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| 1999 Honda BF130 Hesitating During Qu... |
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Ben Vallejos
New member
Username: benedict
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, November 05, 2009 - 01:24 am: | 
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Hi all. My outboard has been intermittently "sputtering" the past few outings, so I changed the plugs and the fuel/water separator filter between the tank motor.
Now, the engine runs totally fine, except when I give it full throttle out of the hole. When I quickly give it gas, the motor sputters immediately and sometimes dies. However, if I slowly give it gas, it runs fine all the way up to top speed. It also idles fine and it cruises well at all speeds.
Oh, when I took off the old filter and drained out the gas into a cup, there were quite a few brown particles. Could that be a problem?
I took it to my local dealer and showed him the gas and particles. He called me and told me that I needed to replace the injectiors and all filters and "clean" the system, and that I would have to replace/repair the gas tank.
I don't really want to pay the $1800 the dealer wants to charge to fix this, so can anyone reccommend something "simple" I can do myself? I'm new to boating and I feel like the dealer is trying to take advantage of me.
Any advice will be helpful. Thanks. |
mike
Advanced Member
Username: hondadude
Post Number: 229
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 12:11 am: |
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First, you should pump a sample of your fuel before it gets to the filter, into a glass jar and see what it looks like. Any debris or water in it?
It sounds like it would be an excellant idea to change the low and high pressure filters. That is something that you can do yourself. The filters are both on the starboard side of the engine. It would be helpful to have a shop manual to show you how to change the high pressure filter. You can purchase one at this Honda web site http://www.helminc.com/helm/Result.asp?session=328EA1F984324C64A5E5C626157C55A0& Style=helm&Mfg=AHP&Make=MAR&Model=OUTB&Year=&Category=1&Keyword=&Module=&selecte d%5Fmedia=
When you change the high pressure filter, you can check the inside of the vapor separator and make sure there is not accumulated debris in there.
You may want to ask them why they think the injectors have to be changed. It is not difficult to do that, but use the manual if you want to pursue it yourself.
Before changing the injectors, you may want to pump your tank. Put it in your car if it looks ok...and refill with good fresh fuel.
It would be helpful to also use some sort of fuel additive like Sea Foam or Quick Kleen and run it with each tank full to help clean the injectors and other fuel related items.
I have seen a 130 come in that just quit while running. It turned out to be the fuel was of such poor quality, the motor just would not run. Once the tank was pumped and fresh fuel added, it ran great. The 130's are picky that way.
If changing fuel and fuel filters and running with fuel treatment for a while, does not fix the problem, then cleaning or changing the injectors may be necessary.
The dealer probably quoted you worst case so the boat would run correctly when it left, rather than nickel and diming you with a low ball quote then continually coming back to you with additional work that has to be done. |
Ben Vallejos
New member
Username: benedict
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2009
| | Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 01:34 am: |
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I just peeked inside the gas tank and it looked fine to me. I did not see any debris or sludge that others have mentioned.
When I took apart the "first" filter (is this the high or low?) and dumped out the fuel, there was definitely debris in it. It was black and looked like it might be peices from a hose or a gasket. Should I change all the fuel lines to the motor?
This weekend, I am going to pump all the existing fuel and then use some of the additives you reccommended.
Thanks for your help with this. I'll keep you posted on the results.
Oh, one more thing. When I squeeze the fuel primer bulb to prime the line, the bulb never really gets "hard" no matter how many times I squeeze it. Could this be the problem? The primer on my 2004 Yamaha 50HP Four Stroke always got hard after a few squeezes (I know, stop giggling) . |
JUST-IN-TIME
Senior Member
Username: justintime
Post Number: 7000
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 02:58 am: |
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Yes primer bulb could be letting air in |
mike
Advanced Member
Username: hondadude
Post Number: 230
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 11:38 am: |
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The debris probably is fuel line or even part of your squeeze bulb coming apart from inside. It would be wise to replace them all.
One of the check valves could be bad on your squeeze bulb, thus the bulb does not get hard.
A quick test for this is to pinch the fuse hose between the bulb and the engine (so no fuel can get through)...then squeeze the bulb. If it does not get hard after a couple of squeezes then the bulb is bad. If it gets hard, there could be a leak between the bulb and the engine or there may be a problem inside the vapor separator with the float valve sticking open.
The valve is #1...
#38 is the high pressure filter
The first filter that you asked about in your post is the low pressure filter |
Sean Gilligan
Member
Username: equinox
Post Number: 22
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 01:15 pm: |
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Ben,
I own a '98 BF 130A, and experience the same issue.
Every two years I replace all fuel lines, including the fuel line assembly (with primer bulb).
Every Spring I replace all fuel filters -- external (RACOR), low pressure and in-line. My model is a VST and does not have the high pressure filter.
Each Fall, when I winterize the engine, I drain the vapor seperator.
Each Spring I siphon all fuel from the tank (which goes into my SUV) and replace it with fresh gas. I also check the fuel pick-up line at this time.
In 2005 I replaced my 60 gallon aluminum fuel tank. In hindsight I probably didn't need to. My (former) yard took advantage of me as a new used boat owner. (You can sheer a sheep twice a year, but only slaughter it once.)
Despite all of this my engine still coughs or stalls when I accelerate too quickly from idle.
I have not cleaned my injectors, but will try Sea Foam/Quick Kleen in the Spring.
It sounds like you have sediment in your fuel. Replacing all fuel liens, filters and fuel should resolve this problem, and it is not expensive or time consuming.
My only other thought are the valves. How many hours do you have on the engine? I'm on the cusp of 400. In the Spring my (new) yard will examine and the adjust the valves as suggested in the Honda Manual.
Let us know what works for you.
Sean |
mike
Advanced Member
Username: hondadude
Post Number: 231
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 09:05 pm: |
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Ben,
You must have a very unique 130A. I have never seen one without a high pressure fuel filter.
The original 130 fuel system had the high pressure fuel pump located outside and below the vst. The high pressure filter was a black cylinder (approx 2 inches in diameter and 2 -3 inches long) located just to the left of the vst and connected to the high pressure pump wia a hard metal fuel line.
The updated fuel system has a paper high pressure filter inside the end of the vst.
Did you purchase it outside the country? |
Ben Vallejos
New member
Username: benedict
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2009
| | Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 11:37 pm: |
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Thanks to all for the advice.
Tomorrow, I am going to replace all of the fuel lines and primer bulb (never got hard when I pinched the line). Also, I'll clean out the low pressure filter (what's the next filter immediately after this one?) and I'm going to attach the fuel lines to a clean auxilliary tank with new fuel with Quickleen additive.
I'll take it for a test run on Sunday and let everyone know how it goes.
As for the float valve sticking open, I'm not sure I can take on that portion without a shop manual and specific directions. I may need to invest in one.
I purchased the boat 3 months ago and the dealer I bought it from said there was only 152 hours on the motor. Is there any way to verify the hours with my 1999 motor? Between chasing albacore and yellowfin, and now lobster hoopnetting, I've probaly added 100 additional hours. Is it time to examine and adjust the valves?
Mike - Sean is the one who mentioned not having a high pressure filter. I don't know if mine does or not. The boat was built in Washington so I doubt it is an overseas motor. The serial numbers are BZBE-1005...should I have one? What does the vst do?
Finally, are Racor fuel filters/water separators filters better than then the Siera filter I currently have?
Again, I'm a newbie, so thanks for everyone's help.
Ben |
mike
Advanced Member
Username: hondadude
Post Number: 232
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 07:43 pm: |
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It looks like a bad bulb for sure. It may not be the cause of your problem, but it is a problem.
There is no way to check the hours unless you have an hourmeter in the system. The hours can be read on any of the other fuel injected Hondas with an HDS (handheld computer). Unfortunately, not the 130.
My response was to Sean. I am willing to bet (as much as 25 cents), he has a high pressure filter. If you give me your full serial number, I can look yours up. All of the 130's should have been updated to the new fuel system by now. Yours should look like the picture in the pdf on one of my previous posts.
You asked about the vst. In short...the vst acts as a resevoir for fuel for the high pressure fuel pump...so it always has a good supply...among of few other things. When you squeeze the bulb, the fuel goes through your Sierra Filter, a water separator(near the low pressure filter), low pressure filter, low pressure fuel pump to the vst. Once the vst is full, the float (like a float in carburator) closes the float valve and stops the flow of fuel...that is when the bulb gets hard.
I am not sure if the filtering is any better, I would have to compare the specs. One advantage of the Racor is the sight glass in it allows you to see if there is any water in it, and allows you to drain the water without taking the filter off. Since you can not see if there is any water in your filter, it would be good to change your filter more than once a season.
Be sure to get on the Honda-Marine web site and update the registration of the motor into your name. Your motor was in a production series that have experienced some issues with cracks in the block. Look inside your engine cover...if it has been inspected, there would be a a note that says "block inspection" and the date...as long as the tech did what he was supposed to do. That is also about the time when the fuel system would have been updated.
The main reason for me telling you to update the motor warranty into your name is there is a 10 year warranty for problems caused by these cracks if they appear in the future This specific warranty is passed on to supsequent owners. |
mike
Advanced Member
Username: hondadude
Post Number: 234
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, November 07, 2009 - 09:34 pm: |
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Hopefully your problem has gone away. If not there are a few other things to check.
1. A clogged vst vent filter. It is the vertically positioned filter that is just above the vst.
2. A faulty fuel pressure regulator
3. A clogged PCV valve. Yes, this motor has a PCV valve located on the top of the engine, starboard side. You may have to take the timing belt cover off to get to it.
If you have to get into checking fuel pressure regulator you will need a fuel pressure gauge. It will also help to have that Honda Manual.
All the above assumes that the prop is the correct size prop and you are getting about 5500 to 6000 rpm at full throttle. If not, part of the bogging problem could be an incorrectly sized prop. |
Sean Gilligan
Member
Username: equinox
Post Number: 23
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 06:14 pm: |
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My engine's serial number is BEBE-1004366.
I checked the supplement to the Honda Manual. I don't have a high pressure filter, but I do have a fuel strainer/high pressure side. It is just forward of the VST. I have not changed the fuel strainer. The manual says to change the strainer every 2 years or 400 hours. My boat has been winterized, so I'll have to wait until the Spring. |
mike
Advanced Member
Username: hondadude
Post Number: 235
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, November 08, 2009 - 06:21 pm: |
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Sean,
The parts manual calls it a strainer but that is the high pressure filter that I was referring to. It is a small paper type filter and easy to change. |
Sean Gilligan
Member
Username: equinox
Post Number: 24
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 09:31 am: |
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Mike,
The strainer I have looks a lot easier to change than the high pressure filter on the other model.
I have never checked the VST vent filter. I'll put that on my Spring list as well.
What happens if after performing all of the service and replacing various lines, filters and parts nothing changes? The motor still coughs or stalls coming out of the hole at high rpms. I have lived with it for at least two years, and there is no material difference in performance. The engine is economical with gas, and at WOT I hit 5,700 rpm/40 mph. Is the problem slowly causing long term damage, or accelerating the motor's end?
Sean |
mike
Advanced Member
Username: hondadude
Post Number: 236
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Monday, November 09, 2009 - 10:23 am: |
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Sean,
You have to go back to basics..
Are there any codes?
Is the oil fresh and at the correct level?
The idle air control has small screens in it that may need to be cleaned out.
The throttle body should be cleaned out.
The initial setting of the iac should be checked.
Then many questions need to be answered...
Is the fuel new and good?
Are the spark plugs good?
How is the compression?
How are the valve clearances?
How is the temperature of the motor? Is the motor getting to proper temperature.
Is any particular cylinder having a problem?
Is the problem spark or fuel related?
For example...if the temperature of the engine is not right, the timing, idle air control, and injectors may not respond the way they should.
Are all the breather passages clear or has some critter built a nest in one or is a hose pinched?
what is going on with the fuel pressure when you try to accelerate?
If the trouble is fuel...has the entire fuel system on the engine been flushed?
A good test for the fuel system on the boat would be to use a separate 6 gallon fuel tank to run the tests.
It may come down to new injectors, but there are a lot of things to check first.
One of the sensors could be near or outside its limits. This engine does not have that many sensors
The Honda Service manual has a couple of different trouble shooting charts to go through that could help.
I may be missing some obvious other things, but this is what I can think of off the top of my head. |
Ben Vallejos
Member
Username: benedict
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 03:19 am: |
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OK, here's an update. I changed the plugs, fuel filter/separator, fuel hoses and primer bulb. I attached a clean auxiliary fuel tank with fresh gas with Quickcleen addiditive. I went out lobster fishing on Sunday night and the motor ran pretty good, but it still sputtered a little out of the hole.
However, I Just got back from an evening on the water hoopnetting for lobster and the motor ran perfectly fine and it did not hesitate one bit. Looks like the Quickleen did it's job!
Thanks to all for the great advice. It saved me $1700 that the dealer wanted to charge me!
Oh, lobstering wasn't bad either, I caught five keepers. All in all, it was a good night. |
mike
Advanced Member
Username: hondadude
Post Number: 244
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, November 12, 2009 - 11:10 pm: |
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Ben,
Thanks for the feedback. It is good to hear a success story...on fixing your engine...as well as catching lobster.
Be safe out there... |
Sean Gilligan
Member
Username: equinox
Post Number: 25
Registered: 04-2009
| | Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 11:34 am: |
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Ben,
Thanks for the update/feedback.
I'll have to decide between Sea Foam and Quickclean, but I'll run it through my engine in the Spring.
Sean |
JUST-IN-TIME
Senior Member
Username: justintime
Post Number: 7086
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 11:44 am: |
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ben
my buddy is down south where u are
great tech also and very good price
hit me up if you want his number |
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