High copper content in oil

Author Message   pat New member Username: pisle7 Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2007 Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2007 - 10:13 pm:    current oil analyis shows high amounts of copper in engine oil. engines only have 10 hrs on fresh oil and filter change (360 hrs total). Analyis shows over 100ppm of copper. Any suggestions?? Mechanic thinks is may be lower bearings, oil analyis company thinks is may be the oil cooler.   stephen p hierholzer Member Username: 67hat34c Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 03:17 pm:    never herd of a cooler breaking down on oil side. if it corroded through the water side then you would have water in the oil. metal particulate is comming from a wear surface. Now one quesiton, how old are the motors and how long have you had them. I ask this because there is a product called Engine Restore. Product added to your oil, it is noting more than fine copper particulate designed to fill in the warn surfaces. wonder if someone used this stuff before. Also, how do the motors run and sound? Dropping a pan and doing rod bearings is not all that bad.   pat New member Username: pisle7 Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2007 Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 04:26 pm:    The motors have 360hr on each, they are original to the 1991 boat. We just bought the boat this Sept, 2007. We had an oil analysis done when we bought the boat and the copper was thru the roof. We changed the oil and filter (along with a full tune-up). After 10+ hrs we had another test done. copper was still high. The motors run great and sound good, oil pressure is right on. Any other ideas? Thanks   stephen p hierholzer Member Username: 67hat34c Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 08:22 pm:    I am betting someone used Restore in this motor. Just run it and change oil frequently, every 20hrs for a few times then re check the oil, if it cleans up then I suspect that product was used. go to an auto parts store and read a can of it. nothing but suspended very fine copper particles. complete waste of money in my opinion. If bearings were wearing that bad, you would hear them by now.   Dwight Brooker Member Username: sailmaster Post Number: 61 Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 07:41 am:    PowerUp is also an oil additive that uses suspended minerals. This is how they pass the proverbial "timken bearing test" at trade shows. I agree that these products are a waist of money. Before going through the expence of an overhaul I would take Stephan's advice.   pat New member Username: pisle7 Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2007 Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 11:42 am:    why would someone put restore into the oil of motors with so few hrs on them? What would make them think it would be a good idea? Thanks,   Eddie from Oregon Visitor Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 03:29 pm:    For years people have bought into "snake oil" remedies for engines. Modern crankcase oil comes with a package of additives and the advantages of those precise formulas are ruined more than helped by throwing some gimmick additive into the mix. People do it all the time though. I applaud Stephen and Dwight for input and advise you to use that sound advise.   Dwight Brooker Member Username: sailmaster Post Number: 62 Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 06:59 am:    In response to "What would make them think it would be a good idea?" to put additives of any kind in the motor oil of any engine. The answer is "advertising" STP put millions into advertising for a product that’s only good feature was to quit lifters or gearboxes down long enough to sell a piece of junk to some poor unsuspecting consumer. I did research for the Canadian Navy back in the 80’s while I was the FSR for Solar Turbines on additives that could be used in the gearbox of gas turbines installed in the DDEs and AORs of the time. None of it was approved or suitable to meet the MIL specs. Although there was one product that stood out and it was “not an additive” but an oil stabilizer. It was and is marketed by the names Morey’s, Lucus and XM-5 depending on what region you live. It is 100% oil. It would stabilize the viscosity of the engine oil keeping it closer to the rated centistokes measurement (i.e.; 10W30) indicated on the bottle under extreme conditions.   stephen p hierholzer Member Username: 67hat34c Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 01:47 pm:    speaking of snake oil, i recently herd that Slick 50 was sued for Fraud/Misleading advertising. the commercials where they added their product in a Viper and then drained the oil and drove the car around all day with no oil was complete bull, never happened. To be honest plain old dino oil is all you need, there is no real need for synthetic. also no need to change every 3k miles. in the 80's college car was a 1980 toyota corolla. iron block with push rods. i only ran dino oil and used cheep fram filters, changed every 5 to 8k miles. when car hit 100k i decided to take apart the motor just to see what it looked like, thing was brand new inside. hone marks in cylinders all looked new etc. put her back together and drove it another 50k miles before sold it and it ran just as good on the last day as the first day. Now in my cars etc i do waste my money and buy synthetic, makes me feel good but that is only benefit. dont use cheep frams but use bosch or the Honda filters. Boat engines get dino oil, we change often as we bought it used and it did have some sludge build up which has finaly cleared after 4years of changing every 25 to 50 hrs. True hours are unknown but clocks say 600 and we are fairly sure they were changed before we bought it , priro owner said old clocks had 600 hrs or so on them. guessing we have 12 to 1500 hours on model 350's. they have 160-165lbs of compression in all cyl and run strong. no oil use etc. there is a ton of snake oil on the market. only thing you may want to do is use Marvel in the crank and in the gas tank once in a while to clean up stuff and dump some seafoam down the carb to clean out the varnish in the combustion chamber and intake valves etc. both products are low cost and work.   Eddie from Oregon Visitor Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 04:37 pm:    Stephen, I'd agree except with MMO in the crankcase. Additive packages already in the oil is all you need. Simple. Just keep you oil changed. Period, the end.   Lenny D Member Username: lennyd Post Number: 27 Registered: 07-2007 Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 10:29 pm:    I am not a chemist or lubrication engineer, but I have worked within the industry in the past, and I think one of the best uses or values of an oil analysis is being missed here. You dont need to do much more than just use your 100ppm (and the entire previous report) as a baseline or starting point, and then re-test the same oil after it has some more run time on it, and compare the results. If your engine is wearing more than normal it would show up as increased levels etc. Also I believe there is some great info on the marketing of products sold as additives, but also some misunderstanding on the value of the use of specific additives in motor oil, and how most all of the lubrication and oils we use contain some sort of additives anyhow. The real problem seems to be that it is not a simple task to know which additives are in which oils (or over the counter products like MMO etc), which ones you really want for your specific application, and what combination you need etc. Honestly its anything but simple. I have seen professionals in many industries with years of experience in their fields that do not fully understand the lubricants they use, and what they could do to get improved results. This is especially true with many in the marine industry where marketing and years of pressure from the engine and drive manufacturers has had more of an effect on their thinking than anything else. There have been countless advancements in lubrication over the last 10+ years (especially in synthetics) and many of the superior products that can offer the biggest advantages are made by smaller companies or blenders that dont have the advertizing budgets of the big co's and the average consumer never learns of them. Lets not forget that it was only a few short years ago that most all auto and boat mfg's recomended against the use of synthetic oils, and today many of the require them, and synthetics are little more than a mixture of additives (ok its more complex but you get the idea).   Al Lombardo Advanced Member Username: knuckle47 Post Number: 168 Registered: 09-2007 Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 11:07 pm:    This synthetic vs organic oils debate is obviously a lengthy one. I have read so many reports and comments by so many persons in all phases of manufacture and usage. I think Lenny D's view on the oil analysis is perfect. See what develops from this baseline... I STILL have no idea which is correct BUT.... I can say this as fact: In running all synthetic oils in my boat last year my GPS speed indicator reads an average of 3 kts increase. GRANTED....Sea conditions play a significant role but this is an average over about 36 days of use about 8 hours a day. I agree paying the extra cash adds up at $6-$7 per quart and with my port engine riser problem I had to change the oil 4 times in 1 month...but I think I will continue with the synthetics given MY experiences..So far. I do understand that some older engines my discover some seal problems if switched to synthetics. I absolutely agree that advertising plays a monster role in those other oil products. When I was younger and thought I was helping my cars' engine, I would buy some STP Restorer, Bardhal, MMO you name it, I could almost feel the improvement. I have learned a bit more since...I think   Lenny D Member Username: lennyd Post Number: 28 Registered: 07-2007 Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 07:49 am:    Al, thats a good point on the seal issue with older engines and changing to syns. It is a real potential problem especially with many of the brand name products, but not as much with the many of the smaller less known brands because as part of their attempt to set themselves apart they tend to use more additives and more expensive additives that address a laundry list of potential problems. I have seen combinations that included products like moly, ptfe, various additional stablizers, climbing agents, seal fortifiers, and a bunch of others that deal with everything from high or low temps to a need to cling to parts like glue. Syns are still my preference, and I can not see why anyone would give up superior performance on an oil that is used on an expensive product like a boat or car etc, Tests have shown that a properly formulated syn will not break down as quickly, lose its lubricity, create various acids and other unwanted effects of the combustion process, not leave an engine unprotected by an extended dry start due to syns having superior pour at lower temps, and a host of other serious advantages. Also like Al I have seen those simple changes like increases in wot rpm, speed, and fuel mileage with the initial change to a good syn oil. I remember seeing a good article on some of the better points, and potential issues with syns. It even got into a real problem with how they are rated, and I will post a link if I can find one.   Fastjeff Senior Member Username: fastjeff Post Number: 4372 Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 04:43 pm:    Glad to here somebody got sued on that Viper BS commercial! The motor has hydraulic lifters--you don't run it without oil and get away with it! Jeff   emac Visitor Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 09:23 am:    OK, on the topic of additives, what about Lucas Oil, (has a diffent name in canada I think) My auto mechinic, also a boater, swears by it. He recommended I add it place of qt of oil, especially for an old engine like a 83 crusader. He said there's alot of junk out there, but this stuff works. BS? Its not like he's selling me the stuff, just recommending it.   Dwight Brooker Member Username: sailmaster Post Number: 74 Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 11:53 am:    Lucas Oil Stabilizer was originally marketed in the US by the Inventor, a petroleum engineer by the name of Clayton Morey and called Morey's Oil Stabilizer. Lucas is the same product manufactured by Clayton Morey's Son. The product is marketed in Canada under the name X-M5 and manufactured in Estevan, Saskatchewan. There are no additives in it and it is a 100% petroleum product. It works by stabilizing the viscosity index of your engine oil. With heat and shear, oil lets say SAE 30 is subject to thin out to a lower centistokes number, reducing the vicious barrier that reduces the friction, heat and wear between metal components. Lucas stabilizes the oils stated viscosity reducing the thinning of the oil. It is not compatible with synthetic oils. I have used it with great success for 25 years.   Fastjeff Senior Member Username: fastjeff Post Number: 4383 Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 07:47 pm:    Ditto! Great stuff. WOrks far better than STP. Jeff

Add Your Message Here Post: -Color- Black Red Green Blue Yellow Purple Orange Cyan Gray White -Font- Arial Courier Symbol Times Verdana -Size- Smallest (-2) Small (-1) Normal Large (+1) Largest (+2) Username: Posting Information: This is a public posting area. Enter your username and password if you have an account. Otherwise, enter your full name as your username and leave the password blank. Your e-mail address is optional. Password: E-mail: Options: Automatically activate URLs in message Action:

Administration Log Out   Previous Page Next Page

Home / Directory | Engine Manuals | Engine Parts | Discussion Board | Free Classifieds | Orders / Shipping | Contact Us | View Cart

About Us | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy MarineEngine.com, 184 Jones Dr., Brandon, VT 05733 USA Phone: 802-247-4700 FAX: 802-301-1034 info@marineengine.com Copyright © 2000 - 2007 by MarineEngine.com, Inc. All rights reserved

Traduca Traduisez Traduza Traduca Ubersetzen