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Message |
    
Tom Udaman
Member
Username: hanapaa
Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 12:49 am: | 
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Hi All,
I have a 1979 22' boat with GM 350/OMC 800.
I just got my boat back from service and to check why tilt does not work. They said I had to replace tilt motor, but they wanted too much so I told them I'd replace it myself.
Anyway, took me about 30 minutes to remove the SOB way in the back there. Took motor out and connected it to a spare battery and it RUNS!!
This boat is still new to me, but I followed the wiring as best I could and it looked like they (blue and a green wire) went to 2 separate solenoids, then skinnier wires (I suspect) went to tilt toggle switch.
The 50A fuse looks good, so I suspect either both solenoids are no good or I have a switch issue at tilt toggle switch.
Can someone lead me to a schematic on how this whole system is wired so I can check where my problem is since motor seems to work fine? I'll order a manual shortly, but want to take of this in the meantime. Or if someone went through this similar problem, let me know what you did.
thanks!!! |
Tom Udaman
Member
Username: hanapaa
Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 04:24 am: |
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Okay, I have another question regarding this.
Since switch on throttle control lever is being used for trim and since I already have separate trim tabs, can I just re-route wires from trim solenoids to tilt motor instead of to trim motor?
Seems like that's where the tilt switch should be anyway. Or do I really need trim on engine in addition to the trim tabs?? |
Tom Udaman
Member
Username: hanapaa
Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 06:43 am: |
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Please disregard my 2nd post as I just read up on how this system works. After reading more on these, I know I bunch of you will say to dump the boat because of the OMC, but I think it's still worth it if I can get a couple seasons with the boat.
I like the design of hull, so if the outdrive ever fails, I might just convert it to an outboard with transom bracket as I'll get more fishing space back there without the engine.
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chiefalen
Member
Username: chiefalen
Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 07:14 am: |
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do you have a manual for this motor and outdrive?there were a couple of things you could have checked before pulling the tilt motor.how were the elect.
connections.did it not run at all?was it slow up or down?no click when you hit the switch?on the port side on the intermediate housing on the outside of the boat there is a tilt clutch housing.did you check if it had water in there.ill bet its molasis.pull the four screws cover.pull off the cover .post what you see in there.how is the hammerblow coupling?now that you pulled the motor? |
Hy Stat
Advanced Member
Username: hystat
Post Number: 218
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 08:47 am: |
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Tom, you wanna be sure you are straight on what's trim and what is tilt.
If you run your style of drive "tilted" at anything above idle, you will destroy your ball gears and upper gearbox of your outdrive.
TILT is only for loading the boat on a trailer - do not start the engine with it anywhere but full down. Your boat may or may not have Selectrim. I suspect you don't have trim if someone installed tabs.
When you say the motor runs on the bench, does it spark the wires and try to twist itself right off the bench and fly around the garage?
Most totally destroyed, and dead motors will still spin on the bench.... doesn't mean they have the torque to lift the drive.
Keep searching - lots of tips and tricks here in prior posts....2 shims under clutch cover is my fave- really helped on my two boats |
Hy Stat
Advanced Member
Username: hystat
Post Number: 219
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 08:49 am: |
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other most recommended process is removing all terminals from relays, and filing the terminals shiny, and- most importantly: the terminal side of the nut shiny too. |
Tom Udaman
Member
Username: hanapaa
Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 10:16 am: |
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Chiefalen - I need to still get the manual and will check on items you asked. There was no click or sound before I took motor out.
Hy Stat - the switch on my throttle handle controls trim motor that is on front of engine to raise or lower (selectrim??). Boat also has hydraulic trim tabs that appears to be same age as boat and they work also (That's reason for post #2) The tilt switch is on the dash. I never started the engine as I just got boat, so I took it to marine repair shop to change oil, tune up and check why tilt motor don't work before I take boat out for first time.
They did all that, said engine runs fine and that tilt motor needs to be replaced. I "assume" they knew what they were doing and manually dropped outdrive (with 3 bolts and 1/2 moon gear) when they started engine as their older tech is a certified OMC tech.
When I put tilt motor on the bench, it sparked and wanted to jump off the bench. How can I tell if motor is still good or not when it appears to be alive still?
I'll clean the contact points at all the terminals and check the clutch housing later today. |
Hy Stat
Advanced Member
Username: hystat
Post Number: 221
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 10:36 am: |
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generally, if the motor takes off with that much torque, it's good....but still a chance it's not...only real way to test is on the boat, unfortunately...so a process of elimination and visual inspection the only way to determine if anything else is binding the tilt system |
Bud Fox
Member
Username: manipulator
Post Number: 71
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 09:49 pm: |
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Your motor is fine, check your connections on the solenoids. Mine was doing this, the connections at the solenoids were corroded. I cleaned and tightened them. The tilt solenoids aren't too much if you need to replace them. Grease your trunnion pivots points too. Some times the moon gear likes to bind, I put some OMC marine grease on mine and it works smoothly now. Put the motor back in, jump the solenoids with 12 volts see what happens. It's probably a connection. Keep the trim, the tabs really don't take the place of power trim. I have the same set-up as you. Also, you probably have water in your tilt fluid box. You will probably find that it is low too. They all leak! I packed mine with marine grease and never had a problem with it since. Take a grease gun and direct the nozzle in the drain hole and pump it with grease until it comes out the fill hole, put the drain plug in and then pump in more through the fill hole. |
chiefalen
Member
Username: chiefalen
Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 11:05 pm: |
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i have same problem with tilt housing having water in it.i replaced all the gaskets and still have water.as mr fox posted they all have water in there.filling with grease is what i do also.with the electrical issue assuming its not the switch;is run a wire to the solenoids from the battery as mr fox suggested its what i did.i left the wire on never took it off, wanted to make sure that i had good power to the solenoids.one other thing the hammer blow coupling might be bad.dont over tighten the tilt housing cover that could bind the tilt shaft inside the housing.you must have a fully charged battery i cant say that enough fully charged.good luck |
Tom Udaman
Member
Username: hanapaa
Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 06:35 pm: |
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Thanks to all for your help so far.
Update:
I must have had a bad connection on switch itself.
After I cleaned terminals at switch, reconnected, hooked motor to socket and wala, I can get it to run both ways now. I still need to stick that motor back in to to see if it has enough torque to raise and lower drive (not looking forward to re-installing the thing a it was a pain taking it out).
I checked the clutch housing fluid and it was still full, but with possibly some water in there, so I flushed and changed it out. I took off the 1/2 moon gear and supported outdrive so I could check if I could manually turn the shaft from the inside, which I was able to do, so that seemed fine. I checked the hammerblow and that looked okay too.
So , now I can get power to and run motor, so took care of that. The clutch assembly and hammerblow appear to be okay. Now I need to get down there and put that motor back in with new gasket. I'll make sure both batteries are fully charged and cross my fingers that I fixed my problem so I can finally take boat on the water. |
kevin
Member
Username: alien4fish
Post Number: 42
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 07:46 pm: |
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hey guys, ive been following along here on your post. sorry but I have to ask as im "tinkering" with the tilt on my Omc too, The wires are BARE coming off the the motor. Looks like maybe a heat melt? but the motor does work the drive moves up and down when i go "direct" from the 12 volt I will strip and re clamp new wire later after the motor is back together. and then try to get it to tilt at the dash. Is there way to manualy raise and lower the drive? And..... Is there a way to test the electric shift to make sure it is engaging?? as the motor is in pieces!
Thanks again and so sorry to hijack but im dealing with the same chit man  |
Tom Udaman
Member
Username: hanapaa
Post Number: 9
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 08:43 pm: |
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Hi Kevin,
No problem hijacking this thread. The other guys need to jump in on yours as I dont have elctric shift.
If tilt system is the same, you can remove the 3 bolts (use 9/16" socket)on port side of outdrive that connects to a 1/2 moon gear that gears into clutch assembly. When you remove the 3 bolts, hold onto the 1/2 moon gear so it don't drop, then lift drive manually and remove 1/2 moon gear. |
Tom Udaman
Member
Username: hanapaa
Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 10:13 pm: |
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Well, I was able to re-install motor. It went up, down, then stopped working!!!! Just click from the solenoid...I pulled motor out again and this time, it would not even run direct to battery.
Before I ordered another motor, I decided to take motor apart and found it was dirty and brush on one side was sticking. Cleaned it up, put it back together, hooked it up to battery and it worked again. Since I love reaching down there in that tight little corner and re-installing motor, I slapped it back in and it worked again!!! I re-connected the outdrive and was surprised how easy it lowered drive and more surprised on how easy it raised it and fast too.
I am not sure how long it will last, but it's working like it's got alot of torgue.
Oh, and because I love removing and re-installing motor so much, I managed to forget to install gasket prior to final installation. I thought I was all done till I saw the gasket sitting on the floor looking at me. After the 3rd time installing the dang motor, I felt like a pro and managed to remove and reinstall WITH GASKET in less than 5 minutes. |
Hy Stat
Advanced Member
Username: hystat
Post Number: 232
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 08:59 am: |
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haha... yeah, I pull my tilt motor off every second weekend or so.. just for fun!
just keep a 9/16" wrench on board in case you ever need to hang off the back of the transom removing the quadrant gear to get on the trailer.
Someday I'm going to mount a little hydraulic high torque geroller motor in where the tilt clutch is and connect it to the hydraulic trim system with a diverter valve. run the hoses through the tilt shaft passage.... |
Ed Weidig
New member
Username: edjunior
Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 09:30 am: |
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And who says there's no humor when dealing with OMC's!! Good to see it's working again and in the end a nice cheap fix! |
Tom Udaman
Member
Username: hanapaa
Post Number: 12
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 12:37 am: |
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when you make a booboo like that (forgetting the gasket) after struggling to mount motor and screw in bottom bolt, you are gonna either laugh or cry about. If you cry about it, chances are you'll feel like taking it out on something else. I chose to just laugh about it.
For now anyway, I did get away cheap. Who knows how long it will last. Might be a day, might be another 29 years?? |
Rick st.
Visitor
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 11:03 pm: |
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i have a 350 with omc 800 same tilt set up. you can put it on heavy duty 3 position spring toggle, they are like a heavy power window switch. make sure the case is grounded good if it doesnt have a ground terminal. i discovered mine was just weak it would turn with out it mounted but wouldn't pick the foot up. i took it apart and the water and oil intrusion had took its tole on it so i cleaned it up with electrical cleaner and it then it would do flip when i put juice to it without it mounted so then i reinstalled it and it didn't even know the foot was there it worked soo well and that was 3 years ago. your local starter and altenator shop should also be able to repair it so far as if the brushes and springs are worn out. screw 300 bucks for a new one |
Ward Rogers
New member
Username: jollyroger1940
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 03:16 pm: |
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I have a 93 omc with 5.0 ford. The tilt motor wont work using the up/down switch. I replaced the relay module; still no tilt. The motor works fine by hooking up straight to the battery. The relay module works when disconected from tilt switch and again hooking signal terminals directly to battery. When the tilt switch is disconnected from the module except for the hot lead, I will read 12v on either signal lead when the tilt switch is either pushed up or down. When the tilt swith signal leads are reconnected to the relay module I read less than 1 volt when either switch is activeated. The schematic I have does not show any other components in the circuit, but there is obviously a high resistance that is droping most of the voltage. The boat does have a tilt gauge but it does not show on the schematic. It does appear to be isolated from the tilt motor circuit. Any help would be appreciated. By the way, the relay module was changed twice. |
Hy Stat
Advanced Member
Username: hystat
Post Number: 365
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 05:47 pm: |
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start a new thread please Ward- your boat's tilt system is not even remotely similar to the one being discussed here. Making everyone reread all these post leading up to yours is frustrating for them. |
Mark Holden
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 12:54 am: |
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HAving simialr problem with my Model 800. Tilt wouldn't raise the motor - just a clicking noise. Could not remove boat from the water because I could not trailer it. Had to rent a slip for a couple nights. Is there a way to manually raise the outdrive if the electric tilt motor doesn't work? Can I get at these parts with the boat in the water? Any good advice is appreciated; it would certainly be more convenient to run through some of the tests mentioned here if I had the boat at home instead of 40 miles away in a slip costing me $20 per night. Thanks. |
chiefalen
Member
Username: chiefalen
Post Number: 14
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 07:32 am: |
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you could remove the half moon gear and raise the outdrive bye hand.tie it up.put it on the trailer and with a friend holding the outdrive up reinstall the half moon gear till u get home u will need a 9/16th socket with a 6 inch extension u will have to enter the water yourself and feel for the 3 bolts remove the three bolts and when u raise the outdrive do not loose the half moon gear keeep your hand on it.it will fall soon as u raise the outdrive.good luck if u wish u may email me and ill try to help u. |
Mark Holden
Visitor
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 12:05 am: |
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Thanks for the info. I just returned from retrieving my boat. I was able to get the drive tilted up enough by tapping on the tilt motor with a hammer while my buddy depressed the "Tilt Up" switch. Got the boat home and pulled the tilt motor. Also drained the clutch gear case as was suggested on the site by others - it had water in it for sure. I'm going to have a local shop check out the motor for me to see if it is OK or can be rebuilt. Found one on the web for $195 if I have to replace it; not too bad I guess. Thanks much for the information again, I appreciate it. |
