| Author |
Message |
    
Ray Slingerland
New member
Username: fighterpilot
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 03:39 pm: | 
|
Searching this forum revealed one location on bell housing. Another post indicated Thermo-electron on Valve cover. Just bought the boat, first gas inboard, and hope to convert to diesel, but cost may be such I stay in the gas mode for awhile. These are Crusader 350s which I assume are the the 454s. Where do I look on the engine to find more detailed information such as year, etc. Thanks. |
Don Keye
Member
Username: willow
Post Number: 85
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 04:27 pm: |
|
Crusader 350s are 350CID(Cubic Inch Displacement)they are not not 454s.You probably have small block Chevy engines if they are 350s.
My data re fuel/oil/timing etc is on a plate that is on the valve covers
There should be a plate near the front of the engine that will give you a serial number. Take that serial number and go here to find the year..
http://www.marineengine.com/manuals/crusader/serial_numbers.html |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 774
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 06:28 pm: |
|
Some of the earlier 454's do say 350 on the valve cover...I believe it refers to HP |
Henry G Pelletier
Member
Username: cruisers00
Post Number: 66
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 08:06 pm: |
|
You are right Al, I do have 454's with 350(hp) |
Don Keye
Member
Username: willow
Post Number: 87
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 09:01 pm: |
|
Well well well...learn something everyday 350CID vs 350HP...sorry I doubted you Ray...
Perhaps here is something perhaps you can use...
Bit small but it does show you where you should find the data |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1785
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 09:43 pm: |
|
all the one's I've seen have a plate with the serial number punched into it. As Don's picture shows, it should be mounted on the top two flywheel cover bolts. The link above will give you an idea of the age/model year.
The gear will have a plate on it too. If it is in-line, the model will be 10-18-xxx, 10-17-yyy, or something similar. The last three digits will give you build info and gear ratio. V-drives may be different.
You can get a current model owner's manual at crusader's web site. From there, you should also be able to find a link to ask them for yours. The maintenance data is there as well as in the service manual. |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 775
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 09:54 pm: |
|
Don,
Those data plates are placed so well. I had to call Walter V-Drives last year to check on something and they don't even want to talk to you without a serial number. I wanted to reach thru the phone and grab someone...so, I had to crawl into that space with the digital camera on MACRO, iand get it to autofocus within the 6 inch space between THEIR data plate and the bulkhead. After about 15-20 pictures, I went home to the computer to enlarge the snapshots and PRESTO...I had 2 with excellent pictures of the serial number. When I changed the bellhousing last month, I drilled out the engine dataplate to bolt it to the new bellhousing and THAT was the 1st time in 3 1/2 years I had actually seen it. Ditto for the BW transmissions.
Good Luck Ray |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1786
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 10:05 pm: |
|
al:
aren't you glad you don't have to get that data four or five timmes a year? |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 776
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 08:37 am: |
|
I take it you mean as a job? YIKES. You know what gets me more then creeping thru stuff?
No matter how I try, I cannot avoid those razor like slices on my arms or clothes from the extra lengths of hose clamp that sticks out beyond the screw part.
The worst cut I got was from the smallest clamp...The one on the radiator cap of the HX on the hose to the overflow tank. Once the cap rotated, my finger sliped along the high edge and then "sliced" the entire width |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1787
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 08:41 am: |
|
Here's what I do with mine:
Install and using a sharpie, mark where it exits the thread housing + one or two 'slots' in the band. Removed and cut the band at the mark. Take clamp to grinder wheel and 'roll' the edges smooth. Reinstall and tighten securely.
It only takes me about two minutes a clamp and most of that is getting in and out of the bilge & on/off the boat. |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 777
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 08:44 am: |
|
THAT is a very nice idea.... There should be a hints and tips award for you some where. I have seen some very creative things guys make or do |
Don Keye
Member
Username: willow
Post Number: 88
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 09:00 am: |
|
On those sticking out ends I have actually used colored electrician tape. Just wrapped it around to hold the "slicers" down. As long as the tape doesn't get wet it will hold until you want to slice it off and remove the clamp...
I don't have a grinding wheel handy and the boat is parked about 1/2 mile from the marina shop. |
Ray Slingerland
New member
Username: fighterpilot
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 12:23 pm: |
|
Thanks to all of your guidance I have identified the engines. The camera was the ticket. They are SN 60450 and 60446LH attached to a Velvet Drive with 1.88 to 1 ratio. One serial number on the Velvet Drive is 102. I believe the SN on the engines indicates they are 1986 models. Thermo Electron Corp. built them. They are in a 1977 Stamas 32 Sport Sedan that was built from 1977 to 1987. Thought I would convert to diesel but now may just get the gas engines tuned up and use for a summer. If not will sell boat next spring with or with out the triple axle trailer it is on. Thanks for your help. Ray |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1791
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 12:46 pm: |
|
Ray:
Before you go off and spend a small fortune doing a conversion, you may wanna read this:
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/GasDiesel.htm
There's really only one reason to do it and in many cases, it is a much better deal to buy another boat with them already installed. Given the current market and the near-term outlook, it is a no-brainer. |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 779
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 12:50 pm: |
|
Mark, Your typing faster than I am...Was about to say almost the saem thing.
Ray, We WISH we had diesels and was almost ready to make that happen but JUST ABOUT THEN, the economy took a dump and this person still thought his 1979 42'Post with 6-71 Detroit Diesels was worth 2x its real value. We are so happy with the way our Crusaders are running and now that I have some level of understanding...I don't know that I would buy a boat with any other gas engine |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1793
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 01:52 pm: |
|
Sorry Al - I've been in that boat many times before...either the hunt and peck is too slow, the boss calls, etc..
We went thru the cost benefit study back at the time of "boat buying". Even with an aggressively optimistic view of how many charter trips one could run in a year, we couldn't figure out how the diesels would be cost effective. Two decades of looking back confirmed it was a prudent choice.
Even today, with fuel over $3/gal, it is a hard story to create and the finance companies are more skeptical now than when they got burnt over a decade ago. The only way I think you can get close would be to find some pristine running takeouts for really cheap and then do the install yourself.....many hours and lots of miles. Then all the little things - new props, new fuel hose, etc....just hard to justify even if you do have some spare cash. |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 781
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 02:03 pm: |
|
Hey Mark,
Our BIGGEST reason for wanting diesel is range. Currently, we can do about 40-45 miles one way from the ocean inlet with enough fuel to have for a comfortable stop on the way back in...The we want to fuel up again to make it back to the dock about 14 miles currently.
I have a few boats I know that can hit the canyons hand all day or night and then have reserve fuel all the way to the docks. They have about 100 gallons more on board than I do but that also makes a difference. Going from 34 to 42 is roomy but from the upper helm....a long way to the bow pulpit |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1794
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 03:56 pm: |
|
That's about the only reason to do it. I'd put it as last after adding additional tank volume which will always be cheaper as long as you can make the spece. Again, look how often you could/would and then think about this:
you can dramatically increase the range on a gas boat by slowing down. Not glamourous but very effective. You will also have a higher success rate because you can troll on the way out. I can't magine how having your lines in the water much longer can hurt the percentages. Worst case is you find a large school in much closer than where "the fleet" is fishing. You get to spend much more time on the water, too.
only downside is you are usually pretty tired when you get back in. last time I did it, we left after dark, we were trolling the mouth of the canyons at sunup with over 3/4 a tank. The chunk bit started that afternoon and the coolers were full by midnight. We were in the slip and washed down by 9am. total fuel consumed - 170 gallons. So, same fuel but 24 extra hours on the water.... |
Ray Slingerland
New member
Username: fighterpilot
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 05:15 pm: |
|
Thanks for the advice. It is an argument sort of like which is better a ford or chevy. I don't fish comercially which makes the diesel/gas argument even more favorable for gas BUT-I have had two diesel boats and now am running a big outboard with twin 200 Johnsons. Ethanol in gas, safety with gas, nearest marina is 20 miles, have to run 24 miles just to get to the Pass to go out into the gulf, and than go 20 to 50 miles further. My needs are lower helm, airconditoned, room for family-age 2 to 76, 6 to 8 of us, room to fish 4-6 off the stern, sleep 4 to 6, etc. I started looking 2 months ago for diesel boats that would meet my requirements. $50,000 dollar budget hasn't worked yet. Looking for cummins, yanmar, cats, in that order. No express boats or Deep Vs will not work. We also want to cruise the bays, coastal canal, and we primarily bottom fish. Need a stable boat. If 4 foot seas we won't go out. Need a salon for the family. I don't want to sit upon the flybridge running two hours with everyone else down below in the air conditioned spaces playing cards on the dinette or catching a nap.
I am familiar with Pascoe's work. I think he has his biased, but he does agree at about the 32-34 foot mark diesel does have a place. My marina gas fuel was 3.00 when off road diesel was 2.40. I have my own trailer and haul for my boats and my son-in-laws shrimp boat. But I don't want to haul gas. But you are right you have got to run a lot of gas thru the boat to off set conversion costs. But than again all is not lost with conversion. I could invest in the gas boat engines and in todays market probably not get any of that investment back, whereas diesel conversion I will get some return, although I agree not all by any means.
For me there is also the safety factor. Big inboard gas boats worry me. Plus I can keep a diesel going easier than I can keep up the fuel and ignition system on the gas.
Stamas 32, Trojan 36 Chris Craft 36 and a Tiara 31, not the express or open, Hatteras and Egg Harbor all had salon type accomodations with a lower helm on many of them. A Stamas 32 with yanmars sold in April at a good price but I wan't looking than. I bought a Stams 32 with the gas 454s just as a hedge since it came with a $7000 Alum. tripple axle trailer and the boat layout worked for me. $8500. It is sitting up by my barn for a winter project and if it doesn't work out than I will sell in the spring. I have had a mechanic in and he indicated engines looked pretty good and I figure there must be some value there as well.
I continue to shop for diesel boats and diesel engines and transmissions but maybe can't do it on a $50,000 budget. Than again, two years ago I bought a 29ft Aquasport Tournament Master with 2003 Yanmar 240s with 180 hours, full electronic, out riggers, etc. for $35,000 so maybe I can find a motivated seller yet. That boat was an express and they won't work for me today.
I got interested in finding out about my gas engines since my dau. and wife, the fisherpeople, want me to put the boat in the water even with the gas engines. So, I'm thinking about that. Thanks for your help and advice. Ray |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1799
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 10:00 pm: |
|
Ray:
Glad you have a list of needs as that will make things simpler. If you "need" the diesels then by all means keep on looking. Based on your list, you may want to try a 35' +/- catamaran. May have to stretch the budget a bit or settle for one that needs some fixing up...either way, they are out there, just may have to look outside the local area. and the 'buying season' is just starting.
I think you could afford some gas with that kind of deal...a watertight hull and two running engines for under $50/ft - that's a great deal anytime.
Good luck with the big blocks and go catch some fish. |
Ray Slingerland
Member
Username: fighterpilot
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 10:25 pm: |
|
Makomark-thanks for the suggestion and encouragement. I have been searching the usual Yachtworld, Iboats, Boat Trader, Boats.com, Salvage boats, Boat Quest, etc. nationwide, for two months. Actually I have but 8500 dollars in the Stamas and Trailer, and the A/C works, but the 4kw gen. doesn't. No electronic, but I have that from previous boat. I have considered Cape Dory type boats and some Catamarans but they get pricy if any size. I have decided it is diesel or nothing-I'm 76 and just don't want to put up with the challenges of gas engines and gasoline for fuel. I can keep the diesels running. I'm out of my environment with big marine gas engines. I'm also looking for 22knots cruise, forgot to put that in the list of needs. Anyway, thanks, Ray |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 783
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 10:15 am: |
|
Ray, knowing exactly what you want comes from a lot of experience. In the 30 yrs I 've been boating, I don't know that I could have made such finite decisions....My hat is off to you.
Mark, Be here tomorrow morning, we'll find a place to put that extra fuel tank and get it installed ! Actually, a very good idea.
Mark, Between my engines, I have about a 36" x 16" elevated walk. It is a board mounted on a few 2x3's about 6 inches off of the hull bottom. I could probably make a tank that could hold 40-50 gallons but then I would be about 6" higher in the "floor" between the engine but still have about 3" or so of stringer above the tank. Are you familiar with this space? |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1800
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 11:19 am: |
|
Al:
Looks like the exhaust manifold on the truck has tomorrow morning booked. That rattle has been driving me nuts for the past week.
I have an idea where you are talking about. Mmay be viable. I usually looke for spots where the traffic is minimal and the install requirements are economical. Perhaps a couple pics from that wonderful camera you have could spawn a new thread? |
Ray Slingerland
Member
Username: fighterpilot
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 01:01 pm: |
|
Al, this would be the 4th boat in 5 years. Trying to get it right this time. I have learned something on each one. Not fast enough on the first one, 13knots loaded, Express type on the second one, gas outboards 3rd one, and this summer in the Gulf convinced me I need some A/C. I'm the Captain running it out, but become the deck hand for my dau. and wife once we get there and I decided enough is enough. Ray |
Don Keye
Member
Username: willow
Post Number: 90
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 02:35 pm: |
|
Not fast enough on the first one, 13knots loaded
Wow, twice my speed..... If If I get a good tailwind I could see 7.5Kts but..........I don't have to worry about getting anywhere and weather is really not a factor where I boat..Bad weather springs up and I can hide behind an island for as long as I want.
Speed no longer factors into my life from 600+ for 40 years to 6.0 kts is fine ..although I am a bit embarassed cause my 'Admiral' has told people that a turtle passed us once.
Boat safely 'buoys and gulls'. |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 784
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 03:14 pm: |
|
Ray, 1n 1979 we bought a Catalina 25 sailboat with a 15hp outboard on the tail...after 2 hours, we were about 1000ft away from where we started after 5 miles of travel.
By the thrid year, the boat just sat there collecting barnacles...I know what you mean and I wish you luck in your search!
When our prop spun a few months ago and we had 1 engine at about 6 knots, my brother reminded me..." so, you wanted a trawler?" |
