| Author |
Message |
    
John Smith
New member
Username: saved
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 02:15 pm: | 
|
I bought a new 3.5 back in August of 2007. At first the motor ran fine, but after about 3 months use it started to stall after running for about 10 or 15 minutes. I took it to the dealer and he replaced the coil. Now after a month or so it is doing it again, but it takes about 30 minutes of running. I also notice that the water coming out of the tube never changes tempture. It is always the same temp as the water temp going in. The engine seems to be hot at times even though the water pump is working. Also if I run the engine hard for much time it starts to loose RPM until it stalls. It is like it is getting hot and the piston is swelling. If I take the top off and let it cool for about 3 or 4 minutes it starts right up again. Any suggestions? |
Tohatsu Guru
Member
Username: tohatsu_guru
Post Number: 64
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 02:26 pm: |
|
We haven't had any problems with the ignition system on this model so it would be unlikely that a coil has failed twice. What's the serial number of the engine? I'll see what the dealer claimed on the warranty. |
John Smith
New member
Username: saved
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 02:40 pm: |
|
The serial number is 026615XG |
Tohatsu Guru
Member
Username: tohatsu_guru
Post Number: 66
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 03:06 pm: |
|
The engine is not registered and no warranty claim has been filed as of this point. Are you sure the dealer actually did anything? |
John Smith
New member
Username: saved
Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 03:18 pm: |
|
Well no I am not sure he did anything. I only have his word and it did run fine for a short time. He even told me that they shipped him the new coil in record time. He only had the engine about a week. As to not being registered I personally sent in the card the same day I received the motor. What should I do about registration and about the motor? |
Tohatsu Guru
Member
Username: tohatsu_guru
Post Number: 68
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 03:31 pm: |
|
Found it...But it wasn't sold to a John Smith. Okay, the engine is registered...To Someone and the dealer did file a claim on the ignitor. I think you should have the dealer look at the fuel system, cooling system and ignition system in that order. But, the main thing is to get it back into a dealer so they can fix it. |
John Smith
Member
Username: saved
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 03:38 pm: |
|
Thank you, I will do that. The name is a screen name for security purposes, not my real name. |
John
Member
Username: saved
Post Number: 8
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 11:18 pm: |
|
Well I took the motor in to be looked at and they tell me that it is the igniter again. This engine is only about 5 or 6 months old and this is the second time this has happened. Also it was bought towards the end of summer and now it is winter so the use of it has not been constant. I am wondering if this is happening to others with this same motor? If so is there a real fix in the works? |
Tohatsu Guru
Member
Username: tohatsu_guru
Post Number: 90
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 11:44 pm: |
|
We are not having any problems with the system. I would say either the igniter is not the problem or that something else in the system is causing the igniter to fail. A bad ground wire could do it. Have the dealer look for a root cause rather than simply replacing the igniter by itself. |
John
Member
Username: saved
Post Number: 9
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 05:31 am: |
|
Thank you for the response. I will let him know what you said, but my guess is that it would go over better if that suggestion came from a factory rep. |
Tohatsu Guru
Member
Username: tohatsu_guru
Post Number: 91
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 08:07 pm: |
|
Give Tohatsu a call at 972-323-6003 and ask them to look into the failure. They won't mind at all. Have your serial number when you call. |
John
Member
Username: saved
Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 04:45 am: |
|
Thanks, I will do that. |
76247
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, February 18, 2008 - 11:42 pm: |
|
i know this probably has nothing to do with you but my dad dealer number 104va ordered two of those when they first came out and both the ones he had would not burn all the fuel in the tank they flare out at half a tank and he fixed them both by enlarging the jets in the carbs and he said nissan had a service bulletin about the fuel issue you should look in to that i think he said nissan said 1 out of every 100 had that issue so look in to that they run about 10-15 mins |
John
Member
Username: saved
Post Number: 15
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 06:17 pm: |
|
Hello 76247,
after replacing three coils and the problem still goes on they are now saying exactly what you are saying. They are sending a new and larger jet to fix the problem. For the life of me I cannot see how that will fix it, but they say it will. I cannot understand how it ran fine for the first couple of months and then started to go bad and a larger jet is the fix. Also it raises a question to me about violating EPA standards by replacing the jet with a larger one. I guess we will see. I would be interested in someone explaining this claimed fix to me. |
Tohatsu Guru
Advanced Member
Username: tohatsu_guru
Post Number: 103
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 06:54 pm: |
|
No jet issues that I'm aware of...Who did you speak to at Tohatsu? |
John
Member
Username: saved
Post Number: 16
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 08:42 pm: |
|
I don't have a name. I tried contacting them and no one returned my request. I have tried 2 different times and no one returned a response. The dealer told me that he spoke to someone at Tohatsu and that they said this was the cure. They are sending the jet to him to replace it. The dealer also said that he has never heard of this before either and can not figure out how this will fix the problem, but is doing what they say.
|
Tohatsu Guru
Advanced Member
Username: tohatsu_guru
Post Number: 104
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 08:58 pm: |
|
I'll make a call tomorrow and see what the rational is and get back with you. |
Tohatsu Guru
Advanced Member
Username: tohatsu_guru
Post Number: 106
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 02:07 pm: |
|
And the answer is, as 76247 posted earlier...Sort of. They have had several (more than 5, less than 10) 3.5's that have had an issue with fuel flow in some applications. There is no service memo on this as the problem is not a defect. Tank design in concert with the way the engine may sit on your boat is the culprit. In theory you could change the angle of the engine and the problem would go away. Or, since they are assuming that you need the engine at that angle, the jet size can be changed to increase the fuel flow. The jet change is actually only increasing the fuel flow rate to what it should be and would not violate EPA regulations. There are a variety of jets that are available for all outboards to compensate for a variety of conditions. |
John
Member
Username: saved
Post Number: 17
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 06:31 pm: |
|
Thank you for the explaination. We will see if this is the fix. Thanks again. |
John
Member
Username: saved
Post Number: 18
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2008 - 05:18 pm: |
|
well I took it out and it ran fine after the jet change. I hope this is the end of the problem. Thanks for the advice and information. |
John
Member
Username: saved
Post Number: 19
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 06:54 am: |
|
Well I took it out again and it had big problems. There was this sort of small explosion under the hood. I took the top off and the oil filler cap had been blow out and it was actually shredded. That was the end of my motoring. That re-jetting job may have been too much for it. I did notice an increace in power but it just would not take it I guess. |
Tohatsu Guru
Advanced Member
Username: tohatsu_guru
Post Number: 111
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 09:47 am: |
|
Changing the jet size cannot cause the problem you describe. An explosion can only be caused by fuel igniting. T best advice is to take it back to the dealer, call Tohatsu and say enough is enough. |
John
Member
Username: saved
Post Number: 20
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 05:55 pm: |
|
I will contact them, but in the past they have not returned my calls for help. About the explosion. It was not a fuel fire. There was no fire at all. It was an oil related pressure explosion. Pressure built up in the crank case so high that it blew out the oil plug shredding it. Lots of smoke, but No fire thank God! I have told the dealer over and over that the engine runs hot and he says it is ok. This time I assume that it got so hot that it boiled the oil and pressure built up in the crank case. The water coming out of the outlet never gets warm. It stays the same temp as the river water going in. On cold days there is no problem, but on days like last friday when it was almost 80 degrees I believe that the motor gets too hot. That being said i will contact them again, but if no response an attorney will be contacted under the lemon law in this state. |
John
Member
Username: saved
Post Number: 21
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 06:22 pm: |
|
Well they finally contacted me and told me that they would fix as a good will gesture. Go figure? They blaimed the problem on a melted impeller. I have no doubt that the impeller melted as hot as it got. However i was watching and it was pumping water until the end and like I have always said the water coming out was always the same temp as what was going in. |
Tohatsu Guru
Advanced Member
Username: tohatsu_guru
Post Number: 113
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 07:46 pm: |
|
The engine could not have gotten hot enough to melt the impeller. The water intake ports became covered by a plastic bag, grass or mud, causing the impeller to run dry and that is what caused the impeller to melt. Without the water pump system operating your engine overheated causing oil pressure to exceed what the engine design parameters called for. The weakest part of the system, the oil cap, gave out and resulted in the forcible popping of the cap from the block. |
John
Member
Username: saved
Post Number: 24
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 04:30 am: |
|
That is incorrect. The engine was pumping water when it blew the cap. I was watching the water come out the port. Because I have had so much trouble with this engine and that I have held a concern about the water discharge temp for some time now I keep a constant eye on the discharge port while running. I also reach back and feel the water temp coming out of the port to see if it changes from river temp to a higher discharge temp which it never does nor ever has.
On this occasion I began to smell something strange so I was paying very close attention to the water discharge port and nothing was any different then usual. The engine began to slow as it has done many times before. Keep in mind that I was going against the current and while I was at full throttle I was only moving at about 2 or 3 miles per hour. They were dumping 22700 cubic feet of water per second at the dam. As the motor slowed in rpm it simply blew the cap. I hit the kill button to stop the engine. there was a lot of smoke and I was concerned with fire. I took the plug and covered the oil filler opening and let it cool for a few minutes and restarted the motor and it did as it always does,, it ran and discharged water that was not hot. I then left the river and the next day looked the motor over and found that the oil was scorched so i replaced thhe oil but never ran it again and on Monday took it to the dealer. At that time he told me that some gas got into the crankcase and caused the explosion. However the factory rep who was not there is saying what you said, but I was there and the water was flowing like it always does. There was no blockage. |
Tohatsu Guru
Advanced Member
Username: tohatsu_guru
Post Number: 114
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 10:23 am: |
|
And I believe you...But,.... |
John
Member
Username: saved
Post Number: 26
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 06:49 pm: |
|
Alan from Tohatsu contacted me. I told him the same thing as I have been saying here. He said that the engine should run between 150 and 165 and even if it got to 200 it would not harm the impeller. That may be true, but the oil was scorched and 200 degrees will not scorch oil. it had to get over 390 degrees to do that which is the minimum flash point of the oil to cause that vapor explosion I had. That temp would cause the impeller to bond to the sides of the case it is in and look like it failed. I looked at the impeller now that it has been torn down and it was molded too the sides and even looked like it was crumbly as if it got very hot. The motor was still very hot when I loaded the boat on the trailer. I assume that the high temp bonded the impeller to its pump case. All that I do know is that this engine has NEVER cooled like it should. It has always run for about 20 or 30 minutes at full throttle and start to slow in RPM and finally stall. Once cooled off it goes again but it usually will only run for about 5 or 10 minutes and slow again and stall. While I am guessing at the problem I think that the thermostat is not working correctly and not allowing enough water too cool the engine. After several months of this I had this final failure, but that is just a guess as to cause. However I do not need to guess about it pumping water out of the outlet tube. That I know for a fact. It is impossible to have water passing through the motor with a thermostat that opens fully at 150 degrees and the water coming out the outlet never gaining any temp. The only sound conclusion is that the thermostat is not working properly causing all this to happen.
They are not going to replace the engine. They are only going to replace the water pump and return it to me. Oh one more thing. They are changing the prop to a lesser pitch. However my guess is that if I am right they will simply finish off the engine unless they check out the thermostat. |
merc1500
Member
Username: merc1500
Post Number: 23
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 06:18 am: |
|
if i had to guess id pull the powerhead apart i mean thats cause by something compressing the crankcase never heard of that before but i would check the basics valves,check valves if any, the crankcase breather i dont know what to say we dont see many of those motors but before i did anything id do anything id do what they said but if it happens again i doubt its the impellar and i dont see how a props pitch could cause any probelms |
merc1500
Member
Username: merc1500
Post Number: 24
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2008 - 06:31 am: |
|
i mean its highly unlikely that the impeller melted in the water now if it was out of water it would melt quick or maybe you picked up a plastic bag restricing the flow but if your runnig along in water i doubt the impeller just melted i beleive you what your saying but it hard to picture it but we had an 8hp come in once that run 10 mins without water and the oil fill plug the threads melted but it stayed so sometimes its better to find out whats its not than it is to figure out what it is. id get a test tank or something it sounds like its getting worse so i dont know if id trust it on the boat |
