| Author |
Message |
    
Jason Murray
New member
Username: murray2104
Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 07:48 pm: | 
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Hi all new to the board so be gentle.
I wanted to pass on a little problem that several of us with 4 strokes are having up here in our neck of the woods.
We are having our motors die after heating up the fuel bulb is overly soft when this happens. I have, as well as others, have been in touch with our local marina who have in turn been in touch with suzuki after being unable to diagnose the problem.
The problem appears to be related to the fuel system and is more pronounced on warm days. It seems that the heat generated from the motor is causing the fuel to be pushed back to the tank. causing it to die. You can pump the bulb extensively and force the fuel back up to the motor and get it running again but it idles very rough and usually dies again. After multiple attempts it usually will stay running.
The local marina has extensively gone thru several motors trying to diagnose this issue and resolve it. Suzuki is involved also trying to remedy the situation. This problem does not appear to be HP specific, my motor is a df140 a good friend of mine is having more extensive problems with his 250ss I have heard of a 90 doing it also.
Merc, and Yammy techs know of this problem as well but as of yet a solution has not been identified. If anyone else is having this issue I would recommend contacting thier dealership and getting in touch with Suzuki.
The problem usually happens after running the motor and then shutting down for 15+ minutes on warm days. I have not noticed this problem during cooler morning runs nor has others that I have talked to.
If there are others with similar problems that may be related I would be interested in hearing about them. My intent with posting this is not product bashing as I believe Suzuki is a great platform but there is definately an issue (as admitted by Suzuki Support Techs) |
Jason Murray
New member
Username: murray2104
Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 07:50 pm: |
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additional note:
several different octane levels and suppliers of the gasoline have been tried it doesn't seem to help. |
david
Member
Username: olmo40
Post Number: 82
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 08:27 pm: |
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if the issue is fuel evaporating in the line ,sometimes an aftermarket fuel pump (electric) can fix it .I have done this fix up on many inboards but never an outboard,I currently run 2 xDF250 with out an issue in a hot climate. |
Jason Murray
New member
Username: murray2104
Post Number: 3
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 11:19 pm: |
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Yeah that may be a route suzuki is going to have to go down (motor is under warranty so I am not changing anything)
It doesn't seem to be every motor like I said it seems that we are getting hit pretty hard up north here. suzuki thinks its the quality of the gas having more alcohol in it if you don't mind me asking what part of the country are you in.
What kind of duty do your motors see are you off shore or running hard and shutting down for a period of time. The problem seems to be associated with longer runs followed by 20-30 minute shutdowns.
I am really not here to throw rocks at Suzuki's and I appreciate any helpful ideas and discussion on this. |
david
Member
Username: olmo40
Post Number: 83
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 12:40 am: |
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Running the motors on a 30 ft cat in Florida.So they see all kind of use from offshore to cruising around the water ways the ,longest i have left them unstarted is 3 weeks ,last week i lost 200rpm off one motor ,ran some starbrite fuel conditioner and problem fixed.Suzuki are great as as company from my dealings with them so im sure they will see you right.In 2001 i owned a 42ft HP inboard with 2 BBC Motors, it did exactly what you decribed from day one Brand New .Extra fuel pumps fixed it ?????. |
Jason Murray
Member
Username: murray2104
Post Number: 4
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 11:58 pm: |
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I have heard Zuki is a good company but I have been getting less than excellent service. We have several several several boats all presenting with the same symptoms now suzuki seems to be not calling my marina back to tell them what they are going to do about it.
does anyone have any phone numbers for customer service I can start calling? I can't believe suzuki would turn their back on a bonified problem the whole reason I went zuki was the great word of mouth about thier customer service. |
ikia
Visitor
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 08:45 am: |
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Well I thought most people knew that the motors are great when they run ( all motors are )but the SUZUKI people are not known to support service. |
lowtide
Visitor
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 09:13 pm: |
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I had the exact same problem with my 2007 DF140. I made several trips to the dealer with them trying logical replacements such as anti syphon valve, fuel line, primer bulb all to no avail. On June 7th, 2008, I returned to the dealer frustrated over this problem that plagued my engine since it was new (boat & motor purchased new in 2007). On this day my dealer informed me that they had two more df140's in with the same problem. Suzuki was contacted by the dealership regarding the problems. Suzuki finally sent there reps who installed an in line fuel pump on July 31, 2008. This was done under warranty. So far I have not experienced any problems with this remedy.
Regarding your post referencing Suzuki not calling your marina back, they did the same thing to my dealer. Look at the time frame it took to get mine fixed. Although, afer my boat sat in the dealer's yard for two weeks after I dropped it off on 6/07/08, and my dealer not getting anywhere with suzuki's warranty dept.,they allowed me to get the boat and use it while waiting on Suzuki.
It's not my intent to bash Suzuki but there customer service or should I say lack of customer service needs to be addressed. It's a shame they appear to make a very good product only to have there product suffer because of there customer service. Having said that, would I buy another Suzuki..probably not.
I hope this post helps. The in line fuel pump appears to be Suzuki's fix for this problem. Good luck with yours. |
david
Member
Username: olmo40
Post Number: 87
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 05:52 am: |
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Fuel evaporation isnt a Suzuki only trait .Id say rare in an outboard ,especially social outboard.It is a common problem in inboard boats, many of the top manufactureres have experienced the problem at one time or another .Most have fixed it under warranty from my experience.The in line fuel pump is anindustry aceptable fix .i dont agree, but it has fixed me 2 times so ,time to grin and bear it and go boating  |
Jason Murray
Member
Username: murray2104
Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 11:38 pm: |
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Lowtide,
This is the exact issue and resolution that suzuki is "sorta" admitting to. What part of the world are you? More specific I am curious about your climate. Have you been able to test this solution on warmer days with longer runs?
The Zuki techs wanted to inline a fuel pump but my dealer thinks this is a band aid and thinks that the design needs to be fixed not patched. As of tonight my dealer is going to withhold his new order of motors until he gets a satisfactory solution. I really have to admit Conrath Valley Marine (ok, plug for a good group of guys) really is digging in on this one and are trying to get it fixed.
Please let me know if you have any further problems. My motor is a 2006 bud didn't start doing this until 8 weeks ago during a tournament. Like I said others are having the same issue with newer motors.
david,
yes fuel evaporation isn't a new suzuki only problem but from what I am hearing several suzuki's are having the exact same issue. Really hope they get in gear and get this fixed this problem almost got me run over last tournament. |
david
Member
Username: olmo40
Post Number: 88
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 12:03 am: |
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Id say take the inline pump.You could imagine how happy i was after buying a brand new well know inboard in 2001 42ft worth , to told the exact same thing ,i didnt believe it could happen ,my first dns was 2hrs offshore ,i wont go on ,but after the fuel pumps never had a problem . |
lowtide
Visitor
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 08:55 am: |
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Jason M,
I live in coastal South Carolina. We experiance daytime temps in the 90's during the summer along with high humidity. I have used the boat numerous times since the inline fuel pump was installed and have had no problems. Incidently, I use artificial baits almost exclusively when fishing. I'm on the trolling motor when doing so. I move from place to place frequently while fishing. My initial run to my fishing grounds is about 7 miles. So while fishing my Suzuki gets started and stopped rather frequently and thus far, I have not had the problem recure.
Regarding, the inline fuel pump being a patch not a fix. I could not agree with you more. As a matter of fact that is what I told my dealer, who agreed. If the problem is a design flaw, it needs to be addressed by Suzuki not covered up with a band-aid, in line fuel pump. I wander how many other brands of outboard motors require an in line fuel pump to operate properly? I'm going out on a limb here, but I would say none.
I'm not thrilled with the inline fuel pump as the "fix". However, I am happy to be able to use the boat and not have the motor constantly shutting down.
If David can be happy with a in line fuel pump on a 42ft boat that he purchased new, I can be happy with one on my 19ft center console....I guess.
If your able to get a solution other than the in line fuel pump, please post it here. |
Jason Murray
Member
Username: murray2104
Post Number: 6
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 - 04:29 pm: |
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Well still working with Suzuki and my dealership. To date Suzuki admits there is a problem and they "are working hard" for a solution. Till they come up with one they "appreciate my good attitude"
Hate to say it but I have had this problem for some time and I think it has really turned me against this product. They expect me to sit and wait.......
I know of at least 2 other new boats doing the same since I started this post. Different boats same suzuki problems |
Rollie Rose
Member
Username: profisher
Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Monday, December 22, 2008 - 10:21 pm: |
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Jason, have had the same issue with a 9.9 4 stroke Yamaha (15 h.p. block model) I worked with my mechanic and friend to isolate the problem...prior to fixing it completely the only thing we did that made somewhat of a difference was going to a 10 degrees celcius cooler thermostat...that told us it was a heat related issue with the fuel pump...vapour locking...the original Yam 9.9 had the same problem so they plumbed that pump with water cooling....I designed a cooler for my 9.9 and the problem went away for good....the shop told the Yam guys about my fix and they told the shop to send them pics and make more for the other customers who were also complaining. My reward...$150.00 in yamabucks to offset the cost of having the part made....for my r & d time...nothing. Rollie |
Eugene Ver Meer
New member
Username: vmchiro
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - 10:43 pm: |
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I live in Colorado and have a Suzuki 90 4 stroke. I purchased the engine in 2005 and began having the same problem of my engine being almost impossible to start after being turned off when the temperature outside was 75 degrees or above. For the first year and a half I tried everything from new anti-siphon value, new fuel lines, new primer bulb, different fuel etc. Finally in 2007 the local Suzuki dealer installed new fuel pump, tried to insulate my fuel line, tried a remote fuel tank but I continued to have the problem of hard start when hot, then running for a few hundred yards and then dying as if I had turned the key off. Then I'd hard start again, go a few hundred yards and it would die again. Finally after working with Suzuki service, they sent out factory reps in August. They worked on the engine for four days after I consistently reproduced the problem for them. They put on a larger 140 horse cowling on the engine and a larger fuel pump which I understood to be a 140 horse fuel pump. I picked the boat up from the dealership after they left and the first hot day out, the problem continued. Suzuki customer service recommended a new vapor separator which they installed at the end of 2007. The first hot day in 2008 the engine failed again and Suzuki agreed to replace the engine with me paying to have the engine switched out. I got my new engine in August 2008 and the first day on the lake over 75 degrees it failed. I have since spoken to the Suzuki dealership in southern Colorado and they stated to me that they knew of a 115 horse Suzuki doing the same thing and they were waiting to hear from Suzuki for a solution. I love the engine when it runs but obviously having these problems every time the temperature is over 75 is unacceptable. If anybody knows of a solution or something else I should try, please let me know. |
Rollie Rose
Member
Username: profisher
Post Number: 52
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2008 - 02:26 am: |
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Find a way to water cool the fuel pump, I'm sure it is vapour locking from heat...it is a problem that crosses different manufacturers and hp models. Some models the manufactures have plumbed with water cooling, why they don't just do them all is a mystery. My cooler is an alimunum block, carved out on the inside and an inlet and outlet hole drilled through the sides. Water is picked up from the tell tale line, goes through the cooler and then carries on to the tell tale outlet. The water makes contact with the outermost piece of the pump and keeps it from getting to warm. Problem solved. Of all the other tings we tried to fix this the only one that made some difference was going to a lower temp thermostat...so the engine ran cooler and transfered less heat to the fuel pump....but it still wasn't a 100% fix. If you are interested I could take a pic of the one on mine and post it. |
Qman
New member
Username: qman
Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 06:54 pm: |
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I have the same issue with 2006 df140. Run the boat in the morning without any issues, stop fish, wants to die out next time getting on plane... most of the time kills. Pump the bulb a bit, struggles to start, then runs fine until I stop to fish again. Located in South Louisiana and only have problems during the summer. Tried many different things to resolve it but never could made a difference. Would love to see the setup you have Rollie Rose. |
Rollie Rose
Advanced Member
Username: profisher
Post Number: 165
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 12:18 am: |
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I'll take a pic and post. The pump on th 9.9 is made of 3 pieces...a hard plastic type first piece that makes contact with the valve cover, followed by an aluminum mid section and finally the thin aluminum cover. There are 4 screws that hold the 3 pieces together like a sandwich. All I did was make another layer in the sandwhich, another aluminum block that with longer (4) screws lays on top of the thin cover. It is sealed by silcone to the cover. The block as thick as I could make it and still get the engine cover to latch close. A hole is drilled thru the side of the block, tapped for threads for brass nipples and the inside of the block is carved out to allow water to make contact with as large a surface area of the pump cover as possible. Cooling it. Plumb in the tell tale water and its done for good. Every pump is different, not sure is the Susuki pump will allow this method or not. You may get away with bending some copper tube back and forth and have it make contact with the pump..run the cold water thru the tube...just ideas...trick is to get water on that pump. |
Qman
Member
Username: qman
Post Number: 5
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 09:00 am: |
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Lowtide,
Where did they add the fuel pump within the sequence of filters and pumps?
|
Rollie Rose
Advanced Member
Username: profisher
Post Number: 174
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 04:28 pm: |
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Here its is guys |
Rollie Rose
Advanced Member
Username: profisher
Post Number: 175
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 04:32 pm: |
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Another angle |
Qman
Member
Username: qman
Post Number: 6
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 12:10 am: |
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Nice, started me thinking about the possiblity of using a heat sink from a computer CPU. |
Jason Murray
Member
Username: murray2104
Post Number: 7
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 01:18 am: |
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Well I am still getting the run around, the marina is saying their hands are tied until suzuki gets back to them. I don't get it, I paid for a new boat with an extended warranty and now everyone is giving me the "so sorry" excuses, excuses. Mean time I am stuck with a boat that dies on warm days.
So I ask you all, really what does the warranty mean? The way I see it the motor doesn't work, the manf. admits there is a problem, the marina admits there is a problem and yet I am still stuck. Excuses are wearing thin. Love the Aluminum block idea and will pass it on to my marina who will in turn pass it on to suzuki & Ill still be stuck. Wouldn't doubt if I did something like this on my own they'd be the first to void the warranty neither one will honor......sorry had to vent getting frustrated.
Jason. |
Eugene Ver Meer
New member
Username: vmchiro
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 07:52 pm: |
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Hi Jason, I can feel your frustrations. As you can tell from my previous post, I have dealt with this problem since 2005. Fortunately my dealership here in Denver has been great to me and done everything they could think of to resolve the problem. Recently I have heard that Starbrite StarTron Enzyme Fuel Treatment may help with the negative affects of ethenol fuel. I plan on trying this but won't know if it helps until the temperature gets above 75. I know that if I could get pure gas with no ethenol, I would, as I think the ethenol worsens our problem. I have read on the internet that Yamaha had this problem and came up with a vapor reclaimer that cost $500 if you were unlucky enough to be out of warranty. It is my understanding that Mercury has addressed this problem on some engines by putting the fuel pump in the lower unit for cooling purposes. Hopefully Suzuki will come up with a solution soon. It seems like more and more people are posting this problem who have the 90, 115, and 140 engines. I plan on continuing to try various things to solve the problem and if I come up with a solution I'll post it immediately. Please do the same. Gene |
David
New member
Username: captain_cook
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 08:26 am: |
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My motor started doing this at the end of last summer when E-10 started flowing in S. Miss area. Once motor is good and hot will not start unless I use the fast idle control. Suzuki has said it happens sometimes but they don't know why. I think they know! My first 400 hours were trouble free. Motor runs great once it starts. |
David
New member
Username: captain_cook
Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 08:27 am: |
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Motor is a DF 115 2005 450 hours. |
Eugene Ver Meer
New member
Username: vmchiro
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Monday, March 09, 2009 - 07:42 pm: |
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David if I were you I would never use
e-10 fuel,that would probably solve the problem for you. |
David
New member
Username: captain_cook
Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 08:34 am: |
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I wish it were that easy, seems that the blend stock may contain up to 10% at the pump. The labels read "Ethanol enhanced" what a pile of #. |
Eugene Ver Meer
Member
Username: vmchiro
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 10:21 am: |
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I have the same problem here in Denver. I have found one station in the whole city that has carried pure gas in the past but they aren't sure the EPA will allow them to have it this year, they hope to find out soon. The classic car people are angry too cause the have problems with vapor lock with ethanol as well. I have replaced everything from the pick-up tube to the fuel pump and the engine still won't start after I run it to a spot on the lake and let it stand for 30 minutes or so and try to restart. It will if the temp outside is below 75-80 but not if its above 80 degrees. After it finally starts it goes a couple hundred yards and stops like someone turned off the key. My dealer is continuing to work with me to find a solution. If I find one I will post. |
David
Member
Username: captain_cook
Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 - 04:26 pm: |
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Thanks Eugene, I love the motor except for the starting issue. I guess I better send my Tow Boat check in. |
Qman
Member
Username: qman
Post Number: 9
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Friday, March 13, 2009 - 08:11 am: |
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Spoke with the local dealer and they were going to put an additional fuel pump in-line to solve the problem. They have done this in the past and it fixed the issue. When they contacted Suzuki to get authorization, Suzuki came back that they are working on a fix and should have it soon. Not sure how long soon will be he was confident that Suzuki will take care of the issue.
Hope it happens before it gets too hot. |
Rollie Rose
Advanced Member
Username: profisher
Post Number: 411
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 09:32 pm: |
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Just getting this to the top of the topics list so it will help someone else |
JUST-IN-TIME
Senior Member
Username: justintime
Post Number: 6683
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 12:19 am: |
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rollie
that is why we have a search button |
Jeff Good
New member
Username: goodx2
Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 08:39 am: |
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I've had this same problem for years with a 2004 DF140. I can tell you that straight gas won't solve the problem. I have an inline fuel filter and a inline fuel meter which probably don't help matters. I did try running out of a 5 gallon tank of gas I set right by the motor and I could not get the motor to fail. |
Jeff Good
New member
Username: goodx2
Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 11:58 am: |
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I just got off the phone with Suzuki service support. They indicated that they are aware of the problem and a fix is in the works. They also said there may not be a charge for the fix once it is released to dealers... regardless of the age of the engine. |
Jason Murray
Member
Username: murray2104
Post Number: 8
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 12:29 pm: |
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Suzuki has been saying this at least to me since june of last year. I am not holding my breath I am punting as soon as I can swing it. zuki can keep their motors its soured me on the whole thing with them. First brand new boat and nothing but problems. |
ROBERT P MOSTOWSKI
Member
Username: superpole727
Post Number: 31
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 02:47 pm: |
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I have been running a Suzuki DF225TXK4 here in largo fl with no problems. We fish and dive year round. I'll chk to see what service bullitens have been posted if any. Not sure why so many of you having the problem. It seems to be getting worse.
I do know Ethanol is not helping with vapor lock, and I have seen a steady increase in Ethanol related failures and issues. Mostly rubber related products although I have seen it swell the nylon bushings on the Yamaha electric lift pumps.
Here are a few things some of you posters with DF140's and other engines can try.
1: Make sure the water cooling lines leading to the fuel cooler actually work they can become clogged or kinked. Don't forget to chk the fuel cooler it's self. Water in water out.
2: Use the proper size fuel delivery hose 5/16 min between enigne and filter 3/8 min between tank and filter. 3/8 is better even though you will have to reduce it down at the enigne.
3:Try insulating the fuel cooler from engine heat. Cover with some heat insulating material keeps the the body of the fuel cooler cooler. Good job Rollie Rose. I love it. Necessity is the mother of invention.
4:Chk your low pressure lift pump to make sure the ethanol hasn't ruined the rubber chk valves. Put a vaucumn gauge on the suction side of the fuel pump your looking for at least 7-10 inch's of vacumn while cranking the engine. I have had several of these pumps with bad chk valves thanks to Ethanol. Hard starting complaint.
5:You can also try a new product out called Sentry Gas plus. I witnessed the demostration compareing all the other products at the same time only the Sentry worked.
As stated by other members is not just a Suzuki related problem. |
Jeff Good
New member
Username: goodx2
Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 04:22 pm: |
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FYI.... No fuel cooler on a 2004 DF140. May be why you aren't having a problem.... |
ROBERT P MOSTOWSKI
Member
Username: superpole727
Post Number: 32
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 05:57 pm: |
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Hi Jeff
I'm sorry my reply was aimed at that entire post. I realize that all models don't have fuel coolers and I know I don't have a DF140. The bottom line is Ethanol is the root cause of this problem. In the mean time be creative and maybe you will find the cure. Look at what Rollie Rose did on his fuel pump. Suzuki is working on the problem just not fast enough. They will have a cure for the DF140's. When I don't know will it work for all models I don't know that either.
I think they need a switch that will open and close the venting system on the VST. The DFV6 uses this same system. This would prevent the presuure build up when the engine is shut off. Ethanol based fuel boils at a lower temperature. Vapor Lock.
I know it's a pain in the rear but have you tried repriming the system before you start the engine every time. When we had two strokes we had to do this all the time. |
Jeff Good
Member
Username: goodx2
Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 07:13 pm: |
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Hey Robert,
I've been able to work around this problem by priming the line with the bulb... or staying on idle until the fuel meter indicates it is drawing gas to the vapor separator... But just recently, as the water and weather get warmer, I've actually had to throttle back as the engine is not getting adequate fuel... it starts cutting out. Once or twice a week I run 80 to 100 miles for fishing in the Gulf... Also I am running straight (fresh) gas with an additive and all my filters are good... The engine just has an issue... |
ROBERT P MOSTOWSKI
Member
Username: superpole727
Post Number: 33
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 09:28 pm: |
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I understand Jeff and yes you are correct the engine dose have a issue. Suzuki knows it and will hopefully have a cure for it soon. If I hear of anything I will post it here first. |
Jason Murray
Member
Username: murray2104
Post Number: 9
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 - 05:35 pm: |
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Well got off the phone again with Suzuki (weekly calls now) and asked for an update on the "fix" for my DF140 and at least some sort of idea on when it will be available. Their response was "at this time we (suzuki) have no anticipated delivery date available" He did however understand my frustration which was nice.
Decided I can't really sell the thing and do the same thing to someone else, so here we sit waiting.
Oh yeah my engine cut out last Sunday causing a boat/shore collision after loosing positive thrust in the middle of a turn. Priceless
P.S. I am not sure I would agree that the ethanol is the complete cause here. If it were why would all other models not have this specific problem. I believe it is a design flaw exagerated by ethanol. suppose thats splitting hairs though.
Suzuki has a lemon on their hands and they need to be buying these things back. IMHO
I hope just one person sees this string and hopefully it helps them avoid this kind of headache. |
Mike Nakai
Member
Username: mgn_wp
Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 01:01 pm: |
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Wow, glad I read this. I was considering buying a used boat in Denver with a 2002 DF140.
Jason/Eugene - which dealers in CO did you work with?
Thanks
Mike |
Jason Murray
Member
Username: murray2104
Post Number: 10
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 03:37 pm: |
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Mike,
Im glad you read it too. I am located in Washington State.
The facts of my situation are Suzuki admits there is a problem with that series of motors. They admit it shows up in newer and older model years.
They admit that not all the motors in that series are doing it.
They admit as of yet they can not replicate it with any consistancy.
They admit R&D Corprorate is being less than helpful.
They are going to "try" an inline fuel pump that may or may not fix my motor.
Suzuki has no anticipated timeline for parts that may or may not fix my boat.
My motor has had this problem for over a year.
My dealership sais their hands are tied and that I should be dealing with Suzuki directly.
I have been calling Suzuki almost weekly now for the better part of that year.
Suzuki has no plans to make it right by replacing my motor.
I am stuck with a motor on a boat that I can't trade in or sell.
They do appreciate my good attitude while they work thru this minor technical problem.
***************************************
Mike you couldn't pay me to buy another DF140 but hey maybe they one you are looking at will be different
Hope this helps clear up any questions you might have.
Jason |
JUST-IN-TIME
Senior Member
Username: justintime
Post Number: 6886
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 04:27 pm: |
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OUCH!!!
that is why YAMAHA is number #1 worldwide again!! |
ROBERT P MOSTOWSKI
Advanced Member
Username: superpole727
Post Number: 145
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 05:30 pm: |
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YEAH RIGHT. |
JUST-IN-TIME
Senior Member
Username: justintime
Post Number: 6887
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 05:39 pm: |
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HA
i know, i know
only motor that has giving me problems are the carbed honda's!! |
Rollie Rose
Advanced Member
Username: profisher
Post Number: 514
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 12:04 am: |
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When buying ANY new outboard ask the dealer...are the fuel pumps water cooled or not. If manufactures notice that those models without the coolers aren't selling you won't have to call them weakly to fix the problem. |
Randy Vandiford
New member
Username: rlv93
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 01:40 pm: |
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ive got a 2005 140hp jhonson 4s with the same issues. |
David
Member
Username: captain_cook
Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 03:34 pm: |
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As Jason noted about this problem.
They admit as of yet they can not replicate it with any consistancy
I agree with that. For fun I replaced my Seirra Gas filter with a Racor a few weeks back. So far the motor has not acted up. At 500 hours I will drive it till its dead, I'm sure for many years. But I don't think I will buy Suzuki again. The service just is not here, at least in my area. |
Eugene Ver Meer
Member
Username: vmchiro
Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 02:35 pm: |
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Mike, I have a friend who has a Suzuki 140 four stroke and has no problems that I am aware of, but I am sure that it is pre-2003. The dealer in Denver that has been very good and helpful to me is Aurora Marine. Hope this answers your questions. |
Dennis Wysocki
New member
Username: floridadennis
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 01:17 pm: |
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I have a suzuki 70 4 stroke & have the exact same cut out problem. I live in central florida and have a 16 ft flats boat. Drive to my fishing area, turn off motor, troll around fishing for a while, try to go to next spot and suzuki cuts out trying to get up on plane. Takes a long time to restart then runs rough. Had it into the dealer 3 times but cant seem to fix problem. Any new news on this issue. I am taking my boat in on tuesday for them to look at again. |
Qman
Member
Username: qman
Post Number: 10
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 08:42 am: |
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Used Starbrite's ethonal treatment.. think it is Startron. Seemed to decrease the problem with the engine. Went out last week and it only acted up one time and the temperature outside was in the upper 80's. Stabil has relased some ethonal treatment also, bought some and will try that next. |
Bryan Leach
New member
Username: kingfisherman
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 03:58 pm: |
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Have had a Suzuki DF 90 for three years (great engine)without issue.
This weekend had similar problem to others..It was hot and the lake temp 73 degrees... Later worked on river just fine with 55 degree water and later evening. |
Bryan Leach
New member
Username: kingfisherman
Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 04:01 pm: |
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Dealer mentioned non-marine grade fuel lines (one with clear inner tubing). May collapse etc under heat or deteriate with fuels. Will check but seems "heat" is an issue. |
Glenn Thompson
New member
Username: k9dusty
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 11:38 am: |
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I thought I was going crazy with the same problem you guys are having. I run an 05 115hp Suzuki 4 stroke. Some of you have installed in-line full pumps that has solved the problem.
1. Where did you install the pump? (before/after the primer bulb)
2. What typr/brand did you use.
3. Were you worried about to much pressure?
thanks for the help and maybe Suzuki will fix the issue soon. |
Qman
Member
Username: qman
Post Number: 11
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 10:04 pm: |
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Well scratch the Starbrite/Startron and Sta-bil ethonal treatments. Didn't seem to make a difference. Still nothing from Suzuki! |
Jason Murray
Member
Username: murray2104
Post Number: 11
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 10:21 am: |
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Well it looks like I have a solution for my motor. Last week suzuki sent a TSM to work on my boat. They added a secondary inline fuel pump, my boat was either the 3rd or the 5th in the US to have this done by the factory. Now it seems that Suzuki is convinced this is the right fix and are going to manufactur their own parts rather than use an outside vendor. I havent heard the expected timeline for parts/kits to be available.
I ran my boat last weekend with near 100° temps without a problem. Finaly a year and a half later it seems that it is resolved.
Only thing I can recommend is call suzuki's help line get one persons name that is going to deal with your issue and call them as close to weekly as you can. Thats what I had to do. |
Jon Sheeler
New member
Username: jonkayak
Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 07:42 pm: |
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I'm glade they have decided to fix your motor. I have the same problem with my boat and am currently butting heads with Suzuki to get it fixed before the summers over. |
Eugene Ver Meer
Member
Username: vmchiro
Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 10:03 pm: |
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I have been fighting this problem since 2005 with a Suzuki 90 4-stroke. As stated previously my engine was replaced approx. a year ago. Suzuki provided the engine and I paid for the labor for the switch. However the new engine failed to start after I would reach operating temperature and shut it off for 30 minutes on the lake, at 80 degrees outside temperature. After reading Jason's post, I called my dealer and informed them that there was a solution posted for a 140 HP with a similar problem. They told me to contact Suzuki and line up the "fix". Customer service at Suzuki told me that there was no problem with the 90 HP 4-stroke engines. I informed them that they had already replaced my previous 90 with the same problem after the Suzuki techs could not resolve my problem. The customer service lady told me that since Suzuki could not fix my first engine and they had replaced it, I was out of luck--on my own. She told me they sold my old replaced engine to someone in Oregon and it works fine. That's great for them, but doesn't help me in Colorado. The Suzuki rep actually told me to just sell my Alumacraft boat and get rid of it, because they supposedly did the fix on my old engine and it did not fix the problem. Am I expecting too much to ask for an engine that will run in Colorado over 80 degrees?? Are there other people out there who are having this problem with their 90 HPs? They act like I'm the only one. |
Jon Sheeler
Member
Username: jonkayak
Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 08:50 am: |
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Well Suzuki has decided to install an inline pump on my boat as well. The only thing they can tell me is that it will be "several months" until they can get around to doing it. I asked them to just give a date any date as to when they will be here and their response was that they can not do that cause it is not their "priority" to have a service tech tide up for a full day on one boat, so they "will get to it when they get to it." Suzuki's customer service is junk and I'll will never buy another Suzuki. Also I asked about them installing another motor and his response was it wouldn't do me any good as all the new motors have the problem also and that for most of the motor "it's not a mater of if but when it will occur with them also".
Jason were did they mount this inline pump cause I only have two places that they could mount one. The 1st being on the rear deck (will not happen) the second being inside a non vented bilge area. If they want to mount it there according to USGC regs they would have to put in a vent system which means they would have to cut more holes in my boat. My boats brand new and I'm not sure that cutting random holes wouldn't void my warranty. |
Jason Murray
Member
Username: murray2104
Post Number: 12
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 12:20 pm: |
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Jon I sent you and email. |
Jared Stemple
New member
Username: spinnerb8
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, August 23, 2009 - 01:36 pm: |
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Wow! I am sure glad that I found this discussion board. I am having all the same problems with a carb. 115 Mercury. It starts and runs great as long as it is nice and cool out. Starts and stalls when it is hot out. The local dealer tells me we are importing cheaper gas now (15% ethanol) I believe, and this makes the fuel in the lines evaporate in high temps.. He says that Obama is trying to get fuel with 30% ethanol imported and if this happens our motors will really have trouble.......But anyways, can you guys tell me if an inline fuel pump would help my Mercury as much as it seems to be helping the Suzukis? Has anybody had any luck insulating the exposed fuel lines? Thanks |
Sean
Member
Username: r_ventura_23
Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - 01:52 pm: |
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Guys. I am having the same problem! I have a 2003 Suzuki 115 4-stroke. I run out to the ocean which takes about 45 minutes, turn off the boat to fish, and when I go to start it 10 minutes late it won't turn over. After waiting about 20 more minutes it will finally start. Due to the excessive "trying to start" the motor I ended up needing my ignition replaced. I have tried using Startron, and changed the fuel/water separator and nothing. The engine runs great, and long as I don't have to start it when it is hot.
Has anyone had any luck with Suzuki on a fix? |
Jon Sheeler
Member
Username: jonkayak
Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 04:14 pm: |
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Well About a month ago my dealer called and said Suzuki was finally coming to install an inline fuel pump on the 10th of September. A few days before the 10th of September I called to make sure everything was good to go. Well as luck would have it Suzuki canceled and would not give another date for the repair.
So skip ahead to this past Tuesday and my dealer called and told me that Suzuki would be in next Wed or Thur to fix my boat. So I go to drop my boat off today since I'll be out of town for part of next week only for them to tell me that it is being rescheduled again! This time it's not because they don't have the fix but something about me complaining to much! Suzuki's customer service is the worst! Oh well back to the waiting game. |
Jason Murray
Member
Username: murray2104
Post Number: 13
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 04:22 pm: |
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Jon,
Man I really feel your pain if it's any consolation the inline pump seems to be working on my boat. I really hope this thread helps anyone thinking about buying a suzuki product make up thier mind about how "wonderful" they are to work with. |
Jon Sheeler
Member
Username: jonkayak
Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 05:21 pm: |
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Jason,
I hear you. I personally like the motor when it's running but I would never go this route again. The lack of customer service is not worth the $900 saving I got over the other motor I could have bought. |
Free Spirit
Member
Username: lljc1949
Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 07, 2009 - 08:29 am: |
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If all you guys would run the motor at idle after a run to let it cool down it might help. The next is to check the low pressure pump to make sure it is working properly since ethonal does attack the check valves & diaghpram. If the check valve is leaking all the vapor is pushed back through the filters & back to the tank. The inlet fuel line on DF90/115/140 comes in through the cover & runs behind the intake manifold and has a cover on it. Make shure it is routed correctly. Take hose off fuel rail cooler & blow compressed air to check if not cloged. Run engine with hoses off & muffs on water pick up check that there is water flow. If motors are not flushed properly these small hose wiil clog. I am a dealer in south Florida & I have not had any of these problems.There are cooler hose for front of engine to cool oil & block which should also be checked with same procedure. The suzuki manual has all the routing for all hoses in manual. larry@powercatsofmiami.com |
Free Spirit
Member
Username: lljc1949
Post Number: 11
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 07, 2009 - 08:31 am: |
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Ps Marthon gas stations sells gas with no ethonal here in south florida on land & all marinas sell gas with no ethanol |
Qman
Member
Username: qman
Post Number: 12
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 09:15 pm: |
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suzuki Tech came to the local dealer and worked on my boat and 3 others last week. They relocated the low pressure fuel filter, put a larger low pressure filter and rerouted the fuel line on all 4 boats. All 4 boats still have the same problem. |
Jon Sheeler
Member
Username: jonkayak
Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - 05:27 pm: |
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I wonder how much money Suzuki is going to waste and how many people they are willing to anger before they suck it up and just start putting on external fuel pumps like they did for Jason?
Qman were are you located? They were suppose to come and do some work on my boat but they put me off and instead they told me they were headed somewhere else. |
Qman
Member
Username: qman
Post Number: 13
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 10:44 am: |
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New Orleans.
Appears that it is like Rollie Rose stated a while back, a source of heat is coming from the LP fuel pump. With a clear fuel line you can see vapor start to form at the pump. The pump is driven by a steel rod that rides on the cam. The heat appears to transfer through that rod into the pump and vaporizes the fuel.
Seems like a larger Vapor chamber that would hold more fuel for the HP pump would allow for the LP pump to work through the vapor that is created at the LP pump could solve the issue. Reason I say this is that I never have an issue if I just idel after a restart. Must give the LP pump time to catch up. The engine will run on the fuel that is in the vapor chamber for the HP pump. Just when getting on plane and running 4k rpms, it must use all available fuel in the vapor chamber and hit the pocket of vapor created by the LP pump.
It was also explained to me that there is a needle valve in the vapor chamber and it closes when the engine is not running. Guess this is what prevents us from being able to use the primer bulb to push out the vapor.
Was thinking about creating a cooler for the LP pump like Rollie Rose did, but the Suzuki has a plastic casing for the LP pump. Concerned that the heat is inside around the pump actuator and not sure how well the heat would transfer from the plastic to a cooler. Also there is only about 1 inch between the LP pump and the motor cover on a DF140.
Just putting some of my thoughts out. Been trying to do as much research on the issue as possible. Many things have had this type of problem, just wish Suzuki was more committed to solving the issue. |
Eugene Ver Meer
Member
Username: vmchiro
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 11:29 am: |
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As you can see from my previous posts, I have been dealing with this problem since my previous 2004 engine, 90 four stroke. The new engine does the same thing even though Suzuki tells me that they don't have the problem with their 90's. What I have done this summer that seems to help are these three things. 1-I found one gas station in Denver that sells non-ethanol gas that I used this summer. 2-I have used the Starbrite product previously mentioned on this site. 3-Once I run across the lake to my destination and shut the engine off, I pump my bulb until I build up enough pressure to make the bulb very firm. My thought with this process is that if fuel is vaporizing off at the pump, I'm building up enough pressure to not allow it to develop a vapor lock at the pump. So far in the temperatures above 80 this summer this has seemed to work, where previously it would predictably fail. You have to pump the bulb immediately after you shut the engine off, not waiting until you want to start the engine again. That doesn't work (I've tried it). I don't think you can get passed the vapor lock then. If someone else tries this procedure and it works for them also, I'd like to know. |
