| Author |
Message |
    
Kevin Robinson
New member
Username: kevo
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 08:22 pm: | 
|
Newbie here, and my world just went up in smoke literally and I need therapy so please indulge me. I've been restoring a 81' 21ft Robalo with a 96 Ocean Pro 150 for several months. The boat hadn't been ran in several years and with some tender care and fogging the engine for days before turning over I got the engine running. The engine had the VRO already removed and I insured I had good flow through the jets on each carb. I had it running real good in the driveway for weeks while redoing the boats electrical system and installing a new console. Well this last Sunday was time to take it back in the water. The boat looked good and ran fine and jumped right up on plan and I was being gentle with her. After about 15 minutes of running at half throttle I starting loosing rpm's and subsequent horsepower and started hearing a knocking noise on the starboard side of the motor. I shut her down and got towed back in. I ran a compression test and had 100 to 115 pounds of compression except on the middle cylinder on starboard side (only 28) and my project came to a screeching halt. I'm basically wondering if this motor is worth a complete rebuild and if this is something that can be done with patience in a normal garage. I love working on motors but this may be over my head. Any suggestions or tips on what my next step may be would be greatly appreciated. |
jamie campbell
Advanced Member
Username: outboard_doctor
Post Number: 399
Registered: 02-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2009 - 08:42 pm: |
|
Kevin there are some special tools which you will not have...you have to lift this engine off the trunk housing and place it on a bench.
Removing carbies and most of the electrics is not a problem...however getting the flywheel wheel off maybe...striping it down is not hard.
So if you start doing this yourself...place the bolts and nuts belonging to a area in the same container etc. You will need alot of help....starting with a genuine manual, there are a few guys here on this forum who are omc trained mechanics who have the experience to help you through.
Weight up all your options and see which one fits your budget. |
Gerard Jones
Member
Username: jonesg
Post Number: 17
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 12:44 pm: |
|
See if the factory manual is available here, if not try www.outboardbooks.com
You'll need an engine hoist, get a used one off craigslist and a flywheel puller from autozone, buy hardened bolts from ace hardware for the puller(they have the 6 points on the head) , the rest is basic wrenching. |
Andrew Mackhrandilal
Member
Username: nymack66
Post Number: 100
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 01:20 pm: |
|
First of all sorry for your misfortunes, I basally suffered the same so I share your pain, hang in there you will see the light if so speak.
Agreed the the previous posts, Check ebay for a rebuild kit and get a OEM manual you be up and running in no time.
There is no substitute for enjoying the pleasure of hard work. |
Kevin Robinson
New member
Username: kevo
Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 08:34 pm: |
|
Update! I decided to try and tackle this rebuild myself. I bought a engine hoist from harbor freight for $129 and got the power head off. For once everything went fairly well. I got the block stripped down and I found the #3 cylinders rings stuck. All but one cylinder had a least one ring stuck. I'm going 30 over pistons and I got my parts from powerhead exchange in Tampa, FL. Talk to Vaughn he was very helpful.
If there's any outboard mechanics with any tips on the rebuild I'd greatly appreciate it! |
william g moore jr
Advanced Member
Username: william_m
Post Number: 227
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 08:48 pm: |
|
You need to find out why those rings seized up. The book should show you the assembly. Your engine should run like a champ. More fun than a barrel of monkeys. Keep us informed. |
Andrew Mackhrandilal
Advanced Member
Username: nymack66
Post Number: 139
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 08:55 pm: |
|
Very good, I just brought a short block from Vaughn he is nice guy for sure. Post pictures of your project its very helpful in the decision process from miles away. Use photobucket and add the links to this blog.
For example I see the power head inside I let you know if you need a acid boil etc.
The most important thing to remember is replacing a power head is fixing the result of a failure not a failure in itself, you MUST find the under lying problem and fix it if not plan for failure again. Mine was a loose connecting rod bolt on #4 result in spun bearing and seize engine.
Question what was your problem ?
Good luck and keep us posted. |
Kevin Robinson
New member
Username: kevo
Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 10:14 pm: |
|
I suspect the reason for my problem is that the engine set up for about 5 years after a rebuild. The previous owner feel ill and never ran it. I suspect the rings got rusty. Only one cylinder (#1) showed any signs of wear. The crank, rod's & bearings show no signs of overheating. I just rebuilt all the carbs and I should be getting the block back from the machine shop on Friday. I just hope I can get it back together right. I will take some photo's in the next day or two and post my progress. Thanks for the words of encouragement. |
Joe Reeves
Senior Member
Username: joereeves
Post Number: 7554
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 10:31 pm: |
|
Although you mentioned that fuel flowed thru the carb jets properly........
Sitting that length of time, the carburetors are surely fouled somewhat.
Be sure to dismantle, clean thoroughly, and rebuild all carburetors with complete carburetor kits to avoid a powerhead failure repeat.
Fouled carburetors result in a lean running (improper lubicated) engine..... piston damage etc. |
Kevin Robinson
Member
Username: kevo
Post Number: 4
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 11:10 pm: |
|
Here's a picture of one of the pistons showing the rings stuck basically all but one had at least one ring stuck. Additionally I found an excessive amount of RTV on the heads. In fact most of the small water ports were plugged with RTV.  |
Kevin Robinson
Member
Username: kevo
Post Number: 5
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 11:16 pm: |
|
I got the block back from the machine shop and got the pistons installed and the crankshaft in tonight. Man getting those main barrings to line up with the pin was the worst thing about it. So far so good I haven't broke anything and everthing is going together like the manual says. Tomorrow flywheel and carbs. |
Kevin Robinson
Member
Username: kevo
Post Number: 6
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 07:43 pm: |
|
I've got everything put back together and I'm wondering if I should go for a start. I do have a simple question! Do I need to do any type of timing or anything? Is it as simple as just putting everything back in their original position. I found tdc and place my pointer, but there's got to be more right? |
jwbmarine
Senior Member
Username: jwbmarine
Post Number: 4622
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 07:51 pm: |
|
u should be ,ok...however,....a 5000 rpm timing check,is a MUST.....fr now on,u need to do a 'de-carb'...either by solution,in fuel tank,"preferably"..or a quick,shock treatment,'less desirable'but functional.... |
Doug Selbee
Advanced Member
Username: daselbee
Post Number: 317
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 09:28 am: |
|
Don't forget to double oil...25:1 is the recommended break in oil ratio.
Search "break in". There are many posts on the procedure. |
Kevin Robinson
Member
Username: kevo
Post Number: 7
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 08:23 pm: |
|
Thanks for the responses but I don't do a 5k timing initially do I? All the research I've done on break in period say not to go over 3k.
I will definately do double oil as suggested. |
Doug Selbee
Advanced Member
Username: daselbee
Post Number: 320
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 08:52 pm: |
|
When you do your link and sync (which should be mandatory after a rebuild) you will set the WOT 5000 rpm timing statically.
There is a famous post by Joe Reeves that is widely accepted to be the best way to statically set your WOT timing. Someone will chime in and post a link to it, maybe even Joe himself!!! Be sure to disable "Quickstart" or the timing settings will be off.
As you break it in, you will run at WOT for short bursts.
I would have a timing light with you on those runs, and check it then, while on the water.
Also, be very familiar with the adjustment and workings of that particular setting, so that you can make any required changes right there, re-checking as needed. Get it set once, and it's done.
By the way, it looks like you are doing a fine job on this, from looking at the pics, and reading your posts. Sure is a pretty cylinder.... |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3938
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 09:17 pm: |
|
Timing of this engine is not done at 5000RPM, but 'static'(engine not running) with the assistance of the 'engine analyzer'. |
Kevin Robinson
Member
Username: kevo
Post Number: 8
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 09:55 pm: |
|
Ahhhh "static" feeling a little silly at the moment. Hopefully someone will post to a thread. Off I go looking for it. Unfortunately I can't get my hands on a analyzer.
Thanks so much for the tips. This weekend is the day! Fish On or rebuild up in smoke!! |
Kevin Robinson
Member
Username: kevo
Post Number: 9
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 10:07 pm: |
|
Here's a couple more photos of somewhat the finished product although still in two halves.
 |
Kevin Robinson
Member
Username: kevo
Post Number: 10
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 10:08 pm: |
|
2nd halve
 |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3940
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 10:55 pm: |
|
On Your engine it is an optical sensor triggering the power-pack. Normally the PP is activated when the 'beam' is cut off, but at quick-start it is activated when the beam 'opens'.
To set the max timing, the 'engine analyzer' activates the optical sensor, the timing wheel is set at the specified timing advance after the arrow have been synced to TDC. Then the 'HIGH' tab on the optical sensor is moved until light turns out in the analyzer, which is when the beam is 'closed'. In principle similar to 'Joe's' description of the 'old' system, but You need the analyzer to find out when the light beam is 'closed'.
It may in emergency be done with a timing light and running engine, but be careful that the blinks from the timing light does not cause false signals into the optical sensor. |
Gerard Jones
Member
Username: jonesg
Post Number: 18
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 11:17 pm: |
|
http://www.maxrules.com/fixomcoisignition.html
with a CDI power pack you don't need the analyser.
"A breakthrough at CDI Electronics has allowed the use of microprocessor digital control circuits to handle the timing, QuikStart, S.L.O.W., rev limiter and data logging inside the power pack. This allows the timing to be set using a timing light, remote starter, spark gap tester, piston stop tool and a jumper wire.
With these new digital power packs, you disconnect the port temperature switch/sensor leads and use a jumper wire to short the tan temperature sensor wire to engine ground. Once you have verified the timing pointer using a piston stop tool (or a dial indicator), connect all spark plug wires to a spark gap tester, and connect a remote starter to the engine and a timing light to the No.1 spark plug wire.
When you crank the engine over with the remote starter and check the timing, you will notice the timing is set to approximately 4°- 6° ATDC (after top dead center). By advancing the throttle all the way and rechecking the timing for WOT (wide open throttle), you should see approximately 19° - 20° BTDC (before top dead center). Without this timing feature built into the power pack, you would not be able to easily set the timing for idle or WOT without the Johnson/Evinrude optical diagnostic tool.
Another nice features allowed by the digital circuitry include the ability to compensate for a bad temperature switch, a smoother rev limit, customized rev limiters and special timing curves." |
jwbmarine
Senior Member
Username: jwbmarine
Post Number: 4664
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 07:11 am: |
|
yep,...i guess i did not notice exact eng,....ign analyzer is,the correct method......u set both idle and hs timing,w/this tool....sorry for the confusion... |
Morten Ringvold
Senior Member
Username: haffiman37
Post Number: 3943
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 07:46 am: |
|
For 'idle' You do not need the tool, only the boat launched . engine running at idle in gear. Then adjust the 'Low' tab to get desired idle. |
jwbmarine
Senior Member
Username: jwbmarine
Post Number: 4665
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 08:52 am: |
|
true...but,since i have the tool hooked up,..i always set to specified idle timing per the service manual,and go fr there. |
tigershark
Member
Username: tigershark
Post Number: 21
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 09:26 pm: |
|
Hey Congrats on tackling a project of this magnitude all by yourself. Hats of to you, I'm nowhere near ready to take on a project like that, but someday.
Great Job and GoodLuck.
PS. Take a kicker motor with you for safety on the maiden voyage. |
Tony
Member
Username: tonyaus
Post Number: 25
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 05:08 am: |
|
Congrats on a job well done.
Does anyone have the part no. of the OMC optical dignostic tool?? |
jwbmarine
Senior Member
Username: jwbmarine
Post Number: 4679
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 07:21 am: |
|
that lil gadget,..cost me 350.00 5 yrs ago..if u really want it,..i'll look it up for u,.just send me an email so i rem...i'm hm now. |
Kevin Robinson
Member
Username: kevo
Post Number: 12
Registered: 06-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 09:27 pm: |
|
OK! Got the motor back together with help from my buddy Tom and got it remounted on my Robalo. Doubled the oil drove it around to make sure it mixed good in my tank and went for a start and she came to life on the second try. Yeah! I ran it for only 2 minutes then shut it down for about 5 minutes, started it again for 3 minutes and everything seemed to be ok? She idled fairly well with want seemed to be a suttle run up of RPM's to about 1400 from time to time then settle back to 1000-1100. I'm worried about my next step I don't know exactly how to break this in and set the WOT. Can I do this simply with a timing light. I've read so many things I thoroughly confused.
SO CLOSE!!! |
Andrew Mackhrandilal
Advanced Member
Username: nymack66
Post Number: 152
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Monday, July 20, 2009 - 12:12 pm: |
|
Send me a PM with your email address I will email you some instructions Power Head Exchange sent me.
I did everything like you did, timing I took it to the Dealer cost 120 dollars, they place it on a Dyno and set the timing. You can with a timing light on the Lake but be careful. |
