GM Engine/ What car ?

Author Message   Larry Whitehead Member Username: a1nowell Post Number: 11 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 08:41 pm:    MODEL 04708004, SERIAL 6684523. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT CAR THIS WAS USED IN?   Bt Doctur Advanced Member Username: bt_doctur Post Number: 161 Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 08:57 pm:    engine make, number of cylinders. horsepower. It`s a serial number ,but from who   Bert Goodrich Member Username: bertg Post Number: 64 Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 12:11 am:    Larry Whitehead It's a 470 4 cylinder, I think they came from a mid 60's Nova?? Not certain though. I know with mine the oil filter valve was different on the Marine version than on the car version. Bert   scott stephens Senior Member Username: scott_s Post Number: 1235 Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 01:27 am:    470 was never used in any car. it's a mercury marine engine. what are you trying to do?   Troy Advanced Member Username: troym Post Number: 483 Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 11:15 am:    Boat engines are not car engines. Similarities and some common parts... that's it. To some folks it's hokus-pokus eningeering or marketing BS, and put car eninges in boats because they're cheaper. Those same folks keep the local Coast Guard, Fire and Police Departments in business. Like Scott said: "What are you trying to do?"   Warren Jones Member Username: jw_in_dixie Post Number: 79 Registered: 06-2007 Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 07:25 pm:    Is it correct that the 470 uses a Ford head from a V8, 430 cu in? Have heard that. JW in Dixie   Rick Sweeten Senior Member Username: linesix Post Number: 1172 Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 08:49 pm:    Actually it's a 460.   Warren Jones Member Username: jw_in_dixie Post Number: 80 Registered: 06-2007 Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 10:17 pm:    I was thinking 460 but then had a memory pause and wasn't sure. Tnx. JW   Larry Whitehead Member Username: a1nowell Post Number: 12 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 10:37 pm:    I had a '78 Mercruiser before and it turned out to be the same four banger thet was in 78" Olds Siera (sp?). Most parts were identical and a lot cheaper from the autoparts store. I have just bought this 84' JC Tritoon with a four banger Mercruiser that needs a little work and I just wanted to same a little money. Troy Never had to call any of the folks you mentioned but did save money after finding the only car engine ever made that had a Mercruiser name on it. Stupid me for asking such a silly question.   Troy Advanced Member Username: troym Post Number: 484 Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 11:18 am:    Good for you. When you finally blow youself and your crew to hell and gone, please at least have the courtesy to not block the boat ramp.   Guy Gaspar Senior Member Username: guyjg Post Number: 1843 Registered: 08-2006 Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 01:34 am:    Troy: I am ROFLMAO!!! Larry: Please don't take it personally.   Gerald H Member Username: jerryh Post Number: 24 Registered: 07-2007 Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 07:31 pm:    I've got a 86 Glasstream with a 120 Chevy Chevette engine. Remember those?   Fastjeff Senior Member Username: fastjeff Post Number: 4340 Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 07:26 am:    ..." had a '78 Mercruiser before and it turned out to be the same four banger thet was in 78" Olds Sierra..." Not likely. That was the "Iron Duke", a motor that never made it to marineland. The marine motor you're referring to is the 2.5-3.0 liter four that began life a zillion years ago in the original Chevy II. A Chevy 6 banger with two cylinders loppeed off, the engine is still in used by both Mercruiser and Volvo--and it's a damn good one. Jeff   PugetSounder Advanced Member Username: pugetsounder Post Number: 172 Registered: 04-2007 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 11:43 am:    Obviously Troy has never had a Volvo-Penta. Every VP longblock is from a car motor. Whether made by Volvo or GM. There are lots of posts on that board about taking long blocks from cars and "marinizing" them. But the MCM 470 is a frankenstien creation only made by Mercruiser. Good luck but you may have to rebuld this one. I can understand MCs postion on making the motor, they are light weight, powerful, and have great fuel efficiency. With $4.5 gallon of gas at the docks and rising it makes perfect sense in today's market.   Lenny D Member Username: lennyd Post Number: 26 Registered: 07-2007 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 10:42 pm:    "I can understand MCs postion on making the motor, they are light weight, powerful, and have great fuel efficiency. With $4.5 gallon of gas at the docks and rising it makes perfect sense in today's market." Good points, but how do you think my 28ft would look with some oars sticking out the side I would go with a sail, but have a bridge restriction lol   Bt Doctur Advanced Member Username: bt_doctur Post Number: 238 Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 10:46 pm:    And now it`s Mercruiser`s "Bastard Orphan" A one-of-a-kind creation. maverick flywheel, 460 truck head, 460 pistons, 302 or 351 rods and bearings.custom aluminum block,custom oil pan, the strangest circ. system I`ve ever seen. Magnet/stator charging system, a so- called water cooled rectifier   Chris Richards Member Username: bigblock4banger Post Number: 51 Registered: 07-2007 Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 10:21 am:    I just sold my 18' (470)boat after having it for 2 years. I never had a problem with the engine. It is for sure a WEIRD set-up. But it does deliver on its promises of good power and great gas economy.http://www.members.aol.com/cdrr61/470.jpg The fact that they were ALL FWC seems to never be mentioned. Its a great advantage when in salt water. Chris   Bondo Advanced Member Username: bondo Post Number: 968 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 06:37 pm:    "Every VP longblock is from a car motor." Ayuh,...... All,.. Except the 3.0l Chevy motor,....... It's an Industrial/ Marine motor, that's Never been in a Car......   PugetSounder Advanced Member Username: pugetsounder Post Number: 174 Registered: 04-2007 Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 07:31 pm:    Bondo I stand corrected. But almost all of them! When I owned my Bayliner with an AQ140 set up I spent a lot of time over on the VP board and there were more than plenty posts on going to a wrecking yard, finding such and such model Volvo car, taking the engine, stripping down everything that wasn't marine purpose (including the cam shaft) and putting all marinized parts on it at a fraction of the cost of a new or rebuilt VP 4 banger. They were the same long block. I don't what I will do if I blow this MCM470 except keep my eye out for another used one in good. BTW there was one on craigslist a couple days ago from a boat used only in freshwater for under $1000. I wonder if I should've bought it for a spare? Knock on wood!   Troy Advanced Member Username: troym Post Number: 487 Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 07:46 am:    Obviously Troy is a dumbass as you shouldn't read any of his posts. Obviously Troy doesn't realize the 5.7L Mercruiser in his boat is nothing more than 350ci GM engine... 4 bolt main, cast iron heads; nearly the same setup he had in another boat, 'cept that one was a 5.0L, so there was some differences in highly technical stuff like stroke and bore. What Troy does realize is some of the stuff don't work out so well in the enclosed engine compartment in his boat. So before he goes to Autozone and buys a new carburator, alternator, starter, or ignition system designed for a Silverado and installs it in his boat, he does a little reading and finds out that those particular automotive items have caused more boat fires and explosions than can be read about in a week! Recognize that to some "engine" means block and heads. To others, it may mean block, heads, and everything else bolted on under the hood of their junked Vega hatchback, which has been sitting on blocks in the front yard since Moses was a child. A would be 'expert' would advise that the 'engine' is the same without fully understanding what is intended... and if someone really doesn't know what can and can't be swapped out one for one, we'll all get a chance to see the headlines, or even better: watch it first hand as small children jump from the burning vessel with their cute little scoopy-doo life preservers on fire. Think they give a crap if Mercruiser, Volvo-Penta, Crusader, or others use GM engine blocks? I really shouldn't let ignornace bother me so much... it does have it's place in Darwin's natural selection. So, thanks for the help in purifying the gene pool and like I said before... please don't block the boat ramp.   Guy Gaspar Senior Member Username: guyjg Post Number: 1954 Registered: 08-2006 Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 02:51 pm:    Nice vent Troy. You may have just saved some lives.   Lenny D Member Username: lennyd Post Number: 29 Registered: 07-2007 Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 02:01 am:    I had actually enjoyed how he said what needed to be said, but in a special way. I really like the part below I really shouldn't let ignornace bother me so much... it does have it's place in Darwin's natural selection. So, thanks for the help in purifying the gene pool and like I said before... please don't block the boat ramp. I have seen the safety topic explored on all kinds of forums, and the whole issue of people doing stupid things seems to mess up many of our sports and hobbies. One positive note is that at least when it comes to boating many of the regulations were created by the CG (people who spend time in boats, and on the water) and not just politicians(people who spend time swapping tax payer dollars for their own advancement and whims) like what happens in some of my other hobbies. Things are never perfect, but they are better than in others, and I have found that posts like Troys do get peoples attention, and make them think. Hope it works!!   Jeff Waters Member Username: scarab_excell Post Number: 31 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 07:33 am:    You can use alot of parts from a car, except electrial parts, Only thing different in the carb is the vent tubes, so I dont see the big deal. lets at like grown ups and stop the bickering before this thread gets closed!   scott stephens Senior Member Username: scott_s Post Number: 1259 Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 08:58 am:    Jeff, add camshaft, pistons, water pump, head gaskets, fuel pump, and lines and you're almost there. the "big deal" would become apparent as you watched your boat burn to the waterline. I recommend you and like thinking people leave one child at home (preferably the smarter one) to carry on the name. happy boating.   Jeff Waters Member Username: scarab_excell Post Number: 33 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 12:34 pm:    Well lets see, you said Camshaft, the only differnece is the over lap to stop water injestion. You said Pistons...there is NO difference. You said water pump...the engine water pump will work fine, only difference is the shaft that is stainless steel....but if not in salt it will run just fine You said head gaskets....some are stainless steel to prevent rust. You said Fuel Pump, just the vent line You said lines.....really a car has better fuel lines than a boat. You forgot the brass freeze plugs.. You said these items will cause a boat to burn up? WTF??? You must have been the child left at home. And I dont believe you were the smarter one that they left at home. I have been a certified mechanic for over 24 years so you need to think before you post. none of the above will cause a boat to burn to the ground. I would stick to boat parts but some money can be saved if you are a fresh water boater, I would use only marine parts for the salt.. Happy Boating   scott stephens Senior Member Username: scott_s Post Number: 1265 Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 07:19 pm:    could you rewrite that without the big spaces? I was going to hang it on the shop board next to my cert.s and licenses, (to keep me humble) but it's too long to print on one page. by the way, I wasn't left home, but my father always used marine parts. I'm not the smart one either. my rich brother the pilot is. my dumb ass gets by running a boat repair business. S.   allan in st pete Visitor Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 08:45 am:    " Well lets see, you said Camshaft, the only differnece is the over lap to stop water injestion.Big differnece check cam speck sheet , you will see big diff. You said water pump...the engine water pump will work fine, only difference is the shaft that is stainless steel....but if not in salt it will run just fine Big differnece you forgot SS backplate ,bronz impeller, ceramic seals You said head gaskets....some are stainless steel to prevent rust.Big differnece All are SS not some You said Fuel Pump, just the vent line Big differnece"just the vent line" If that diaphram faild at full throttle you would have a boat load of gas in your bildge before you knew it. boom You said lines.....really a car has better fuel lines than a boat. Big differnece when was the last time you saw a coast-guard approved fuel line on a car? I have been a certified mechanic for over 24 years so you need to think before you post.Big differnece I was SAE Cert befor I beacme Mercruiser Cert. Hint, cars aren't boats none of the above will cause a boat to burn to the ground.Wait, what? anything involving spark or fuel "can" Burn you up. all other MARINE parts are Marine parts for a reason.Durabilty and reliability are also important factors. I would stick to boat parts but some money can be saved if you are a fresh water boater,Wait, what? This is a myth you will not save anything in the long run. Towcharges around here are very high. $95 hr dock to dock I'm not trying to fan any flames, but please don't think you are giving good advise by recomending unsafe parts.   Jeff Waters Member Username: scarab_excell Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 09:15 am:    The cam specs are the the same as over lap, that is what causes overlap and the torque curve so I am correct on that, Water pump will last in fresh water without using a marine pump. Head gaskets, I have seen some that was not stainless steel, they where copper, maybe the owner replaced them before but they where copper and the boat was super charged. Fuel pump when I said vent line I was refering to the line that prevents the fuel from leaking into the boat if the diafram burst. Yes fuel parts will cause a fire if it leaks, but a water pump or cam shaft will not....come on guys we are talking about engines, like blocks, heads, ect.....why are we going to the small parts now. If a guy had a vortec engine long block he could change the cam shaft and install it in a boat and bolt on the other marine parts and it would work fine. Mercury DID NOT MAKE VORTEC BLOCKS!! I am done posting on this subject..... USE MARINE PARTS IF YOU ARE NOT SURE A AUTO REPLACEMENT PART IS A SAFE REPLACEMENT. BE SAFE!!!   Bondo Advanced Member Username: bondo Post Number: 975 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 11:06 am:    Ayuh,...... I Guess if a Cam has Different Spec.s,.... Then,... That would make it a Different Cam,.... Wouldn't it,..?? Ditto the Fuel Pump,.... If an automotive fuelpump Doesn't have a captive Vent,..... It's Very Different than a Marine fuelpump,.... Isn't it,..?? Ditto with a Carb,..... If an automotive carb Doesn't vent the fuel bowls into the venturi,+ the Marine carb Does,.... I'd call that Very Different..... Same with Fuel Lines, Alternators, Starters, Etc..... As for the Head Gaskets,...... I haven't seen a Steel Shim head gasket in Years.... Most ALL motors now a days use Composite Head Gaskets, with SSteel fire rings.... So, the Head Gasket arguement is dying Fast..... Btw,...... This Whole Thing started out with a Question about an old 470...... Which Isn't,+ Never was used in an Automobile......   Jeff Waters Member Username: scarab_excell Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 11:18 am:    you are correct, and I thank you for getting us back on track.....the 470....right now I remember where we where at....   jeff Member Username: perch_chaser Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2008 Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 04:11 pm:    I've got to give my merc 470 a thumbs up guys. while I will agree it is an odd set-up, and I had to add another joint in my fore arm in order to reach everything to winterize the heat exchanger, she starts every time, runs beautifully, and gets my 19 1/2' century to 42 mph with only my skinny carcass in it, and the fuel consumption is light. I see nothing to make me fear this motor. I am just a back yard tinkerer with a mercruiser manual, chainfall, and old oak tree, but this motor when properly cared for and paid attention to can give alot of reliable service. I watch my gauges, and go through a checklist the night before I head out, just a routine check to make sure all is good. That should be a part of any boaters prep. While there are lemons (no matter size or name brand) I find alot of motors die just because of neglect and abuse, then they get pawned onto some unsuspecting boater who doesn't ask for a test drive before making a purchase. just my 2 cents   Warren Jones Member Username: jw_in_dixie Post Number: 86 Registered: 06-2007 Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 05:11 pm:    Swift Jeffy - you and I agree on this. I'm almost afraid to brag on the old thing, for fear it will go haywire next time I go to run it. Mine's a 1979 and I am the third owner. It has its quirks but all in all I can't complain. I hate working on the outdrive, but I suppose they are all similar. This is my only I/O experience so I really can't compare. A few years ago on the first Spring use I didn't realize that the impeller was shot and the exhaust bellows about caught on fire, burned the trim and limit wires, ruined the water-cooled V rect, and scared my wife into jumping onto the first boat that come alongside. When the smoke cleared I had a lot of work to do. Replaced the rect with a new belt-driven alternator. Installed a water pressure gauge where the old rect was - on every crankup I check that gauge and feel of the exh manifold, just to be sure the pump is working. Thinking of installing a washing machine water level switch to a horn on the dash. Or to kill the ignition, or both. (Oh, oh, I have mentioned a non-marine part! I will be sure it is explosion-proof.) This has been a long and informative thread. You know, if would be nice if we could agree to disagree without being disagreeable. Cheers and have fun on the water. JW in Dixie   Guy Gaspar Senior Member Username: guyjg Post Number: 1960 Registered: 08-2006 Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 07:56 pm:    Just remember, if anyone asks, Larry Whitehead started this whole rigamaroll!   Troy Advanced Member Username: troym Post Number: 489 Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 06:51 am:    And, Larry never really defined "needs a little work" or told us what parts he wants to replace.   Lenny D Member Username: lennyd Post Number: 31 Registered: 07-2007 Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 11:28 pm:    I do not want to reignite the old arguments etc, but I do find the whole auto/marine parts issue interesting. I also want to be clear that my previous post was not intending to disrespect anyone, or fan the fire etc. Anyhoo 470 or any other model I have found that many, many people find marine parts a burden on their wallets, and attempt to find value or savings on their purchases, and this is what drives them into the auto parts direction. Heck I am guilty as well, but I can not see how anyone without some reasonable experience in boat engines and systems as well as auto related as well could be able to make inteligent decisions. I can see how it would be easy to get trapped into "a part is a part" etc, and have had inexperienced parts people try to talk me into trouble in an attempt to sell, or even to help. As some have pointed out already there are areas that are more sensitive than others, and I totally agree with this. From my own experience and testing there are some areas where with a little work and common sense you can save a few $$. I remember one time in the past where I needed to get a water pump swapped out for a trip the following day, and there were not any marine units available local. I understand that the auto unit I swapped in with the SS back plate borrowed from the old marine unit was running fine when the engine was removed for a repower. Would I recomend this with a starter or alt etc? Not unless the installer knew how to properly install the shields or screens into the auto pieces. Its scary business, and the idea of convincing people to spend a few extra $$ for the marine parts and the safety that comes with them seems to be a good one even if some of the prices being charged for marinized auto parts are little less than criminal.   Chris Richards