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Message |
    
Eric C. Hinton
Member
Username: echinton
Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Monday, October 05, 2009 - 03:35 pm: | 
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Purchased a new 2008 15 hp Honda kicker and upon initial checkout, the cooling system worked fine. A month later (after I ran my main motor dry) I started the Honda and noticed no water spraying out the back. I was able to restart my main and once home placed the Honda in a garbage can of water and after starting, could not get any water to spray out the back indicator port.
I purchased a garden hose adapter and upon installation to the motor, everything appeared fine (water spraying out the back as well as water running out the lower unit intake ports) but after placing the lower unit back into the can of water, again could not get the water pump to draw water up into the motor or spray out the back. The motor sounds fine (no grinding or clanking sounds).
My suspicion is that the water pump is defective but is there a chance that a thermostat is to blame or perhaps a pump shaft or gear being broken. How can I tell (for certain) what is wrong without sending the motor back to the dealer or tearing the motor apart? |
Jon
Member
Username: fisho65
Post Number: 32
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Monday, October 05, 2009 - 04:53 pm: |
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Sounds like water pump impeller may be defective.
When running the motor on the garden hose, you are forcing water into the cooling system under tap pressure, but when running the motor with the leg submersed ( normal operation ) the impeller can not do what it is designed to do, and that is suck water in, and pump it through the cooling system. Impeller replacement is a simple process and should not need the services of your dealer. |
W D Neal
Advanced Member
Username: chawk_man
Post Number: 241
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Monday, October 05, 2009 - 06:12 pm: |
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Nine times out of ten, you have a blockage in the pee hole tube, or further up stream. It's a favorite nesting site for mud dappers and other critters. Clear the hose going to the pee hole with a wire. Then test. If still no joy, start working backwards clearing water lines water passages. Seriously doubt it's the water pump impeller on that new of an engine. But possible. |
mike
Advanced Member
Username: hondadude
Post Number: 171
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Monday, October 05, 2009 - 08:30 pm: |
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I am with W D on this. Try to clear the pee hole out. If you have compressed air, blowing back into the hole after you have cleaned it out with a wire (paper clip works good) will help.
The impeller is probably good unless you tried to start the motor (even for a couple of seconds without water).
Water will not necessarily always come out of the back.
The thermostat should not keep the motor from coming out the pee hole. If you want to see if the impeller is pumping, remove the two bolts (10mm) from the thermostat cover and pull the thermostat. Run the motor and see if any water comes out there, if not, then it is probably the impeller or a major blockage somewhere between there and the impeller.
The good news is if your motor starts to overheat, the heat sensor will turn it off. |
Eric C. Hinton
Member
Username: echinton
Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 08, 2009 - 01:22 am: |
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This all sounds like good advice and I will remove the thermostat to see if there is water. I'm skeptical that the pee hole is plugged because I was able to get water out of it when the garden hose was connected. Still, I'll poke at it with a wire before the thermostat comes out. Will let you know what happens. |
Tony Delio
Senior Member
Username: tonyob
Post Number: 1616
Registered: 05-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, October 10, 2009 - 02:08 pm: |
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When you say that you ran the motor dry does that mean without water?
It sounds like you need to pull the lower unit and work on the water pump. |
Eric C. Hinton
Member
Username: echinton
Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 15, 2009 - 11:07 pm: |
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What I meant to say was that I ran my main motor dry “of fuel.” The gas was old and I was trying to burn as much of it off before refilling my tank. I actually ran out of gas at a very critical moment in a channel with a 163’ dragger driving down the same channel. I switched tanks and got the motor started again but not before discovering the problem with the Honda kicker.
Anyway, I removed the pump and it is totaled! See picture. The impeller is chewed up and the pump housing has evidence of heat damage. I showed the engineer of the boat I work on the parts and he noted that he’d never seen such a torn up impeller before and wondered what I did to it.
Truth be told, I purchased the motor brand new, hooked up the water muffs and tested the motor for about 5 minutes with water running through it. I then hung it on my boat and fished all summer without ever starting the Honda (I have a 21’ Bayliner). When I needed it most (to get out of the way of the dragger, or getting washed up on the rocks), it didn’t work which is sad because I purchased a “Honda” thinking that it was the best outboard there was. Now I see that they are no different than the others.
To add insult to injury, I contacted the business that I purchased the motor from because the motor is still under warranty. They offered to look at it but would not help in shipping costs (I live in Unalaska and would have to mail the motor back to Anchorage to have it looked at). Shipping charges alone would cost me $350.00. Furthermore, the business I bought it from, Alaska Mining and Diving, declined to help with replacement of any bad parts that I might find because their mechanics did not do the job. I understand that they are in the business to make money but now I’m stuck with $350.00 in shipping costs or that same amount in parts if I do the work myself. Sometimes you just can’t win. …And it was a brand new motor!
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Marlinmike
Member
Username: marlinmike
Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 12:11 pm: |
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This brings up a good point. Can you run the engine with it hooked up to the garden hose adapter without worrying about drying up and frying the impeller? |
Eric C. Hinton
Member
Username: echinton
Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 16, 2009 - 03:24 pm: |
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Good question. The owner's manual says to use the garden hose adapter that hooks up to the motor. However, they don't supply you with one when you buy the motor. I used the muffs hooked up to the intake port on the lower unit when I first tested the motor so perhaps it was my fault for not buying a garden hose adapter prior to starting the motor the first time. I have since purchased a garden hose adapter and water runs out the bottom intake port when the hose is turned on. Thing is, it also shoots out the back pee hole even when the motor is not running so the only way to tell for certain that the impeller or pump is bad, is by sinking the lower unit into a garbage can full of water or placing your boat in the water and running it that way. ...What a pain, but I'm wiser for it now. |
mike
Advanced Member
Username: hondadude
Post Number: 197
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 09:02 pm: |
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The impeller looks like it was run dry as some point in time.
You can run }the motor with a set of "ear muffs" on the intake on the lower unit. You have to be sure that it fits very tightly. They also tend to slip off from the vibration and if the water is turned on too much. If the motor starts sucking air, it can easily destroy the impeller.
I see many of these where the customers finally admit that they started the motor for only a couple of seconds in their driveway without water, so they would be sure it would start when they get to the water.
I am not sure what the prices are in Alaska, but the complete water pump rebuild kit is less than $100. The repair is easy enough to do yourself, especially if you have a manual.
Be sure to remove the thermostat and backflush the system with a garden hose to remove any pieces of impeller that may have gone up the water tube. |
Marlinmike
Member
Username: marlinmike
Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 11:26 am: |
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So, I ask the question again - I'm sure someone knows the answer to this one:
Can you run the engine with it hooked up to the garden hose adapter without worrying about drying up and frying the impeller?
I'm not talking about running the engine with anything much more than an idle - just enough to dry up the carburetor. |
Bill Herzfeld
New member
Username: ribfan
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 01:07 pm: |
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Hi Mike, Not 100% sure about the smaller HP motors, but on the larger motors, 150 hp, the owner's manual is explicit not to run when hooked to the flush port connector.
Cleaning and Flushing
Do not run the motor when flushing
the motor with a garden hose or the
motor may be damaged.
I would check your manual, different hp may be different, but I doubt it.
Hope this helps.} |
mike
Advanced Member
Username: hondadude
Post Number: 198
Registered: 03-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 01:22 pm: |
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I agree with Bill. The owner's manual for the new 15Hp says that you should not run the motor when using the hose adapter to the flushing port.
That port connects near the thermostat and the impeller will not get the water it needs to keep from tearing itself up.
When in doubt, always check the owner's manual. |
Eric C. Hinton
Member
Username: echinton
Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 01:44 pm: |
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Bill, yup, your right. It's right there in the flushing with a honda garden hose adapter, "Do not run the engine." I never saw that. And as the only proceedure for flushing otherwise is to place the lower unit in a container of water, I would suppose that using the muffs is a bad idea too. ...how could something so simple become so easily complicated! |
Bill Herzfeld
New member
Username: ribfan
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 02:56 pm: |
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I've used muffs on all of my larger engines, from 25 hp, 90 hp to the current 150 hp with out any problem. As Mike said, make sure the fit is tight enough so the motor gets a good supply of water.
I do have a 3 hp 'rude that is easier to just stick in a barrel. |
W D Neal
Advanced Member
Username: chawk_man
Post Number: 248
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 02:58 pm: |
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Actually, that goes for almost all outboards - Mercury, Yamaha, Evinrude, etc. Do not run engine when using flushing port. Most flushing ports push the water in the opposite direction from what the engine's water pump does. |
Marlinmike
Member
Username: marlinmike
Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 07:49 pm: |
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Makes sense - how would the water go through the water pump if the impeller wasn't turning? In other words - if the water is going into the garden hose adapter and coming out the pee tube it would have to bypass the impeller if it wasn't turning. If that is the case, then is it fair to assume that flushing the engine using the garden hose adapter isn't flushing the salt out of the impeller and/or water pump housing? That being said I think I'm going to use the garbage can flush or ear muffs - especially for the annual winterzier. |
miki n
New member
Username: miki425
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2009
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 06:03 pm: |
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Flushing with the adaptor and the motor off will only clean out the most important part which is the outboard head/engine. The pratical use of it comes when the boat is on water, so you use the garden adaptor and still maintain a good fresh water cleaning of the motor head while its on water. |
