indexed will turn in direction of crankshaft rotation on a paragon(unsure). i know new trans with standard rotation engine can be switched to achieve either rotation! is that also true of the paragon p-200? on my catalina there is no lock nut only a wire tie system for securing nut from rotating! also if shaft does turn opposite direction sould i reverse the direction on how i lay in the packing? |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 4258
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 07:30 am: |
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I'm getting a headache! Leave it to Chris to make an already confusing issue much worse with their assbackwards Chevy motor nonsense.
Too confused to help you, sorry.
Jeff |
roy davies
Visitor
| | Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 03:13 am: |
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well thanx anyhow it's a weird science for sure |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 4266
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 07:12 am: |
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You bet. Even Einstein would throw up his hands!
Jeff |
Lee Bradshaw
Member
Username: lbradsha
Post Number: 18
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 11:28 am: |
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Well,
Lets see if I get this right.
You have a boat, which had (pass tense) an engine.
Your switching the engine and want the transmission to reverse its normal rotation to fit your new engine?
It's not a crazy idea, but....
Unless your can do most of the work and can take your time to shop for the parts the cost of the change over will out weigh the cost of the redoing the engine right.
The real question is "Why"? What is it that prompts the desire to change? |
dogsharks38
Member
Username: dogsharks38
Post Number: 77
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 12:15 pm: |
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Hi guys, I've just read through this torturous thread and I want to help. I hesitate to keep dropping links to other locations, and I do it when I think it will HELP someone. That's what I'm in if for anyway, to help. Therefore, this link is excellent in understanding the firing order, the difference between RH and LH, why, what happens with a flywheel forward installation when that flywheel is actually installed on the FRONT of a motor, etc. Hope this helps everyone.
It starts off with a cam question, and then it gets into some very good info about how these marine motors are designated, especially with that oddball Chris Craft Q series that has the flywheel mounted on the front of the motor, making it look like it is turned around backwards.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/message/1207109479 |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 4268
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 10:13 am: |
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Just read through all those posts. Hillarious! Nobody really is sure which end is up (ah, forward!)
Jeff |
dogsharks38
Member
Username: dogsharks38
Post Number: 78
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 05, 2008 - 02:41 pm: |
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The rotation issue is pretty clear in my mind, you can call it whatever you want until you get to the machine shop and then you better darn well know. In a twin engine config, you "always" have a RH prop rotation on the right side of the boat (starboard) and a LH rotation on the left side (Port).
The concept of using the flywheel side of the motor to make the determination is dangerous when you get to the Chris Craft "flywheel forward" motors.
I have two SBC marine motors and four big block Ford 427s. Of the two small Chevy motors, one (in my 1956 17' Chris Sportsman) is a flywheel forward installation, but the motor is actually turned around backwards with the front of the motor bolted to the transmission. This is a standard LH automotive rotation but the prop is a RH rotation. Take this motor in for a rebuild and tell them it's an opposite hand motor and you'll have a real mess. The other SBC is flywheel aft and it also has a RH prop rotation, and it is a true opposite rotation motor in every sense of the word.
Now get to the SBC motors Chris Craft called the "Q" designation, those are mounted with the motor facing forward just like a car, but the flywheel is actually bolted to the front of the motor. This is something I, personally, was really not aware of until recently, and I thought the posting I referenced would help someone like me understand this better. Anyone looking at the flywheel on one of those motors and trying to figure out the rotation is going to be in trouble, right? Reason: the port Q motor on a twin flywheel forward installation, is going to be a true RH opposite rotation motor, and looking at the flywheel it will suggest (to the uninformed) that it is a LH motor because it's spinning left when viewing the motor from the flywheel.
You got it! Darn confusing! I'm still at a loss, as are many, why in the heck some of this was done.
Anyway, this is a great forum here, a great reference, I have referenced numerous people here and it's worth it's weight in gold bullion.
Regards,
Paul |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 4275
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 08:49 am: |
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Paul:
Einstein would have trouble figuring those Q motors out!
Jeff |
dogsharks38
Member
Username: dogsharks38
Post Number: 79
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2008 - 02:35 pm: |
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You are correct !
One nice thing about the Q, compared to my favorite SBC, the 327F, the Q series has the flywheel removed from the back and placed on the front of the motor, where it won't scoop up bilge water and spray it all over the motor compartment. I experienced this water spray during a recent shakedown cruise of a freshly restored boat. I didn't realize where the water was getting in, we got a little slosh in the bilge, and thankfully I was able to drive the boat home. Everything got wet. When I realized it was spraying all over the place, I gave it a little gas and put the nose in the air, sending the water to the back where the bilge pump could work on it. Had the boat had a Q motor, there would have been no water spray. :-)
Sometimes I think engineers make things complicated just because they can. In this case it made some sense. Why they didn't just turn the motor around backwards to achieve the same thing is beyond me, and perhaps beyond Enistein too?
Regards,
Paul |
roy davies
Visitor
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2008 - 05:08 pm: |
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the motor faces forward ,flywheel is on back of motor the crankshaft actually turns backward compared to a standard engine(car) this also had a reverse rotation camshaft to allow motor to turn backward driven by a gear drive instead of a timing chain these motors were used by chriscraft in the 70's why? nobody knows?main thing is do the tranny's work when spinning opposite direction on the input side? |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 4285
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 01:03 pm: |
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German proverb: "The goal of every German engineer is to make seven parts do the job of one!"
Must of been a few Germans working at Chris!
Jeff |
dogsharks38
Member
Username: dogsharks38
Post Number: 81
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 07:41 pm: |
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Owning three vintage Porsche wasserpumpers, vintage in this case being early 80 through 90, I couldn't agree more. You get to take half the car apart to reach anything that needs to really be fixed, and then........speaking exclamatory German and having a bucket full of specialty tools and $400 worth of tech manuals really helps.
Fortunately, there may have been less English engineers at CC than Germans. As some of us have learned with experience, the Brits seemed to have had some sort of national problem putting two pieces of metal together in a manner that contained oil, and in some cases, water, lol.
Regards,
Paul |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 4295
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 07:26 am: |
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..."As some of us have learned with experience, the Brits seemed to have had some sort of national problem putting two pieces of metal together in a manner that contained oil, and in some cases, water, lol."
Right on! Hence the little pans below the motors of brand new British motorcycles in showrooms!
Jeff |
Todd Moore
Member
Username: concritter
Post Number: 96
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 08:35 pm: |
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Just curious....did the props come out the pointy front end of the boat?hahahah.Can't say bow,as that might actually be the stern.hahaha..Todd |
Thomas Eells
Member
Username: scandalousiii
Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 10:18 pm: |
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WOW!!! I thought I had problems!!!!
WHEW!!!! |
mitch allen
New member
Username: reattic
Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 11:30 pm: |
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Just purchase a marine engine with the same rotation as your existing drivetrain. What? Why ya'll lookin at me like that? |
Mark Weller
Member
Username: mhweller
Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 01:48 pm: |
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You all got it wrong the Q motor is literally turned around and the power is taken from the snout of the motor the flywheel wasnt moved. The Q isnt that hard to figure out it just takes some time and effort. Any questions fire away I know em backwards and forwards hah! Oh and by the way they did this for vertical clearance issues. |
