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Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 740
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 01:53 am: | 
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I am wiring the new gauges for connection to the boat and I am folowing the ABYC color code for wire circuits. I am thinking, since I can't find it, that orange is the correct wire for the panel lighing inside the gauges ? Is that correct? Is it acceptable to daisy chain the grounds together from gauge to gauge. When they say power come from the ignition swith, with 11 new gauges, that does not seem like it should be. Is it best tio have a terminal block coming from the key switch separately? Thanks Again Guys ! |
diver dave
Advanced Member
Username: diver_dave
Post Number: 471
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 07:58 am: |
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I daisy chained a lot of wiring at my gauges. My first round was with studed stewart warner and the brass studs made it easy. Later, I am using 1/4" push on VDO's, still possible, but not so easy.
Orange? should be ok.
Power from ign. switch. Purple, correct? This, again, could be daisy chained, although a term. strip could also be used in a "star" arrangement. Both work.
I made liberal use of the small width tie wraps to make things neat, occasional use of bolted SS lined cable clamps, and never the self adhesive square mounts.
The one rework I did years later was to wire the voltmeters directly to the SW battery switches, to reduce voltage drop error. |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 741
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 10:12 am: |
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Thanks Dave,
Yes, Purple..I am using the 1/4 push on with the panel lights and 14ga wiring throughout. IF I run separate legs for each connection I would have a bundle that is quite thick. They say in the tech sheet NOT to stack wires without having a nut between them to minimize loosening but that brass stud is about 1 1/4" long and HALF of that is used up by the rear mount bracket. These techniques make it less tedious but I have done things in other areas that may have been less tedious but a lot more wrong ! |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1741
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 12:13 pm: |
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The spec color is Dark Blue for the instrument lights. Orange would be acceptable, at least from the decades I've been doing that stuff.
I redid my VDO's a while back. Used 16 ga with the piggyback 1/4" QD connectors. When it comes time to redo the current assortment of gauges (1/4" QD and studs) I think I'm gonna go the terminal strip route. I've had a couple instances where the connectors have corroded up and its a time consuming effort to isolate the 'bad' one. The 'star' arrangement with the term strips should eliminate that issue.
I've found you can stack three ring terminals on a stud, max, and then need the separating nut befor adding any more. Depending upon the specific gauge and the panel layout, I've had instances where you could only get two on a stud.
If you are short on stud space because of the bracket, make sure to use the space between the gauge back and bracket first, before trimming the bracket legs. |
diver dave
Advanced Member
Username: diver_dave
Post Number: 473
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 04:04 pm: |
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14awg is at bit overkill; I'd have no issue with 3 rings on a level then a nut spacer when you need more room. |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 743
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 05:11 pm: |
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Much of the old stuff is 16ga....some is 14 and some is 12....Most is COPPER STRAND....I am still waiting to discover an old SOLID COPPER lurking somewhere...Who the heck knows
3 lugs fit well and with the ss lock washer and the nut...all is good. I might be able to do 4 but that is when I would go to the terminal block. I am trying to keep it consistant...I do not like half and half even though it would be infinately better than what is in there now.
By the way, I found a way to increase my oil pressure almost double....leave off the lower helm gauge.... (only kidding) |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1749
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 05:44 pm: |
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You didn't double your pressure, you just doubled your indicated pressure.
Actually, if you are really careful, you can get 4 rings over a stud. take a pair and put them 'bottom to bottom". Repeat for the other pair (optional if "angular space" is limited). Carefully locate first (critical) pair so their wires aren't making adverse contact. Secure jam nut. |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 745
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 06:14 pm: |
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I have done exactly that on some of the gauges... On those 2 1/4" gauges, there is a limited space and the space that is there has a lug for the panel light as well. The larger tach and sync units have lots of space.
As for the oil pressure if it says 75...it is ! 
I am all too aware of the resistance values required for the dual helm set up...IN FACT, I was hoping to eliminate it if possible, COMPLETELY useless. Once you get on plane you are looking 15 to 20 degrees above the horizon and steering for docking from the inside with all the blinds and drapes...useless.
I remember a ham radio buddy who was stationed for a short time at Earle over near Long Branch had (at the time) invited a few of us to take a tour of the ship. One thing that as cool was the high elevated wing that the captain uses for a great view while they are docking. Another cool thing was the 6 months of food for a few hundred people. |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 746
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 06:47 pm: |
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Here is a blurry shot of the assembly so far |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 747
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 06:47 pm: |
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Here is a blurry shot of the assembly so far |
alexander suprin
New member
Username: alsuprin
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 07:32 pm: |
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can any of you guys tell me how to find out what yer my engines were made so I can get a service manual. They're crusader 165's serial gm 6369732 n2. Thanks of you have any guidance. - Al |
Don Keye
Member
Username: willow
Post Number: 63
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 07:44 pm: |
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Al,
For starters I would go here...right on this website and here is the link..
http://www.marineengine.com/manuals/crusader/serial_numbers.html
You seem to have a lot of numbers as far as serial numbers go so I'm gonna guess that it would be 1986 as your numbers fall in this era...but as I said too many numbers..
Perhaps some really.... really old guys can point you in another direction if required |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 748
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 10:01 pm: |
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Al, Which part of the engine did you get the numbers from? |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1751
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 10:03 pm: |
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Al: have you improved the template or is the real layout off? Yes, the pics are a bit fuzzy but I haven't consumed alcohol in at least a month.
Alex:
Welcome!
you should have started a new thread.
your serial number looks like a GM number and is probably a casting number. where did you find it? a pic would be helpful if you can.
I don't have a bunch of crusader data but I can't see where they made a 165. maybe a pic of the whole setup (engine box) would help too. the link don provided is one of the best Crusader listings I've seen. |
Don Keye
Member
Username: willow
Post Number: 64
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 10:43 pm: |
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Did a bit of searching and this is all I can come up with. Not sure if it is a 165 or not although it is referred to as a 165 in an article I read. AL does your engine resemble this one...?
 |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 749
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 08:17 am: |
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Mark,
The real layout is the blurry cluster you see with the chartplotter to the right of that and a set of 9 horizontal switches to the extreme left. Use your imagination...if you have none left, try a few shots!
BTW: Thos 2 black gauges are Vacuum...$1.99 on eBay |
Ej Breeze
Advanced Member
Username: ejbreeze
Post Number: 139
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 08:50 am: |
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Nice layout all. Have you had a switch panel made up yet or can you use the old one? |
Don Keye
Member
Username: willow
Post Number: 65
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 10:54 am: |
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AL......Below is a cropped photo of part of my instrument cluster. You will note that I have re arranged the engine instrument clusters so that both gauges, (one from Port Engine and one from Starboard engine) are together...ie: both temp gauges are together, both oil pressure are together etc. (It's a pilot thing..gauges are easier to cross check for me)
You will also note that I have two analogue tachs but I never use them. The small black box above the tachs is a twin engine digital tach and is extremely accurate and makes syncing the engines a breeze. ..I love it.
My question is this...since you are in the process of rewiring your clusters, have you ever seen......... or considered ALL digital gauges for your instrument panel?
I am seriously considering going entirely digital, individual gauges, (I don't want install the new tech glass screen total engine monitor)
 |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 750
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 12:24 pm: |
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Yes Don, I have consider them including the system monitors built into 1 panel with the key switch..BUT, This was a significantly more reasonable cost than anything I thought about especially since my 1992 engines won't share any of that data. I have something similiar to your tach/syncro but I do not have the correct sending unit to provide the information. The one I thought might work, didn't. So for the tachs and gauges, I have under $500 so far, they are 25+ years newer that the ones on the boat and will be fine for now. When I cash the multi-million dollar lotto check someday, I am going all digital ! In fact, I may just take a cruise and call it a day Our Garmin chartplotter has a great digital screen with digital information displayed on analog looking gauges, odometer, speedometer, fuel, etc...Not having NEMA from the engines leaves that screen blank. We do use the GFS10 fuel monitors for each engine and that data is also on our chart screen and it is like the older Cadillac dash details with distance to empty. Digital is very nice I am sure you will love it, I would. |
Don Keye
Member
Username: willow
Post Number: 66
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 12:57 pm: |
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Thanks for the response Al...I think I have a winter project in the works.........digital guages for everything |
Ted Broderick
Advanced Member
Username: tbrodes
Post Number: 107
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 04:18 pm: |
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I didnt know they still made gauges that we could just hard wire in to our old set up. My marina told me I would need to rewire all of the wires to teh engine as the tachs dont have 4 wires.... |
diver dave
Advanced Member
Username: diver_dave
Post Number: 477
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 07:53 pm: |
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Digital gauges: Have you seen these?
http://www.plxdevices.com/
I don't know if the head unit is waterproof, but they solve the dilemma of digital or analog. They can do either or both! |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1757
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 09:45 pm: |
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Those are neat DD...but at close to $200/hole, they wont be on my dash anytime soon. I can buy an barely used MPI setup for that and get the whole engine sensor suite on the digital bus.
Looks like Ted & I will keep teleflex around for another season or so, at least in the gauge market. |
Don Keye
Member
Username: willow
Post Number: 67
Registered: 11-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 09:39 am: |
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There are a lot of digital guages out there, even looking on EBay I found "New" gauges running at $49.00/gauge
TED...my digital tach did not require running new wires back to the engines...the back of the tach has 4 inputs...Grnd/Pwr/Light/Prt eng/Stbd Eng....took the leads from the old analogue tachs.
MAKOMARK.you have piqued my interest
Where would I get a used MDI and all that I need to hook it up...and do they come for twin engines???? Just pondering |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 753
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 06:27 pm: |
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EJ, There is no old panel. Silverton elected to place all of the switches in the lower saloon helm and the fly bridge has only 2 keys, a horn button and 10 gauges. Even the fuel gauge is down below in the absolutely useless lower helm. I was going to call a place to see what can be done or made up.
My wiring was in such a poor state that I am sure there are in accurate readings in the entire set. They did not use tinned wire anywhere in the AC or DC systems. When I stripped the old wire, it was blackened from corrosion nearly 5 -6 inches under the insulation from any terminal end.
I overkilled and supersized the AC 2 years ago and the DC was half heartedly cleaned up little by little. NOW, it goes full blast. New panel, meters, wires etc.
I did find a set of disconnect plugs to the bridge instrument panel but there are so many other taps and cross connections it would take as much time to trace it all out and find what is going where...once out of the water I can just RIP IT ALL OUT and start over. Until then, I am still waiting for the striper runs to start. |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 6994
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 06:40 am: |
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Can you spell the word N-I-G-H-T-M-A-R-E!
Better you tahn me, pardner! I hate electrical stuff.
Jeff |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 755
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 09:14 am: |
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Hey Jeff,
You should have seen the AC stuff. They had used one of the heavier air conditioner cords to wire in the ballast resistor on the OLD engines and left it just hanging when they repowered with the 454's. The first season we owned it, I wondered why it was there adn once out of the water, I tugged on one end it it just pulled thru. AGH!
Every wire is either red , black or green...
I like all the pretty new wire colors |
