454 Crusader running hot

Author Message   Joe May New member Username: team_mayhem Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2009 Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 08:22 pm:    I have read a lot of good engine tips on this forum for some time but don't think I have ever posted a question until now. I have been chasing a temperature issue and wanted to see if you guys could share your thoughts opinions... I have a 1982 36' Egg Harbor with a pair of 454 Crusaders. The engines have about 1600 hours on them and the starboard engine has been running hot for as long as I can remember (I have had the boat for 8 years). I have been trying to solve the problem over the past month and have replaced the heat exchanger, elbows, risers, oil cooler, all hoses, impeller, and through hulls. The engine is 27 years old so the vast majority of that stuff was long overdue anyway.... The problem is the engine is still running hot. It's right at 205 degrees when running and 180 at idle. It will run up to 180 degrees within a couple of minutes of starting it at the dock... Oh yeah, I replaced the thermostat as well. I have an infrared temperature gauge and have been able to confirm that the temps on the gauges are accurate so that ruled out the gauges (or at least I think it does? So by my calculations I've changed everything imaginable on the cooling system side of the engine (all in the last 30 days). That got me thinking about internal things that may cause it to run hot.. One idea being the circulation pump for the coolant? If the coolant isn't circulating would the engine run hot yet not overheat? The other idea that a friend had mentioned was that it could be head gaskets... If I am understanding the concept correctly he thought the exhaust gases could be getting into the intake side of the cylinders hence "super heating" the engine? He had indicated the fact the engine ran up to 180 so quickly while at the dock was an indicator of head gasket issues... I can say that from taking the temperature at the top of the intake just behind the carb the temperature is 257 degrees. Anyway, I'm at a loss of ideas and don't know if either of the two ideas listed above make any sense or if you guys may have a recommendation before I go down another dead end.   Al Advanced Member Username: knuckle47 Post Number: 789 Registered: 09-2007 Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 08:48 pm:    Joe, You mention every cooling part except the manifolds. Have you done those also? Surely coolant flow could be an issue but as you mention, going down another dead end is not an option. BTW: Nice pictures on your website. I went to high school in S. Miami not to far from the old Parrot Jungle ...Palmetto HS. Lived by Dadeland Mall on SW 77th.   diver dave Advanced Member Username: diver_dave Post Number: 485 Registered: 08-2008 Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 09:15 pm:    Yeah, room temp to 180 in two minutes at idle is not normal. I'd also think maybe a gas charged coolant, although 8 years without a major issue? Remove the HE cap and look for gas bubbles. There is also some trick litmus type paper that is designed for exhaust gas detection, I think.   Al Advanced Member Username: knuckle47 Post Number: 791 Registered: 09-2007 Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 09:24 pm:    I remember when we thought we had a head gasket problem and there is a test in the engine manual about using a coolant recovery bottle and 3 feet of clear hose in a U shape to observe bubbles in the coolant.   Joe May New member Username: team_mayhem Post Number: 2 Registered: 05-2009 Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 09:38 pm:    Thanks for the responses guys.... Al, I'm glad to hear you like the website. I do quite a bit of fishing down here and the old Egg has treated me well over the years. We actually pulled 4 Wahoo off of Port Everglades last Sunday but I haven't had a chance to post the pictures yet. I did not change the manifolds but when we did the elbows/risers we did look at them and they looked good without any indication of rust (although we did not take them off the block) Dave, to answer your question, I have been very fortunate not to have any major issues. I blew a transmission 30 miles off of Marathon one time but that was the only problem I've had with the engine. I'm not the most engine savvy guy so can you please elaborate a little on "gas charged coolant". I have pretty good access to the top of the heat Exchanger and can easily look for any bubbles. Would that be pretty clear to see? Also, if my coolant circulation pump is working, would I be able to see the coolant circulating with the cap off? I'm guessing it would be pretty easy to tell the difference b/w bubbles and circulation?   diver dave Advanced Member Username: diver_dave Post Number: 489 Registered: 08-2008 Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 09:55 pm:    I meant no increasingly major issue over 8 years with a leaky head gasket. I would view the water with the heat exhanger cap off, checking for bubbles. Compare with the other side as well. I have heard of people wearing out the metal impeller in coolant pumps, causing weak flow, but I've got high time pumps on mine without issue. Are you sure the thermostat is put in the correct direction?   Joe May New member Username: team_mayhem Post Number: 3 Registered: 05-2009 Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 10:04 pm:    Thanks for the clarification.. I have had no increase in the temp or other issues.. It's just always been a hot running engine and since it never really gave a problem I just accepted it and kept a close eye on it. I will take the caps off, run the engines to see if I can notice a difference and report back.   Thomas Kelly Member Username: major_tom Post Number: 73 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 09:57 am:    As Diver said one would think that a bad head gasket over that amount of time would contimue to deteriorate, causing other problems, i.e. loss of coolant, loss of compression, etc. over time. My first guess would be a defective engine coolant pump based on how quickly it heats up. As an aside, a friend of mine repowered with two new crusaders and chased a cooling problem for two years. It turned out to be a defective engine coolant pump; unusual, but it does happen. The other possibility is poor raw water flow caused by an obstruction or defective raw water pump/impeller. I'd suggest measuring the output of each pump by some avaialble means or at least fitting fitting each pump with clear tubing by which the output of the pumps can be observed. Careful inspection of all hoses is also advisible; hoses can collapse internally without showing any obvious signs of failure. Replace anything old or suspect.   makomark Senior Member Username: makomark Post Number: 1810 Registered: 09-2008 Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 03:53 pm:    As noted above, not likely to have a bad head gasket and maintain the status quo. Do you have strainers - gasket condition? When you changed the thru hulls, how about the seacocks? Could be the circulating pump's impeller is damaged or slipping on its shaft. I saw one cheapo rust away in a small block once. What's in the heat exchanger? Checked its freezing/boiling point lately? Any idea if the heads or intake have been off? measuring the raw water flow is a key first step. do the 'cool' engine to get a baseline. Finally, check the exhaust hoses, especially the first couple feet. Insufficent raw water flow will usually show up there. Having an elevated temp on the intake, under the carb area is normal. There's an exhaust crossover port running between the heads to warm up the manifolds.   Joe May Member Username: team_mayhem Post Number: 4 Registered: 05-2009 Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 04:31 pm:    Thanks for the input guys. That makes sense that if it were a head Gasket it likely would have progressively gotten worse. To answer some of Mark's questions.. I do not have strainers on the boat but I did haul out/bottom paint two weeks ago at that time we replaced the thru hulls and sea cocks. Also cleaned the pick ups to ensure there were not restrictions there. All of the coolant was replaced when I had the Heat Exchanger cleaned. We flushed the heck out of the engine to ensure we had removed the old green coolant and replaced that with the new orange dextron. (No change in temp before/after) The heads and intake have not been off in the 8 years that I have owned the boat. I am going to measure the flow between the two engines and will check the exhaust hoses as well. I will also take a look at the coolant to see if it is noticeably bubbling or circulating. I can say that I have not had any problems loosing coolant so I'm guessing that's likely another strike against the head gasket.... Based everyone's input, it sounds to me like as long as my raw water flow is solid then it's most likely the coolant circulating pump. I'm glad to hear that as I would much rather that be the issue than the head Gaskets. Thanks again for everyone's insight. I will let you all know what I find.   Fastjeff Senior Member Username: fastjeff Post Number: 7067 Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 05:53 am:    An air leak before the raw water pump can reduce the amount of cooling significantly. Look for loose hose connections, a leaky strainer cover, a hose with a crack in it, etc. I chased an over-heating problem on mine for months before stumbling upon a leaky hose connection. Jeff

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