| Author |
Message |
    
Drew Robertson
New member
Username: andante
Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 07:13 pm: | 
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I have a 1992 Carver 350 Aft Cabin with twin 454s and have been considering the addition of fuel flow computers. Any advice on specific brands, pros or cons, etc. would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Drew |
danny
Member
Username: lugnutdan
Post Number: 42
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 07:41 pm: |
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I have 1996 trojan express,twin 502 xl,I to have been thinking aqbout some fuel meters.
and would also appreciate,any comments. |
luke galant
Member
Username: idyltimelg
Post Number: 12
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 07:48 pm: |
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Floscans are good. I had one installed on my 34 Silverton, and found it very helpful in making decisions on speed and time vs economy, as well as being able to tell when the carb secondaries opened up so I could back off just a little. I used the older 5000 series that required installation of a toggle switch to go back and forth between the engines to monitor them one at a time (though the fuel use totalizer was cumulative for both engines). On my current boat, I am looking at the Floscan "Twinscan" that shows both engines at the same time. They're a little pricier, but seem more functional. If you have a lower station on the 350, installation would be simplified. Unfortunately, my 3807 only has an upper station, so running wires will be more problematic. |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1883
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 08:12 pm: |
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Floscan here - 5500 - I don't mind the toggle switches.
Lowrance and a few others mmake them now, too. Haven't tried them but have heard they are reliable and accurate.
Shop around and find one that fits your instrumment panel and one you can read. they all have a quirk so reading the manual off the www site would beb prudent, too. |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 7137
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 02:39 am: |
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They will pay for themselves in a season. Trust me on this! Great diagnostic tool as well,
Jeff |
Drew Robertson
Member
Username: andante
Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 12:24 pm: |
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Thanks for everyone's input- I think the Twinscan may be my best option, will follow up on this down the road. |
RR
Member
Username: round4
Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 01:50 pm: |
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If you have none of the newer Garmin chartplotters, 2007 and later, you can get a kit from Garmin that will allow you to install their flow sensors to work on the chartplotter. Less expensive than the floscans/twinscans and no need to cut more holes in your helm.
RR |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 820
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 05:04 pm: |
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That would be the Garmin GFS 10 fuel sensors and they are TERRIFIC. I use them in conjunction with their 4212 chartplotter and the details on fuel coupled with the gps and speed data are computed for you and displayed either on a dashboard layout screen or in tandem on the bottom of any other chart combination you select... WE really really love it and use it. When you fill up you can simply select add fuel and either a fill or "X" amount of gallons. Additionally , they can be set up with Garmins independant 4 or 5" displays. |
John Rattray
Member
Username: silv360oz
Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 05:53 pm: |
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For those thinking of using the Garmin system beware of an important Caveat.
If you have a boat with a return fuel line back to tank the garmin won't work. As it only reads fuel flowing in one direction.
On Friday we just ordered from Flo-Scan our system to go into our Silverton 360 Express Cruises with twin 454's and a Garmin 2K backbone. When it's in and running (around Christmas) I'll let you guys know our feelings.
Weather warming up over here over here, most days around 95F with some reaching 104F - humidity not yet increasing, that's something to look forward to in January/February |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1885
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 07:36 pm: |
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Most of the return system hookups require an extra sender in the return line, for each engine. That gets hooked up to the controller and generates pulses that "subtract" from the main line's sender which "add". without it, there's no way for the "fuel computer" to know what the engine is consuming. Not hooking up that extra sender will show the pump rate, not the fuel consumption. |
Al Felker
Member
Username: alfelker
Post Number: 29
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 10:42 pm: |
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Return system hookups are for diesel engines only. The Garmin fuel sensors only work on gasoline engines. I have used mine for a year now with only my installation being a problem.
I twisted the fuel hoses while installing causing a constriction in the line. Reinstalled and worked great. |
John Rattray
Member
Username: silv360oz
Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 11:18 pm: |
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The Silverton we purchased from Destin Fl last year has return flow back to tanks and if very much a petrol boat. I think Crusader like the return line system  |
Joe
Member
Username: outriggers
Post Number: 65
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 11:20 pm: |
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The newer Crusader FI engines come in return and non return versions. I have the return version and had to buy the display that uses two sensors. |
Al Felker
Member
Username: alfelker
Post Number: 30
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 12:59 am: |
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Unbelievable. A petrol engine with a return line? How does that even work? What is the advantage?
I am skeptical. Sorry. I should start a new thread maybe.  |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 7139
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 06:26 am: |
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It prevents fuel from being overheated in the pump (which moves more fuel than the motor burns). Some cars also used such a system with a carb to prevent vapor lock.
Jeff |
diver dave
Advanced Member
Username: diver_dave
Post Number: 509
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 08:54 am: |
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"Unbelievable. A petrol engine with a return line? How does that even work? What is the advantage?"
My Bosch controlled car of 1985 used return gas line from the mechanical fuel rail regulator. It used the intake manifold as reference pressure, and bled fuel pump excess back to the tank. Those electric fuel pumps at the tank don't have built-in regulators, so the regulator was at the engine. As Jeff said, cooling is maintained at the pump.
More modern systems use electronic sensors at the fuel rail and feed back to the pump for exact output. My current car has a 2000psi ! fuel injection pump, but other than that, have no idea how if it has a return line! |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1895
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 09:19 am: |
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Most of today's system still use a regulator referenced to manifold pressure. Keeps the pressure differential across the injectors constant.
Besides enabling pump cooling, a tank return system helps to ensure thorough filtration of the fuel in the system.
2000 psi! on a gasoline system?? |
diver dave
Advanced Member
Username: diver_dave
Post Number: 511
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 09:40 am: |
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The so-called Prince engine, designed by BMW, made by the French.
"Mounted at the rear end of the intake camshaft, the mechanically driven two-piston high-pressure pump delivers fuel to the injection valves via a stainless-steel distributor rail. These high-pressure valves inject fuel directly into the combustion chambers from the side at a pressure of up to 120 bar, in the process maintaining a homogeneous distribution of the fuel/air mixture in the combustion chambers. "
Some more details:
throttle butterfly GONE- Valves are continuously variable in duration.
variable oil pump volume- no bypass oil, pump runs as hard as it needs to, but not more.
coolant pump controlled- At warmup, the pump is kept OFF.
220,000 rpm turbo- almost no turbo lag, boost comes on at 1500 rpm.
Many of these recent auto engine features are targeting efficiency, clearly not reliability! |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 7140
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 11:10 am: |
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Just imagine how many expensive things can go wrong with the above--just after the warranty expires!
Jeff |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1896
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 11:12 am: |
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Sounds like the new version of direct injection...
concur on reliability vs efficiency. Bet the mechanic loves to see that roll into the shop.
Is the realized efficiency there? |
diver dave
Advanced Member
Username: diver_dave
Post Number: 513
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 11:31 am: |
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Yep, I'm the lucky/proud/fearful owner of this technology, as it resides in my 2009 MINI turbo. 4y/50k warranty. I get 30.2 mpg in the city, 35 @ 75mph constant. The Prince engine was introduced in 2004 or so, and is targeting many car models, even several companies of cars, between the English, German, and French. That alone is scary! Oh, I forgot to mention, it runs on 20,000 mile interval engine oil... |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1898
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 11:43 am: |
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That's neat - same interval I'm now using with MOBIL 1 in my old tech vehicles.
Glad you are getting some benefit from that hi tech stuff. |
