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Message |
    
Steve Dugan
New member
Username: sad1
Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 08:52 pm: | 
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Port Engine wont turn off using dash switch. I swapped the wire connections behind the dash port for starboard. Not the switch as the problem followed the harness to the other switch.
Any ideas? I can stop the engine by momentarily hitting the start side of the toggle. Not good. |
Boat Tech
Member
Username: boat_tech
Post Number: 40
Registered: 01-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 10:40 pm: |
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To begin with Your main power relay may be stuck, Or you could have a problem with your starter solenoid.
You could try tapping on them to see if you can get them to turn off.
See numbers 5 & 11. http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show_Pictures3.asp?dnbr=881785001&ivar=images/COM MON/6760.png&inbr=11838&bnbr=30&bdesc=PCM+and+Bracket |
chiefalen
Advanced Member
Username: chiefalen
Post Number: 580
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 07:06 am: |
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This problem just start, or did it happen after you installed a new starter, or other component? |
Guy Gaspar
Senior Member
Username: guyjg
Post Number: 5555
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 11:44 am: |
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Look for corrosion between connections or wire terminals touching in the area noted by boat tech. Barely loose connections can move over time. |
Kghost
Senior Member
Username: kghost
Post Number: 1263
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 12:06 pm: |
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A loss of ground will also cause this condition.
A power source shorted to the purple wire will also cause this. |
Steve Dugan
New member
Username: sad1
Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 09, 2010 - 07:01 pm: |
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Great suggestions. I have disconnected and re-connected all plug type connectors, swapped the three relays on top of the engine port with STB. checked the wire looms for cut/damaged wires. Nothing looks abnormal.
Boat Tech mentioned the starter solenoid sticking, If I do a port to STB swap will that eliminate it as a cause?
This is driving me crazy, and not good using the starter to stop the engine.... |
Steve Dugan
New member
Username: sad1
Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 09:44 pm: |
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Could there be something in the PCM causing this?
I'm pulling my hair out. |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 2182
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 12, 2010 - 11:06 pm: |
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Steve:
better off pulling the 20 amp fuse to shut off the engine.
If you wanna swap parts, try the alternator; sometimes the diode in the excitation circuit shorts and will keep the ignition circuit energized when the key goes off. |
Steve Dugan
Member
Username: sad1
Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 09:21 am: |
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Macomark, thanks! I will swap alternator and hope for a positive result! I assume the 20A fuse is on top of the enigne next to the PCM? |
Guy Gaspar
Senior Member
Username: guyjg
Post Number: 5560
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 10:37 am: |
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No need to swap alternators to check for a shorted diode. Just check for AC voltage at the battery while the engine is running. |
Guy Gaspar
Senior Member
Username: guyjg
Post Number: 5562
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 10:47 am: |
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Sorry Makomark; I misread your response. The excitation circuit is not in the output.  |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 2190
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 10:56 am: |
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No need to apologize Guy; we are all here to help.
He may find the lug for the purple lead has +12V on it when the key is off...and the wire removed. I've seen that failure a few times. |
Guy Gaspar
Senior Member
Username: guyjg
Post Number: 5563
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 02:27 pm: |
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Thanks. It's a new failure cause for me; have to remember it. Waiting for 2' of snow to melt and temps. to rise above 28 F. BRRRRRRRRRR!  |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 2191
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 02:54 pm: |
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same situation here....the 2+ inches of ice under the snow is the big worry |
Guy Gaspar
Senior Member
Username: guyjg
Post Number: 5565
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 03:21 pm: |
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Steve:
Have you used a DVM or test light to check for voltage where it shouldn't be w/the key off? The slave solenoid should only have 12 VDC on one big lug. |
Rick Sweeten
Senior Member
Username: linesix
Post Number: 1691
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 05:21 pm: |
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I'm with Mark. Alternator and wiring harness would be my guess, providing you have eliminated the relays and solenoid.
I have seen wiring harnesses melt due to a poor ground or corroded connection causing two wires to melt together so make sure you do a visual on the entire harness. |
Steve Dugan
Member
Username: sad1
Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 07:27 pm: |
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Thanks for the ideas. spent the day swapping alternators...burrrr. did not solve the problem. I do however have 12V DC on the purple wire while the switch is off and the engine running and the harness disconnected from the helm switch. where does the purple wire terminate on the engine end?
also,I found three 20A fuzes on the top of the engine, which can I safely pull to kill the engine in lieu of hitting the start switch? |
Kghost
Senior Member
Username: kghost
Post Number: 1286
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 07:45 am: |
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You need to find where the 12 volts is comming from, That is your issue.
Did you disconnect the main engine harness plug/connector at the engine? if not do that and recheck.
If that is the connector you unplugged.
The following pics are for your enigine inclucing a link to the TWO manuals.
 |
Kghost
Senior Member
Username: kghost
Post Number: 1287
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 07:45 am: |
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Kghost
Senior Member
Username: kghost
Post Number: 1288
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 07:46 am: |
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Kghost
Senior Member
Username: kghost
Post Number: 1289
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 07:47 am: |
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Here is the link, you want manual 30 and 33
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=251571 |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 2196
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 09:09 am: |
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Steve:
Kghost set you up with the pages so you should be good there.
Bummer on the ALT swap.
WRT the fuses, even the service manual isn't clear - NO diagram of the three fuses. based on the schematic, I'd say all three are in line. pulling either end will get the injectors or the fuel pump, the middle one is the ECU and I'd leave that one alone.
Looking at the main schematic, the purple lead feeds the rest of the engine from splice 102. Other than the alternator, there's no other source on that circuit. Like Rick said earlier, it sounds like a harness issue. |
Steve Dugan
Member
Username: sad1
Post Number: 6
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 10:19 am: |
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Kghost, Great info! looks like I have my work cut out for me. Many Thanks, I will let you know of my progress! |
Steve Dugan
Member
Username: sad1
Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 07:14 pm: |
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UPDATE
After many cold hours in the bilge, I believe I have a bad PCM. PCM pin B4 which feeds term 85 of the MPR never returns to +12V upon key off. it seems to hold at .7 volts and holds the MPR closed thereby not killing power to the ignition coils. If I disconnect either PCM B or C connector, the MPR opens.
As a last resort, I swapped the port PCM with the STB PCM. The issue followed the PCM....
I guess I need to shop for a PCM.
One question, what will need to be done with the Smartcraft 5000 if I introduce a new PCM? |
Boat Tech
Member
Username: boat_tech
Post Number: 46
Registered: 01-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 08:18 pm: |
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Sorry to here that steve.
Unfortunately that was on of my guesses on the other forum
But here is a long shot you can try before buying a new PCM.
There is a company here in CA that may be able to fix your PCM, (IMO) It would be worth a phone call to see if they can help you out in any way.
(We can repair most Mercury and Mercruiser ECU's)
Call for Pricing, Simon Motor Sports.
760 440-9334
http://simonmotorsports.com/
Good luck I hope this helps. |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 2209
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 07:29 pm: |
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Steve:
Good detective work. Bummer it is the expensive one.
If Simmon's doesn't work out, there's another shop that was started by a bunch of guys that left Delphi some years back. If you need there info, just ask. |
Steve Dugan
Member
Username: sad1
Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 07:42 pm: |
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Thanks to all that chimed in to help. I will take any contact info you have including the best places to shop for a new PCM. In the meantime, I just finished installing a temporary switch to break the B4 PCM wire that feeds the MPR. At least I can shut the engine down now without triggering the starter. Let me know if this is somehow a bad idea.
Also, If anyone has input as to what I will need to do with the smartcraft 5000 and a new or reprogrammed PCM.
Thanks again! |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 2215
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 10:44 pm: |
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Steve:
I don't see any issue with your switch as long as you use it in conjunction with the key.
If you get another PCM, it will have to be a 555 type to work correctly with the engine. The data link interface should provide everything the smartcraft gauge needs. More importantly, IF you replace the PCM, it will have to have the flash memory programmed for your specific engine. Not hard if you have the high end scan tools. The source of the ECU should be able to 'swap' this data from the old to the new though they may want a fee for doing it. |
makomark
Senior Member
Username: makomark
Post Number: 2218
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 03:06 pm: |
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You can try these guys:
http://www.technicalservicesin.com/index.php?page=ecm
They may have "grown" but should be able to steer you if unable to help directly. there are also a handful of 'sponsors' on the offshore power boards tht specialize in "custom" ECU work. |
Steve Dugan
Member
Username: sad1
Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 09:38 pm: |
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UPDATE - My research has uncovered a Mercury recall and service bulletin from 2001. recall # 020107T amd bulletin 2001-14. Seems a diode can fail in the PCM causing the failure to turn off with key symptom. So, I'm not crazy after all.
Now, I have an 03 boat with serial numbers well beyond those in the recall, and to the best of my knowledge, the recall ended in 03. So it seems either there is still an issue or Mercuriser used an old PCM on 03's.
I guess the next step is to see what Mercruiser and or Sea Ray can do to help me out with this...
Comments? |
Boat Tech
Member
Username: boat_tech
Post Number: 49
Registered: 01-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 12:15 am: |
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Good find, This issue would be "Mercruiser" only and not A "searay" issue.
Do you know yet If Mercruiser does not want to help you out in anyway will one of the companys listed above be able to fix your PCM?
Also do you know about the Harness assembly adapter kit that is in that bulletin to keep it from occurring, Part number 84-884515A3 ??? |
Steve Dugan
Member
Username: sad1
Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 01:28 pm: |
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Good news. Mercruiser will stand behind this one and replace it under the recall. |
Kghost
Senior Member
Username: kghost
Post Number: 1301
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 24, 2010 - 02:14 pm: |
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