| Author |
Message |
    
Joel Daugherty
New member
Username: joeld98
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 05:16 pm: | 
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I have a Crusader 454 CID engine that has squirted oil out of or above the intake manifold that was clearly mixed with water. There was more on spare parts kit in the center of the bilge that looked like the Water and Oil mixed independently after landing (Some clean oil Spots and some milky spots.
This engine ingested water when the exhaust system failed last year. I replaced everything possible without pulling the intake manifold or heads. Including some of the intake manifold bolts that held the engine lifting hooks onto the motor when I blasted and painted the engines.
The engine ran on 3 separate cruises at WOT of around 3600 RPM. The first two were 1 hour each and the third was 5 hours. I checked the oil after each trip and 3-5 days later in each case with no more water appearing in the oil. This last trip however, I checked the oil before leaving and opened the bilge after about 30 minutes to find the milky oil (about 1/4 cup sprayed onto the back of the carburetor and puddled on the manifold along with about a cup or two that made its way over the exhaust into the center bilge. No oil from below, the diapers are clean except for a little transmission fluid spray.
One other now. I did a leak down and compression test on this engine before working on it and after re-assembly with the new Oil cooler, lines, fuel pump, water pump, alternator, exhaust manifolds, risers, elbows, rebuilt carb, sensors and thermo housings.
If there is no water in the pan when I get down there this weekend, it is a mater of pulling the intake manifold or is there other things to check first? Or if there is water in the pan, where should I start?
I'm about at wits end with this thing. |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 6678
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 31, 2009 - 05:38 pm: |
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Aauugh! Ain't boats a pain!
I'm thinking head gasket leak and, if so, a compression test might spot it.
Good luck!
Jeff |
Joel Daugherty
New member
Username: joeld98
Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 09:14 pm: |
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Jeff, Thanks for the reply.
It's gone from bad to worse since I posted about the milky oil. The engine has completely seized. Water on the top of #3 & #5. I burnt up the starter the following weekend and it took a few weeks to get it rebuilt. When I couldn't get it to break loose with a breaker bar, I hired the yard to look at it. Borescope showed considerable corrosion. I can only guess some of it was from the last years issue and the rest from whatever happened in August.
Long story short, I'm looking into a couple long blocks come spring.
I've also decided to try my hand at rebuilding the two 454's. I plan to pull the boat in a month or so then wrestle the engines out to work on them at the house. Most extensive repair I've done is a head gasket replacement. Seems like a good learning opportunity. I'd like to do the heads myself while I'm at it.
If anyone has any experience tearing down a Gen IV 454, I'd appreciate any pointers your willing to share with a greenhorn.
Thanks
Joel |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 7081
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 10:34 pm: |
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Joel:
Strongly recommend that your throw THAT motor out and either buy a rebuilt long block, or get another one to rebuild. I suspect the heads and or block has a crack somewhere. It would be a shame to go through all that work and $$$ and have it happen again.
Jeff |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 801
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 10:35 pm: |
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Joel,
Is this the same boat I just read about in the SOC Newsletter? AL |
Joel Daugherty
Member
Username: joeld98
Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 11:00 pm: |
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Al, It's the same one! It must be bad karma from painting my Crusaders black! I had good compression and leak down results after the exhaust system failed last fall. I rolled the dice on a partial rebuild and here I sit. |
Fastjeff
Senior Member
Username: fastjeff
Post Number: 7084
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 06:49 am: |
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Oooohh! You were asking for it by "Mercruisering" that good Crusader!
I hope it all turns out okay.
Jeff |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 803
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 01:48 pm: |
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Joel,
After reading the first paragraph in the SOC newsletter about how you believe you can do anything ....I have come to realize we are related. That is saddening to have the chain of events occur on your boat as I have been through alot of that in slightly different ways but it still has the same affect on you.
There are likely several sources for you out there and rather than suggest any I have not used, a little typing research and I am sure you will have much to think about. I just love that 40C and easily understand why you bought it. I do have a few questions for you but the one haunting me is...was the boat surveyed prior to purchase and if so, what results were regarding these engines.
My boat was surveyed but for 2 reasons: I knew it needed a lot of work and we would not be able to get insurance unless it was surveyed. The report was long and extensive but overall much better than I would have expected. To bring the boat up to safe standards required a few days of work. To bring it up to our expectations has taken 3 years. Where I was apprehensive about taking her more than a few hundred feet from visible land (swimming distance) we now venture offshore 30-40 miles with ease. We have only just started to address the cosmetics. Frankly, she is really starting to look pretty... especially now that most of it is the SAME color.
You can count on this website's members to help you address almost any questions you will come up with as you venture deeper into issues at hand. I have been working on our boat for 3 years and have been walked thru along the way by many knowledgeable people with experience and guidance...keep everyone thinking with your questions. |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 1839
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:46 pm: |
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Joel:
it ain't the paint - I "MercruSaderized" mine during major overhaul and it didn't even object to swapping those thick heavy log style manifolds to the lighter center riser style....must have been the stainless elbows thet have kept both happy... |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 804
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 03:59 pm: |
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I forget you have Stainless Steel ! I would like to use those manifolds but even though it is only 2 seasons with the new ones...There is NO WAY, I am playing contorsionist again to amke that happen! |
Joel Daugherty
Member
Username: joeld98
Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 07:26 pm: |
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Al,
I had a marine survey and a separate engine survey. While I don't think they were dis-honest, if I had it to do over I would have had an independent mechanic do the survey rather than the yard where the brokerage was held.
The survey results were no visible water in the oil, normal levels of corrosion from inspection of thermostat housing, compression O.K. for age of engines. (120 -150 Port, 130 -150 STBD) Not more than 10PSi difference between adjacent Cylinders. Could not determine age of manifolds or risers but definitely needed replacing.
I factored in re-powering in my offer, but hoped to get a season or two with some catch up maintenance.
When I moved the boat from where I bought it to the yard I worked on it at, it was an 82NM trip. About 2/3 of the way there, the Starboard engine dropped to about half speed and would not go above 2200 RPM. We made the rest of the trip that way. It wasn't until I went to change the oil right before haul out that I found the milky oil in the port engine. I changed the oil and filter 3 times until it ran clear, check the plugs again (no sign of water on tip side), checked the compression again with the same results. Also did a leak down test, then hauled the boat and made my repairs (6 month's on the hard). The engines fired right up after getting them back together. Launch was a comedy of errors, but a little more work in the slip and 3 or 4 little half day cruises to clean up my mistakes and I thought I had it licked. Made the 82NM trip again to get closer to the bay hoping to enjoy a few weeks of the season. Checked the oil after getting there, everything looked good. Checked it again the next morning, still O.K. Took a 30 minute spin the following weekend and just happened to poke my head in the bilge and found the problem that led off the thread.
Either I efffed up when I torqued the manifolds or blew a head gasket as Jeff mentioned or both. Never overheated, second time, no water made it to the pan.
All in all, not a surprise; but I was hoping for 12 months of play time on the boat instead of another 6 in the bilge! |
Al
Advanced Member
Username: knuckle47
Post Number: 808
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 09:37 pm: |
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Joel, I read that in the SOC and it brought back some vivid memories. I guess an oil analysis did not happen. I also guess we could sit here and discuss this in person for a full day before any real understanding of the problem develops and at this point, you are where you are.
I know I would not want to be in the position of HAVING to pull the engines and re-build from scratch but you may have to make that call based on your more intimate knowledge of these engines. Sounds like you are going to deal with multiple issues regardless and pull the trigger on those decisions based on what you will uncover on disassembly. Have you pulled the valve covers yet? |
Joel Daugherty
Member
Username: joeld98
Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 09:46 pm: |
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Yeah, I think Jeff is probably right on target with tossing the block, but I'm just itchin to autopsy the thing. It's worth a weekend or two to me just to say I tried. I'll let you know how it goes. |
